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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:00:55 AM(UTC)
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I start this thread as a sequel or whatever to my blame Ted Thompson thread. Position by position, how do the Packers stack up against the rest of the league?

QB: Obviously in the top four along with Brady, Brees, and P. Manning. IMO, Rodgers is #1 even among those.

RB: Prior to this year, we were probably in the bottom ten, maybe bottom five. Now with Lacy, I would rank us top ten, maybe top five. Considering age, I can't think of any RB I'd rather have, although right now a few may be better. (I'd take Melvin Gordon over even Lacy, though).

WR: I said in the WR thread, we are probably top 8 or 10 - not higher than that because all our WRs are better because of Rodgers. Nelson might be top 5 or 6; Cobb might be top 10 or 12; Jones top 15 or 20.

TE: Assuming Finley is gone by injury/free agency or both going forward, I would think the Packers are in the lower half, maybe lower ten. There are a lot of decent TEs out there.

O-LINE: The Pits - that's not just a description of the job; It's a description of the quality of ours. Lower ten for sure, maybe lower five. Maybe it gets better if by some miracle, Sherrod plays like a first rounder next season. Bulaga has been adequate at best when healthy - NOT what you expect from a first rounder. Consider three things: 1. the way Aaron Rodgers and now his replacements NEVER get time, and basically have to run for their lives and 2. the way our running game even with Lacy can't do much of anything when not set up by passes - when they just have to line up and get the job done, they don't. 3. the way a lot of teams have rebuilt quality lines with apparent ease.

D-LINE: I see light at the end of the tunnel with Daniels, Datone Jones, and maybe Worthy, and hopefully moving Neal back there. We still are in the lower half, though, and with Raji and Pickett still playing the bulk of the snaps, we are bottom five - moving to mid-range if we lose the big fatties (keep Jolly, though).

OLB: Clay Matthews and Who? Matthews alone probably puts the Packers in the top half of the league. However, I'm getting less and less optimistic about Perry not being a bust. I certainly don't think he is the bookend for Matthews you would expect from a #1 pick.

ILB: Hawk has played better this season than in the past, and Brad Jones hasn't been as bad as I expected. Still, neither is anywhere near what you would call a "playmaker". I would say bottom ten overall.

CORNER: We may be better overall there than any time since the Lombardi era. Just the same, a lot of other teams have found good corners too these days. I'd put the Packers in the top ten. Top five? Maybe if Shields matures before Tramon fades too much and House continues to improve.

SAFETY: Disappointing is the best word. Burnett has been OK, but not quite what I was hoping. McMillian I had high hopes for but he has flopped. I kinda like Jennings, but he is just above minimum NFL-quality. I think Hyde will end up there, and maybe we draft somebody fairly high. For now, we are bottom ten.

PUNTER/KICKER: Masthay has been great; There seem to be a lot of great punters now, though, in the league. Crosby? Middle of the pack, I guess. At his best, there are at least 8 or 10 better kickers in the league, and he ain't always at his best. Combine the two, and I'd say top 10 or 12 in the league.

It's my contention that other than QB, the overall team is mid-range at best, maybe in the lower half. I'd be interested to read how those who think Ted Thompson is so great would rate the team position by position.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:06:17 AM(UTC)
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Offline GermanGilbert  
#3 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:19:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
WR: I said in the WR thread, we are probably top 8 or 10 - not higher than that because all our WRs are better because of Rodgers. Nelson might be top 5 or 6; Cobb might be top 10 or 12; Jones top 15 or 20.


Maybe I misunderstood you, but how can a team be ranked 8th to 10th if the 3rd guy on the team is in the top 15 to 20 in the league? That means your 3rd WR is better than the #1 guy of half of the NFL teams.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#4 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:31:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert Go to Quoted Post
Maybe I misunderstood you, but how can a team be ranked 8th to 10th if the 3rd guy on the team is in the top 15 to 20 in the league? That means your 3rd WR is better than the #1 guy of half of the NFL teams.


Good Point, but I think there are 8 - 10 teams around with at least as good a situation as the Packers have, all things considered.

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Offline wpr  
#5 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:34:44 AM(UTC)
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GB stacks up right in the middle at 15th.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#6 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:41:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Good Point, but I think there are 8 - 10 teams around with at least as good a situation as the Packers have, all things considered.



I would be interested in knowing your 8 teams as good as or better. Even with the Rodgers influence, I may have the Packers in the top 2.

Denver would be in the top 3. But if you discount the Pack for having Rodgers, doesn't the same argument work for Denver?

Offline QCHuskerFan  
#7 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:46:51 AM(UTC)
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QB- Top 3
RB- Top 10
WR- Top 3
TE- Middle
OL- Top 1/2 (#5 rushing and #5 passing team doesn't happen by accident)

DL- Bottom 1/2
LB- Middle
CB- Top 10 in potential, Bottom 5 in performance
S- Bottom 5-10

Specialists- Top 10
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#8 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:49:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I would be interested in knowing your 8 teams as good as or better. Even with the Rodgers influence, I may have the Packers in the top 2.

Denver would be in the top 3. But if you discount the Pack for having Rodgers, doesn't the same argument work for Denver?



Yeah, but Denver isn't in my top three. They are about equal to the Packers in WRs IMO.

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Offline DarkaneRules  
#9 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:20:44 AM(UTC)
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I just go by the eye test more often than not. My view of this team is that they are currently below average. Out of 32 teams, I would rank them around 15 - 20 area.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#10 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:21:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, but Denver isn't in my top three. They are about equal to the Packers in WRs IMO.



I would agree that they are about equal.

So who are your top 8?
Offline nerdmann  
#11 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:44:59 AM(UTC)
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Haha, Bulaga "adequate at best." lol
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Offline dhazer  
#12 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 5:12:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I would agree that they are about equal.

So who are your top 8?


Are you talking at this minute or when are all healthy?

1- Atlanta
2- Arizona
3- Chicago
4- Detroit
5 - Giants
6- Dallas
7- Bengals
8 - Packers
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#13 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:25:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
Are you talking at this minute or when are all healthy?

1- Atlanta
2- Arizona
3- Chicago
4- Detroit
5 - Giants
6- Dallas
7- Bengals
8 - Packers


One of my main definitions of quality is depth. The Packers, even without Rodgers and with 2 of the WR having missed games due to injury, have 4 WR with at least 29 catches. I will contend that we don't have a major#1 like Johnson, Fitzgerald, or Marshall.

Atlanta- Definitely top 5
Arizona- Only have 3 receivers in double digits. Maybe 8th?
Chicago- Their #4 receiver has 1 catch. This team only has 2 viable WR options. Not top 8 in my opinion.
Detroit- Again, a team with only 3 real options, but 1 may be the greatest ever.
Giants- Again, 3 pretty good options.
Dallas- 4 decent WR. Top 5, probably
Bengals- Only 3 WR with more than single digit catches.
Packers- A #1A in Nelson, 3 others that have more than 29 catches. Top 3-5

Denver- 3 WR with more than 55 catches. No #4, but most productive 3 WR in league. Top 5

Offline texaspackerbacker  
#14 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:58:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
Are you talking at this minute or when are all healthy?

1- Atlanta
2- Arizona
3- Chicago
4- Detroit
5 - Giants
6- Dallas
7- Bengals
8 - Packers


Sounds pretty reasonable. I posted this in the other thread earlier:

Lions, Cowboys, Bears, Bengals, maybe Saints, Cardinals, Texans, Niners, Ravens, Eagles - in addition to the Falcons and Broncos which somebody else mentioned.

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Offline steveishere  
#15 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:11:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Sounds pretty reasonable. I posted this in the other thread earlier:

Lions, Cowboys, Bears, Bengals, maybe Saints, Cardinals, Texans, Niners, Ravens, Eagles - in addition to the Falcons and Broncos which somebody else mentioned.



It might be reasonable if you guys would bother to back up what you are saying with some reasonable explanations instead of just saying shit and acting like your word is law. Come on then give us your list and some reasons to back it up.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#16 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:17:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
One of my main definitions of quality is depth. The Packers, even without Rodgers and with 2 of the WR having missed games due to injury, have 4 WR with at least 29 catches. I will contend that we don't have a major#1 like Johnson, Fitzgerald, or Marshall.

Atlanta- Definitely top 5
Arizona- Only have 3 receivers in double digits. Maybe 8th?
Chicago- Their #4 receiver has 1 catch. This team only has 2 viable WR options. Not top 8 in my opinion.
Detroit- Again, a team with only 3 real options, but 1 may be the greatest ever.
Giants- Again, 3 pretty good options.
Dallas- 4 decent WR. Top 5, probably
Bengals- Only 3 WR with more than single digit catches.
Packers- A #1A in Nelson, 3 others that have more than 29 catches. Top 3-5

Denver- 3 WR with more than 55 catches. No #4, but most productive 3 WR in league. Top 5



hahaha you can only throw to one receiver at a time. I can only dream how good Aaron Rodgers would be if we had one of those big three (make it four - the other Johnson is pretty damn good too - make it five, as Dez Bryant is outstanding also - make that six - I almost forgot A.J. Green). I'd put Jordy Nelson as a solid seventh behind that top six.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#17 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:21:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Haha, Bulaga "adequate at best." lol


Are you forgetting the way he played last year BEFORE the injury? Playing hurt? It was never admitted publicly.
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Offline dhazer  
#18 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:33:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
One of my main definitions of quality is depth. The Packers, even without Rodgers and with 2 of the WR having missed games due to injury, have 4 WR with at least 29 catches. I will contend that we don't have a major#1 like Johnson, Fitzgerald, or Marshall.

Atlanta- Definitely top 5
Arizona- Only have 3 receivers in double digits. Maybe 8th?
Chicago- Their #4 receiver has 1 catch. This team only has 2 viable WR options. Not top 8 in my opinion.
Detroit- Again, a team with only 3 real options, but 1 may be the greatest ever.
Giants- Again, 3 pretty good options.
Dallas- 4 decent WR. Top 5, probably
Bengals- Only 3 WR with more than single digit catches.
Packers- A #1A in Nelson, 3 others that have more than 29 catches. Top 3-5

Denver- 3 WR with more than 55 catches. No #4, but most productive 3 WR in league. Top 5



Well how can you go with we have a great receiving group because we have 4 guys with 29 catches, That is because of injuries. How many games has cobb and jones missed and if I remember right wasn't Jordy out a few games also. Btw I forgot Denver they would be #1 by far.

I made my list on what I would think would be tops with Rodgers at QB for any of them.

Granted Denver would be about the same but imagine teams like the Bengals and Arizona with Rodgers under center.


Also is it the players or the system maybe we should look no farther than Jennings going to Minnesota.

I also just thought of an honorable mention and thats the Seahawks. They could be scary Harvin,Rice, Tate and Baldwin
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#19 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:53:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
It might be reasonable if you guys would bother to back up what you are saying with some reasonable explanations instead of just saying sh!t and acting like your word is law. Come on then give us your list and some reasons to back it up.


Seems like almost everybody is concentrating on WR - which is obviously one of the Packers strengths. How about the other positions where Ted Thompson has been so delinquent in drafting decent talent - O-Line, D-Line, LB other than Matthews, etc.?

Since you asked about WRs, I would contend that having a stud #1 go to WR is more important. Also, performance against us would indicate there is a premium on size (no "size of the Johnson" jokes intended hahaha). I would also put a premium on WRs who do the job with lesser QBs instead of vice versa - Bears, Cardinals, maybe Bengals and Cowboys.

Is that enough explanation? Now maybe you can reciprocate about how Ted Thompson is not to blame for the poor quality personnel in a lot of other positions.

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Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:57:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Are you forgetting the way he played last year BEFORE the injury? Playing hurt? It was never admitted publicly.


Bulaga's fine. He's very good. Then you got Sitton and Lang, both playing VERY well this year. EDS to me is a good backup. He's playing "adequately."

How many teams could be down to their 5th tackle and still be in the race? Please.
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Offline dhazer  
#21 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 8:06:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Bulaga's fine. He's very good. Then you got Sitton and Lang, both playing VERY well this year. EDS to me is a good backup. He's playing "adequately."

How many teams could be down to their 5th tackle and still be in the race? Please.


How many teams are this soft that they are injured all the time?


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Offline dhazer  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 8:08:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
How many teams are this soft that they are injured all the time?


I think I figured it out Favre after he was forced out of Green Bay by Ted Thompson went to a witch Doctor down their in the bayou and had a spell put on the Packers :)



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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 8:15:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Bulaga's fine. He's very good. Then you got Sitton and Lang, both playing VERY well this year. EDS to me is a good backup. He's playing "adequately."

How many teams could be down to their 5th tackle and still be in the race? Please.


You didn't address the shoddy way Bulaga played last year. As for the guards and center, I ask, what happened literally every time we lined up and tried to run without deception - even with extra blockers - the inverted wishbone, etc. As good as Lacy is, he got nowhere. That's on the O-Line, and that's on TT. And even worse, pass blocking - it's almost a crime to have a QB like Rodgers and protect him so poorly. Yeah, he throws on the run like nobody else, but he shouldn't have to all the time.

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Offline steveishere  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 5:30:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
hahaha you can only throw to one receiver at a time. I can only dream how good Aaron Rodgers would be if we had one of those big three (make it four - the other Johnson is pretty damn good too - make it five, as Dez Bryant is outstanding also - make that six - I almost forgot A.J. Green). I'd put Jordy Nelson as a solid seventh behind that top six.


Any WR usually only gets 5-10 passes a game. With QBs throwing 30-40 passes that makes 20-30 passes going to another WR. So yeah you can only throw to 1 at a time but even Calvin Johnson only accounts for 30ish % of his teams passing. The rest is on those other guys that you seem to be completely discounting.
Offline steveishere  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 5:39:25 AM(UTC)
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Bulaga had 1 real bad game last year (Throw in SF and IND and call it 3 total). In the 8 games he played in besides SEA he gave up 2 sacks. He wasn't as bad on the season as some people say. He's significantly better than Barclay at RT and probably better than Bakhtiari at LT. If anything he would probably have made our running ability even better. Losing him was a big loss don't downplay it so much.

Also, with Bulaga starting if the other T gets hurt then right now either Bakhtiari or Barclay is playing instead of Newhouse and I don't have to tell you how big of a difference that is.
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