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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:12:54 AM(UTC)
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JSOnline wrote:
Detroit — One ball fell five yards shy of a double-covered James Jones. Another hung high and late to Jarrett Boykin.

He gift-wrapped an interception. He was a human punching bag throughout.

There will be no $25 million contracts parlayed from this performance.

But do not make Matt Flynn the scapegoat for this 40-10 debacle in Detroit. And don't point the finger at Scott Tolzien, at Seneca Wallace, at any quarterback the Packers start. For all the weekly support coach Mike McCarthy has given each player — Wallace's experience, Tolzien's deep ball, Flynn's no-huddle acumen — they've been in a desperate, long-shot situation all along.

The chaos we see now at quarterback — two touchdowns, seven interceptions, zero wins in five games — began in the off-season.
Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:00:27 AM(UTC)
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Bullshit.

Ted got Mike the guys Mike wanted. Mike had Harrell, whom he supposedly liked last year.

Mike had Coleman. Mike's plan was for Coleman to develop and replace Harrell. Mike did not successfully develop Coleman. That's not Ted's fault.

So Ted went out and got some guys. Wallace turned out to be a lying little bitch who punked out in his first start, but Tolzien looks like a real player. He's just gonna need some seasoning, which is normal for a #3.

As for Flynn, he's had one shitty game. He had TWO practices before it, and was under a constant jailbreak by the Loins Dline. Remember, Flynn was widely regarded as one of the top backups in the league. He probably still is that.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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musccy on 12/4/2013(UTC)
Offline musccy  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:15:29 AM(UTC)
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I generally agree with what you said, Nerd, plus...

Flynn and co. can't play NT, S, MLB, or TE nor are they responsible for teams staying on the field the closing 9 minutes of games when the Packers needed the ball back. A.R's injury has shown us how much of a band aid he has been for this team, smoke screening its many deficiencies.

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DoddPower on 12/4/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 12/4/2013(UTC)
Offline dhazer  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:18:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Bullshit.

Ted got Mike the guys Mike wanted. Mike had Harrell, whom he supposedly liked last year.

Mike had Coleman. Mike's plan was for Coleman to develop and replace Harrell. Mike did not successfully develop Coleman. That's not Ted's fault.

So Ted went out and got some guys. Wallace turned out to be a lying little bitch who punked out in his first start, but Tolzien looks like a real player. He's just gonna need some seasoning, which is normal for a #3.

As for Flynn, he's had one shitty game. He had TWO practices before it, and was under a constant jailbreak by the Loins Dline. Remember, Flynn was widely regarded as one of the top backups in the league. He probably still is that.


top backup in the league regarded by who? Hell he got cut from 2 teams that are starting their #3 qbs. This is another one of those I want my guy type thing and I am sticking to it no matter what.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
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wpr on 12/4/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:28:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Bullshit.

Ted got Mike the guys Mike wanted. Mike had Harrell, whom he supposedly liked last year.

Mike had Coleman. Mike's plan was for Coleman to develop and replace Harrell. Mike did not successfully develop Coleman. That's not Ted's fault.

So Ted went out and got some guys. Wallace turned out to be a lying little bitch who punked out in his first start, but Tolzien looks like a real player. He's just gonna need some seasoning, which is normal for a #3.

As for Flynn, he's had one shitty game. He had TWO practices before it, and was under a constant jailbreak by the Loins Dline. Remember, Flynn was widely regarded as one of the top backups in the league. He probably still is that.


He had to have surgery for a torn abductor tendon, dumbass.
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wpr on 12/4/2013(UTC), DoddPower on 12/4/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:29:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
top backup in the league regarded by who? Hell he got cut from 2 teams that are starting their #3 qbs. This is another one of those I want my guy type thing and I am sticking to it no matter what.


The guy who gave him a 26m dollar contract?
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nerdmann on 12/4/2013(UTC)
Offline dhazer  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:32:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
The guy who gave him a 26m dollar contract?



I bet he don't any more lol I am sure Flynn was happier than shit to get the call from Green Bay. Another chunk of money he made from playing one great preseason game against the Lions.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline steveishere  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:35:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
I bet he don't any more lol I am sure Flynn was happier than shit to get the call from Green Bay. Another chunk of money he made from playing one great preseason game against the Lions.


doesn't change the fact that it happened and that Flynn was indeed regarded as one of the top back ups.
Offline dhazer  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:42:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
doesn't change the fact that it happened and that Flynn was indeed regarded as one of the top back ups.


I see you now use the word was as in past tense I thought you meant people still regard him as a top backup
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline steveishere  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:14:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
I see you now use the word was as in past tense I thought you meant people still regard him as a top backup


Nerdmanns post that you initially replied to used the word was.
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DoddPower on 12/4/2013(UTC)
Online wpr  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:21:38 AM(UTC)
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in a word- yes.

Quote:
When Thompson worked under former general manager Ron Wolf from 1992-'99, he watched Wolf select a quarterback in seven of eight drafts. Some, like Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer and Aaron Brooks, paid off handsomely. Others, like Ronnie McAda, Kyle Wachholz and Jay Barker, never panned out.

Regardless, Wolf was always willing to roll the dice at the game's most important position.

In Thompson's five drafts between 2009-'13, he selected just one quarterback — B.J. Coleman in the seventh round in 2012. That left the Packers without a parachute when Rodgers went down.



jsonline


I don't expect GB to draft a qb every year. I do expect them to pick one about every 3 years. And not just someone in the 7th round either. They can take a decent qb in the 5th and develop him over time. He will eventually move on which is why they need to keep drafting them.
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Offline play2win  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:31:13 AM(UTC)
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I'm not so sure about this. I would be more inclined to say Safety was our greatest need. Had we had a good one, or two, we might have beaten SF and CIN, and maybe another game since Rodgers went down, and we would still be leading the division.

For whatever reason, Ted neglected the FS position when it was a glaring need.
Online wpr  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:51:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I'm not so sure about this. I would be more inclined to say Safety was our greatest need. Had we had a good one, or two, we might have beaten SF and CIN, and maybe another game since Rodgers went down, and we would still be leading the division.

For whatever reason, Ted neglected the FS position when it was a glaring need.


Safety is a need as well. Ted can neglect more than one position at the same time.
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Offline play2win  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:55:28 AM(UTC)
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Not to rail on him, but a drafted player, or a FA or trade would have been very welcome. Banjo was a nice pickup.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:11:59 AM(UTC)
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The gigantic elephant in the room, of course, is virtually the whole rest of the team which Ted has been grossly deficient in building. Tolzien or Flynn would undoubtedly have been good enough if we had even and average O-Line and Defense.
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Offline nerdmann  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 2:25:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
The gigantic elephant in the room, of course, is virtually the whole rest of the team which Ted has been grossly deficient in building. Tolzien or Flynn would undoubtedly have been good enough if we had even and average O-Line and Defense.


If you keep repeating that, it won't make it true.

Even if you click your ruby slippers together.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:11:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
in a word- yes.




jsonline


I don't expect GB to draft a qb every year. I do expect them to pick one about every 3 years. And not just someone in the 7th round either. They can take a decent qb in the 5th and develop him over time. He will eventually move on which is why they need to keep drafting them.


But Ted did pick some other QBs the writer just used the years to make the biggest failure sell. Ted also pick Brian Brohm and Matt Flynn in 2008, but the quote chooses to put the cut-off after that year to try and make a point.
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Offline hardrocker950  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:33:44 PM(UTC)
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I only agree with this to an extent. The front office sent the previous backups on their way, and brought new guys in with limited time to prepare and learn.

With that said, I don't think Tolzien and Flynn are as bad as many think. Their lack of success also falls on the offensive line. The defense has not done them many favors either. Aside from the turnovers in Detroit, they have been giving up too many plays.

Remember that football is a team sport. You cannot simply blame one individual for a loss.
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buckeyepackfan on 12/5/2013(UTC), DoddPower on 12/5/2013(UTC)
Online wpr  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:17:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
But Ted did pick some other QBs the writer just used the years to make the biggest failure sell. Ted also pick Brian Brohm and Matt Flynn in 2008, but the quote chooses to put the cut-off after that year to try and make a point.


I guess you didn't understand the article. Stating GB drafted 2 QB back in 2008 is the same as drafting 1 every year or nearly every year is the same. It isn't.
It wasn't so much that he cut it off to slant the story it was to illustrate he hasn't done anything recently.
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Offline Dulak  
#20 Posted : Thursday, December 5, 2013 1:35:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
doesn't change the fact that it happened and that Flynn was indeed regarded as one of the top back ups.


- my comments are general comments and just piggy packing on your post Steve -

I do agree with the backup comment - but dont know whom is at fault - in previous posts it is suggested Mike McCarthy is more at fault preseason which IMO was a total flub-up.

preseason was just a bunch of dudes who wernt any good throwing the football around. I thought young might do a little better with time but then we hured some short dude 5'10 to play NFL QB with our pass first team.

bleh - it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that - that experiment wouldnt work -

so who knows maybe tolzien will turn into a decent QB someday - but we stuck him front and center and he threw 5 INTs ... he did. Flynn was the only guy I had any sort of confidence in but even this was minor because there was no time to practice.

If we are blaming the loss and the QB play on flynn alone - that is crazy. IMO flynn is at best a ok backup; but I havnt seen him play since he was last here; our Oline got decimated during that game; lacey had no game.

anyways ...

I do agree that our QB situation was one of the main reasons we lost - I was cringing all preseason when Mike McCarthy was 'trying to keep' harrel when he just sucked so bad and he did last year also. Reminded me of brohm - I mean whats the deal with I guess its Mike McCarthy and these lame QBs? ...
Offline nerdmann  
#21 Posted : Thursday, December 5, 2013 5:52:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I guess you didn't understand the article. Stating GB drafted 2 QB back in 2008 is the same as drafting 1 every year or nearly every year is the same. It isn't.
It wasn't so much that he cut it off to slant the story it was to illustrate he hasn't done anything recently.


People bitch when Ted "only uses the draft."

Then he brings in some free agents, and they bitch that he "didn't draft anybody."

Bitch bitch bitch.

Fact is, the defense has quit on the team.
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Offline nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Thursday, December 5, 2013 5:53:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dulak Go to Quoted Post
- my comments are general comments and just piggy packing on your post Steve -

I do agree with the backup comment - but dont know whom is at fault - in previous posts it is suggested Mike McCarthy is more at fault preseason which IMO was a total flub-up.

preseason was just a bunch of dudes who wernt any good throwing the football around. I thought young might do a little better with time but then we hured some short dude 5'10 to play NFL QB with our pass first team.

bleh - it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that - that experiment wouldnt work -

so who knows maybe tolzien will turn into a decent QB someday - but we stuck him front and center and he threw 5 INTs ... he did. Flynn was the only guy I had any sort of confidence in but even this was minor because there was no time to practice.

If we are blaming the loss and the QB play on flynn alone - that is crazy. IMO flynn is at best a ok backup; but I havnt seen him play since he was last here; our Oline got decimated during that game; lacey had no game.

anyways ...

I do agree that our QB situation was one of the main reasons we lost - I was cringing all preseason when Mike McCarthy was 'trying to keep' harrel when he just sucked so bad and he did last year also. Reminded me of brohm - I mean whats the deal with I guess its Mike McCarthy and these lame QBs? ...


Yeah, Tolzien threw INTs. Without having taken any reps in practice, with Mike making him run/throw predictable 1 yard passes into a stacked 9-man box.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the defense decided to concede victory.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#23 Posted : Thursday, December 5, 2013 7:58:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I guess you didn't understand the article. Stating GB drafted 2 QB back in 2008 is the same as drafting 1 every year or nearly every year is the same. It isn't.
It wasn't so much that he cut it off to slant the story it was to illustrate he hasn't done anything recently.


I did not say that drafting 2 QBs in 2008 was the same as drafting 1 every year. The fact is Ted had a guy he liked as a back-up 2008 a year he drafted 2 guys. The fact that the cut-off for the story is a year after he drafted 2 QBs to me suggests he is purposely ignoring it. Why not just say how many QBs he drafted in his whole tenure the same way he did with Wolf? I am not sure what we are trying to prove with drafting a QB every year anyway. We only won 1 SuperBowl with this approach.
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Online wpr  
#24 Posted : Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:57:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
I did not say that drafting 2 QBs in 2008 was the same as drafting 1 every year. The fact is Ted had a guy he liked as a back-up 2008 a year he drafted 2 guys. The fact that the cut-off for the story is a year after he drafted 2 QBs to me suggests he is purposely ignoring it. Why not just say how many QBs he drafted in his whole tenure the same way he did with Wolf? I am not sure what we are trying to prove with drafting a QB every year anyway. We only won 1 SuperBowl with this approach.


I didn't write the story. I don't know what he slant is. Ted did begin his tenor by drafting qbs. 4 in the first 4 years. Then quit. Only 1 in the next 5 years. I think the author was pointing out that he changed his philosophy. He should have mentioned the earlier years but his focus was on the more recent drafts and how that was different than Wolf. I think he should also have said the rules in the NFL have changed as well. Then again I don't know how much space he is allowed for the story. He could have said a lot of other things but probably didn't have time or space to do so.

Someone may say that there was no need to draft a qb when Rodgers is the qb for the team. I think his comparison was to say Wolf had Favre and he still drafted 7 qb in 9 years. Until 1999 (Aaron Brooks R4) he never drafted anyone higher than the 5th round yet ended up with a few decent (serviceable) qbs in Detmer, Brunell and Hasselbeck.

Personally I liked Ted having the flexibility to draft other positions than qb but he still can't neglect the position indefinitely. I have talked about FAs. I prefer the qb to come from the draft. Pick up one qb and keep him on the PS for 2-3 years before he gets bumped up to #2. Then stick someone else on the PS to develop. Unless Aaron goes down in the first year of the growth process someone will be on the team to back him up that has a 3-4 years in the system before he moves on like Flynn did.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#25 Posted : Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:27:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hardrocker950 Go to Quoted Post
I only agree with this to an extent. The front office sent the previous backups on their way, and brought new guys in with limited time to prepare and learn.

With that said, I don't think Tolzien and Flynn are as bad as many think. Their lack of success also falls on the offensive line. The defense has not done them many favors either. Aside from the turnovers in Detroit, they have been giving up too many plays.

Remember that football is a team sport. You cannot simply blame one individual for a loss.


WHAT????? Where did you ever get that idea from?

Obviously, you haven't been reading packershome GM geniuses posts for long!!!

Watch after EVERY loss or win for that matter, certain individuals will be pointed out and blamed for the loss, or blamed for the game being closer than it should have been, or get blamed for a game that happened 5 years ago, or get blamed for a future game, now, because our online geniuses CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE!!!!!

Now Get With The Program!!!!!!!!

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