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Dulak  
#41 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:45:38 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
You're right Cheesey. 5 INTs in 2 games. Those were big. If we could take 3 of those back, maybe we are 7-3 right now, instead of 5-5.

I'm not saying Flynn is good, healthy, able to make all the throws. Just that he knows the system far better than Tolzien, and has guided this Packers team to a win before. We essentially have to win out to make the playoffs. Sustaining another loss due to freakish INTs is not going to do it. We need a QB who can play a very careful game back there, with all of the chips on the line. Flynn has won a National Championship, and backed up a Super Bowl winner. I simply trust Flynn to get the job done at this point more than I do Tolzien.

I do believe both Flynn and Tolzien can win against MIN on Sunday. However, the following week v. DET might be another thing altogether. Given that, I would rather have Flynn have this MIN game to get into some kind of groove to better prepare for that Thanksgiving Day game in DET. Again, we have to win out.

This staff clearly likes Tolzien for this week better. Maybe the kid can do it. I have my doubts though after the way all of our plays were telegraphed to the NYG defense prior to the snap. They knew exactly what we were going to do. How far was Tolzien able to work in the progressions? What kind of adjustments was he able to make at the line of scrimmage? The kid has been on just the Practice Squad since Sept 2nd. Signed to the roster Nov. 6th. That was TWO WEEKS AGO! That is not a lot of time to know the system. Flynn has been an integral part of the Packers system for 4 solid years, 2008-20012, in the QB meeting room, competing for roster spots, backing up Rodgers, etc. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.


I agree - ok ok Tolzien is new and wed like him to be a good backup; but like play2win said 5 INTs in 2 games killed it for us. Thats game over; Just like running backs need ball security else we lose games - same goes with QBs. Its great he can throw bombs; but that wont help if the other team is scoring more due to our INTs.

Remember when the giants were the worst team in the NFL ... we lost to them ... now the vikings ... and then lions ... got some peeps coming over for thanksgiving here in the UK Id at least like to show them a team that isnt going to suck that bad ... I dont want to have to say "normally we would of won this game but blah blah blah".
nerdmann  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:48:23 AM(UTC)
Dulak said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree - ok ok Tolzien is new and wed like him to be a good backup; but like play2win said 5 INTs in 2 games killed it for us. Thats game over; Just like running backs need ball security else we lose games - same goes with QBs. Its great he can throw bombs; but that wont help if the other team is scoring more due to our INTs.

Remember when the giants were the worst team in the NFL ... we lost to them ... now the vikings ... and then lions ... got some peeps coming over for thanksgiving here in the UK Id at least like to show them a team that isnt going to suck that bad ... I dont want to have to say "normally we would of won this game but blah blah blah".


We lost to them, because Mike wouldn't let Tolzien throw past the "9 men in the box." Why do you think that JPP interception happened?

It wasn't on Tolzien, that was on Mike.
sschind  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:06:32 PM(UTC)
Cheesey said: Go to Quoted Post
Hazer...you ask why? Because we have seen what
Tolzien can do, and are not sure he
can win for us.
What have we to lose ?


What have we to lose? How about a game and a possible shot at the playoffs. We are not sure Flynn can win for us either. Just because he played out of his mind in one game a couple of years ago does not mean he can do it again especially when he hasn't done anything close to it since. Not that he would have to play out of his mind to beat the vikings but I think Tolzien can do just as well.



steveishere  
#44 Posted : Thursday, November 21, 2013 6:10:38 AM(UTC)
Flynn lost the first game and a half he played for us as well. He didn't throw 5 INTs but he did have some really bad INTs with 1 being a pick 6 in a game we lost by 4.
Zero2Cool  
#45 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:30:18 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
No way. Tolzien is the man.


Knew that was bogus when you said it too.
nerdmann  
#46 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:33:48 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Knew that was bogus when you said it too.


Tolzien had his shot. Now Flynn is the man. He's earned it.

Tolzien still has developmental potential, but Flynn looks like his arm is just fine. Loved the moxie on that 4th down play to go with the hard count!
beast  
#47 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:40:38 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
It is a lot easier to come in and play in replacement of Rodgers, when you are throwing to Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley. Than when you come in missing 2 of the top 5 receiving options and missing one or two starting Olineman.


True... but you also have to factor in Eddie Lacy and the running game. Which helps currently compared to the past.


As far as Flynn against the Lions in the past, I say people overlook the biggest two factors in that game. 1) When healthy the Lions DBs were VERY bad. 2) The Lions were missing their two 2 DBs due to injury that game and the guys starting on the Lions that game were horrible as starters.



Last game against the Lions, they ran a lot of wide 9 defense, which is strong with pass rush and weak in run defense putting a lot on the shoulders of their DTs.

Packers won and their new running game won that battle.

It will be interesting to see if they try that again or not. Or what new thing they try. I kind of hope they go to the wide 9 again, because if gives the Packers OL a chance of running the ball on those DTs.

Either way the Packers have to stop the Lions offense some how.
Cheesey  
#48 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:53:41 PM(UTC)
Flynn showed he can move the team. He has
the expierience to at least give us a chance.
That said, I hope Aaron Rodgers can play. We have a
legitimate chance to stay in the playoff
hunt and need a win against the Lions.
steveishere  
#49 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:19:02 PM(UTC)
I was wrong about Flynn. During the Raiders game earlier this year he played with 0 confidence which is understandable I guess and I was worried about his arm but when he got in today his confidence and leadership was obvious. The team rallied behind him. He didn't do anything too special out there besides that throw to Boykin but you can see a big difference between him and anyone else we've had in there as far as just directing and leading the team. At this point I'd be comfortable if Ted Thompson gave Flynn a decent sized back up contract to lock him up for future years. It would be nice to have a back up that's more gifted physically but that leadership isn't really something you can teach.
nerdmann  
#50 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:29:55 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I was wrong about Flynn. During the Raiders game earlier this year he played with 0 confidence which is understandable I guess and I was worried about his arm but when he got in today his confidence and leadership was obvious. The team rallied behind him. He didn't do anything too special out there besides that throw to Boykin but you can see a big difference between him and anyone else we've had in there as far as just directing and leading the team. At this point I'd be comfortable if Ted Thompson gave Flynn a decent sized back up contract to lock him up for future years. It would be nice to have a back up that's more gifted physically but that leadership isn't really something you can teach.


Yeah, lock him down.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#51 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 6:42:05 PM(UTC)
I also think Rodgers will be back for Detroit. If not, however, I think McCarthy will go with Flynn. Obviously the bad elbow rumors were wrong. The knock on Tolzien was they had to cut down the playbook, avoid the up tempo, etc. I think Tolzien has more long term ability, but in the short term, Flynn can help more.

Thus, instead of a long term deal with Flynn, I'd rather give Tolzien a chance to beat him out in camp next season.
DakotaT  
#52 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:15:53 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Tolzien had his shot. Now Flynn is the man. He's earned it.

Tolzien still has developmental potential, but Flynn looks like his arm is just fine. Loved the moxie on that 4th down play to go with the hard count!


Are you insane, that ball had so much dying quail in it, Uncle Si could have shot that one down.
DakotaT  
#53 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:19:58 PM(UTC)
Flynn is a very good backup QB option in our system though. And we should lock him up to a reasonable contract. He's already been overpaid by Seattle and Oakland, maybe we can get him for a reasonable price. But if the league continues to have major suckage at QB - all bets are off, and Flynn might be overpaid again.
Zero2Cool  
#54 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:10:05 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Are you insane, that ball had so much dying quail in it, Uncle Si could have shot that one down.


If arm strength was the tell all then B.J. Coleman would still be in a Packers uniform. A quarterback is vastly more than their strength of arm. Fact of the matter is with Matt Flynn at the helm, the offense is operated by someone who knows it in and out and has proven he can do so.

The Packers need efficiency from the QB, not someone who can chuck it 70 yards with a flick of their wrist. Besides, do you really think the Packers offensive line allows a QB time to throw it deep and utilize that arm strength? NO.

Methodically moving the chains is the type of offense we need and Matt Flynn can do that.
play2win  
#55 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:14:13 AM(UTC)
I'm just glad Flynn got some work in Sunday against MIN to better prepare for what I anticipate will be his start in DET. I can't imagine they would risk bringing Rodgers back early for that one if Flynn is able to run our offense. The team played to a different level once he came in, and he almost pulled out the win. I'll take the tie. Flynn did a great job being a system QB. He knew what to do, and he pretty much did what we needed to avoid the loss. Not a great arm, but he is smart and his 4 years with McCarthy and GB showed yesterday. Able to run the 2 minute offense without a single snap of it in practice. Remarkable, his command of that. Just what we needed to get back in the game, down 16 points in the 4th Q.

Now, let's see what he can do with a few days of prep as the #1.
nerdmann  
#56 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:27:52 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Are you insane, that ball had so much dying quail in it, Uncle Si could have shot that one down.


He underthrew one, but with the right mechanics he can get it downfield.
Dulak  
#57 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 5:43:35 PM(UTC)
Dulak said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree - ok ok Tolzien is new and wed like him to be a good backup; but like play2win said 5 INTs in 2 games killed it for us. Thats game over; Just like running backs need ball security else we lose games - same goes with QBs. Its great he can throw bombs; but that wont help if the other team is scoring more due to our INTs.

Remember when the giants were the worst team in the NFL ... we lost to them ... now the vikings ... and then lions ... got some peeps coming over for thanksgiving here in the UK Id at least like to show them a team that isnt going to suck that bad ... I dont want to have to say "normally we would of won this game but blah blah blah".


About freakin time we got a QB to play.

Granted flynn wasnt outstanding - but we were going nowhere fast again with tolzien at the helm. And we at least tied it up.



Laser Gunns  
#58 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:03:24 AM(UTC)
Arm strength is a very overrated value in QBs, accuracy and the ability to quickly read and react "correctly" is the most important.

Flynn can do that. Very well.

Besides, I think he acknowledged my "FLYNNING!" Sign I had at Seahawks TC last year. Or I like to think he did.

He's cool in my book.
dhazer  
#59 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2013 10:49:09 AM(UTC)
RajiRoar said: Go to Quoted Post
Arm strength is a very overrated value in QBs, accuracy and the ability to quickly read and react "correctly" is the most important.

Flynn can do that. Very well.

Besides, I think he acknowledged my "FLYNNING!" Sign I had at Seahawks TC last year. Or I like to think he did.

He's cool in my book.


So how did it work out starting Flynn against the Lions? It showed his weakness of no arm strength and how he locked in on 1 receiver. As I said in chat I think Zero could have played better at qb and they should have let Tolzein start the 2nd half. He would atleast run with the ball instead of stand there like a deer in headlights and get crushed by the defense.
GermanGilbert  
#60 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2013 11:11:01 AM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
It showed his weakness of no arm strength.....


No arm strength? Show me another QB that can throw 40% of his total passing yards in just one play [grin1]

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