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buckeyepackfan  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 2:53:06 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
I doubt anyone is panicking. So you don;t have to worry about that.

I thought there were suppose to be changes made after last season. If they did make changes they were not for the better.


I just always go back to the point of the season where The Packers were 5-2 and everyone was discussing whether they coud run the table, The Offense was clicking, The defense was playing well, even though some of the injuries had already started to happen.

The team all of a sudden didn't "forget" how to play ball, the coaches didn't "forget how to coach, The Organization itself didn't "forget" how to be successful.
There just comes a point where injuries cannot be overcome. The Packers hit that point when Rodgers went down then Walllace, then ect, ect ect.

My panic comment is "tounge in cheek" not a whole lot is going to happen until after early February.
PackFanWithTwins  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:06:26 PM(UTC)
It is much easier to be an elite team, when you are not paying your elite players the big money. Once you start dumping between 1/5 and 1/4 of your available money on two positions, there is less money left to pay the rest of the team. A few years ago we had what many considered the deepest receiving group, because of salary concerns we don't any longer.

Defensively I think we have been hurt by injuries of our young players coming in. Those young players have lost much time in what should have been their development years that they are behind the curve. Getting those players especially those up front to full speed and meeting their potential will be key for the next couple years. We need to be getting production out of these players before it is time to pay them.

With the players on the team now, I don't think we are far from being Elite again. Get decent improvement from D.Jones and Perry, with continued growth of Daniels, Boyd and production from Worthy return. Keep Shields along with Tramon, and grow Hyde, Hayward and House.

Offensively, improve the Oline and keep restocking the WR position, keep Quarless and grow Bostick, with Rodgers and Lacy that side of the ball should be OK.

If we can keep having our bad years be 1st round playoff loses, I can handle it.
wpr  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:30:03 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
I just always go back to the point of the season where The Packers were 5-2 and everyone was discussing whether they coud run the table, The Offense was clicking, The defense was playing well, even though some of the injuries had already started to happen.

The team all of a sudden didn't "forget" how to play ball, the coaches didn't "forget how to coach, The Organization itself didn't "forget" how to be successful.
There just comes a point where injuries cannot be overcome. The Packers hit that point when Rodgers went down then Walllace, then ect, ect ect.

My panic comment is "tounge in cheek" not a whole lot is going to happen until after early February.


Yes I know you were tongue in cheek. I was just giving it to you a little bit.

As far as being 5-2, like McGinn says with an elite QB like Rodgers any team can be 8-8. The play of Aaron hid the deficiencies of the first 7 games. They were there and came to light after his injury. After the injuries to other key players. Which means the organization payed lip serve to making changes.

Changes start in the front office and the coaching staff. There were none on their own. They only replaced people as they left to seek employment elsewhere. The OL has been and is horrible. Pack93z has a better understanding of the OL than I ever will. He has been hollering for a new line coach for at least 5 years. If a fan who is sitting on the outside can recognize a serious problem why can't Ted and Mike? Loyalty is great but Campen has been given more than enough time to right the ship and he has failed to do so.

I blame the OL for Aaron's injury. If there was an impregnable wall in front of Aaron he wouldn't have been sacked. GB wouldn't have lost all those game and they might have gotten the bye instead of Carolina. They might have beaten SF this past weekend with a stout OL.

Of course there was no change in the Secondary that they desperately needed. Well I am not going to continue to go on with all the changes they didn't make. there are holes to fill in and I would like to see them start to fill the holes.
wpr  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:39:16 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
A few years ago we had what many considered the deepest receiving group, because of salary concerns we don't any longer.


It is not that the rest of your post doesn't merit comment I was thinking about the WR this morning before work.

A team needs an above average WR. Mandatory.
A team should have two. Very helpful.
A team with 3 above average WR is a luxury. It is nice to have but not required.
A team DOES NOT need 4 or 5 above average WR. It actually can be a waste of resources.

If the 4-5th receivers are at league minimums fine. But most of the time they don't use 4 WR formations so at least 1 player is standing on the sidelines being unproductive. Yes injuries can be a factor but you don't sign 4 elite WR because of injury concerns.

Aaron like other elite QBs make average WR into above average players. Give me a couple of outstanding WR with a solid possession receiver to back them up. A good TE and an above average RB and you will go far. With Aaron that is. Spend the money on the OL and defense.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:49:06 PM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not much of a McGinn fan. (Actually, I'm not a McGinn fan at all.)



Me too. I've hated McGinn from way back.

I hate to say anything favorable about Ted Thompson - for reasons I've repeated many times. Just the same, all those alternatives - the teams in our division McGinn talks glowingly about, the hot and cold up and down teams like K.C., Seattle, and Arizona, etc. are NOT what I want to see from the Packers. We have STABILITY at or very near the top. Yes, of course, a very large part of that is the massive good fortune of having the world's greatest QB - despite the idiocy spewed by at least one poster here about that bogus hold it too long thing.

We do, in fact, just need some fine tuning/tweaking of problem areas. Unfortunately, our resident tweeker/GM hasn't done that for several years, and has either drafted poorly or had bad luck - take your pick - besides.

If all we want is an "elite" regular season record, we got it now - all we need is for Aaron Rodgers to stay healthy. If we want to be better than pretty much ANYBODY else, we are maybe an OLB and a Safety away from that too. Forget the mediocre O-Line; Forget the lame talent at ILB; Settle for what Morgan Burnett brings to the table when healthy; Go with what we have in house - minus Raji and Pickett of course. If we fixed or got lucky in all those areas, the Packers would be a super team and the rest of the league would be whining to break up our dynasty.

nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 4:13:59 PM(UTC)
We were 5-2, but it was an UGLY 5-2.

This team shit itself early, but was rebounding like it always does.
porky88  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 7:27:20 PM(UTC)
Bob McGinn has covered the Packers for along time and has built relations within 1265. He wrote around a month back that he suspects the Packers will test free agency this off-season. That caught my attention because I hardly doubt he'd put that out there if somebody inside didn't give him information.

Nevertheless, I also found it amusing that the guy who said Green Bay could win 10 or 11 games without Aaron Rodgers is penning one of his harshest critiques of the organization in years. Also, prior to the season, he thought enough of the Packers to suggest they were going to make a deep playoff run.

Where's the accountability?

This team isn’t far away from returning to the Super Bowl. They need to continue to develop their young players, get healthy, and stop boycotting free agency. I like Thompson’s cautious approach to free agency. It's better than believing we're always just one player away. However, the Packers act as if their salary cap situation is what it was under Mike Sherman. It’s not. It’s in relatively good shape.

Many inside and outside of 1265 are guilty of overrating Green Bay’s talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Maybe that’s why McGinn is being so harsh. Rodgers’ absence opened the door for Thompson, McCarthy, and the coaches to get a better read on this team. For example, how does the defense play without a lead? Maybe now we’ll see something bolder in the draft or free agency. I’d prefer the latter.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 8:21:56 PM(UTC)
porky88 said: Go to Quoted Post
Bob McGinn has covered the Packers for along time and has built relations within 1265. He wrote around a month back that he suspects the Packers will test free agency this off-season. That caught my attention because I hardly doubt he'd put that out there if somebody inside didn't give him information.

Nevertheless, I also found it amusing that the guy who said Green Bay could win 10 or 11 games without Aaron Rodgers is penning one of his harshest critiques of the organization in years. Also, prior to the season, he thought enough of the Packers to suggest they were going to make a deep playoff run.

Where's the accountability?

This team isn’t far away from returning to the Super Bowl. They need to continue to develop their young players, get healthy, and stop boycotting free agency. I like Thompson’s cautious approach to free agency. It's better than believing we're always just one player away. However, the Packers act as if their salary cap situation is what it was under Mike Sherman. It’s not. It’s in relatively good shape.

Many inside and outside of 1265 are guilty of overrating Green Bay’s talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Maybe that’s why McGinn is being so harsh. Rodgers’ absence opened the door for Thompson, McCarthy, and the coaches to get a better read on this team. For example, how does the defense play without a lead? Maybe now we’ll see something bolder in the draft or free agency. I’d prefer the latter.


Good Analysis. There's a fine line between righting the ship and rocking the boat.

VinceLambeauStarr  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:21:53 AM(UTC)
The expectation of sustained success is usually placed on team by the feeling of entitlement from the fan-base, and with good reason.

The thing is, 31 other teams (arguably 30, Dallas :P) are trying to win the bowl game, and each team has to try and do it a different way because the playing chips are different for each organisation.

I think it's too early to say the Packers' are slipping - a quick look at the top tier teams in the NFL (Seahawks, 49ers, Patriots, Broncos) and it's evident that there is no need for panic, a massive rebuild or anything of the sort.

Out of those four teams, only the Patriots can stake claim to sustained success over a decade. The other three teams have gone through dark periods, and with upcoming moves on the business side of things, you can bet on atleast one of these teams taking a step backward in the next few years.

Our team isn't built to win the way Seattle or San Fran do, it's built to win like the Broncos do, similar to the way Indy was built when Manning was there. This year was the first where the prospect of playing without your core was exposed, and luckily it wasn't for a full season (Colts 2-14 year). I fully expect Ted, Mike et al to recognize this and try their level best to ensure that we can still compete without our starting quarterback.

I have faith that even though we have had a rocky few years during clutch time, we will improve and we will return to the summit of the elite. Possibly in eight months time.
steveishere  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:41:45 AM(UTC)
VinceLambeauStarr said: Go to Quoted Post

Out of those four teams, only the Patriots can stake claim to sustained success over a decade. The other three teams have gone through dark periods, and with upcoming moves on the business side of things, you can bet on atleast one of these teams taking a step backward in the next few years.


Thing is even the Patriots recently had a 3 year stretch without winning a playoff game. It's not uncommon even if you have an elite QB and coaching staff.
play2win  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:44:26 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Well, I guess ole Bob has changed his tune since he wrote the now "infamous" Packers can win without Aaron Rodgers" story.

Or is it he is just trying to make the fans forget HOW WRONG HE WAS then and next year, with a little luck, The Packers stay farly healthy, he will once again have written a "I'm just a dumbass writer trying to appease the fans" article.

Let's see how long "these elite teams" stay that way when all thier 1st round top 5 draft picks start demanding more money than a team can afford.

Down year, still North Champions, did everything but "win" their playoff game", which is a hell of a lot better than the 2 prior years where they forgot to show up.

Hell, I may be in the minority here, but after a certain point,(15 guys ir'ed), I was impressed with the Heart and Desire of the guys left playing.

Outmanned and playing with a bunch of "Babies" and career "backups", they still managed to make it to The Playoffs, that is all anyone can ask.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO PANIC!!!!!!!

There will be changes this offseason, but IMHO, not as drastic as some may want or think.


That's all well and good, but look a little closer and we are in serious trouble. We did not beat a single team with a winning record. We've had 4 picks on D in Rounds 1 and 2 over the past two years at key areas of need, and not one of them did anything exceptional for us this season. Not one. Not a single player out of those 4 made a real impact on this defense in 2013.

We have a HC who refuses to part ways with coaches on his staff who are not performing up to task. The status quo is not good. How do you expect to see change for the better when there will be no change?

Until I see some real commitment from this staff to change their ways, we are unfortunately in for much of the same. No key FA acquisitions. No turnaround in a Strength & Conditioning staff that has left us with the most adjusted games lost in the NFL for 4 years running. No change in DC. Our defense has set all-time NFL records for futility over these past 3 seasons, and last season showed very little change there. Its not like we're ticking up, getting better.

I don't see it. And, barking about winning the NFC North? Really? I'm happy we did win it, but, wow. The rest of the division is a laughing stock.

Offensively, I thought we did some good things this season. Got a running game going. Got an OL together that was serviceable. We sure weren't road graders, but we saw an improvement. Boykins came on as a 4th WR and did well. And, Rodgers was good when healthy enough to play.

Aside from that, we pretty much sucked. Even on offense we had questionable play calling and game time mismanagement from and experienced HC. How many pre-snap penalties did we get at crucial moments during games? 12 men on the field, twice in a row? Our clock management was suspect at the end of the first half during our playoff loss to SF. How?

Defensively, we didn't get the job done, and we looked to have gaping holes at a number of position groups on our D. We showed heart in beating DAL and CHI teams that continually choke under pressure. That is pretty much it.

There is an awful lot that needs fixing this offseason and regular season. How will we be healthier next season? How will we not telegraph our intentions to the opposition? The good teams we played knew exactly what we were going to do, and we too often failed to execute. We looked out classed, and let's face it, we were. Exactly how is that going to change?

Personnel acquisition philosophy needs to change as well as coaching philosophy, and hopefully some staff that will perform better, and get more results from our players. Hopefully we add new, top tier talent. Will that happen? How?

No one got the job done last year, from Ted on down to the coaching staff and the players. Time for some real change on this Packers team.

The Patriots won 3 Super Bowls since 2001. Their coaching staff is better, their personnel staff is not bound to using only young draftees and UDFAs, they are fluid, willing to take risks with trades and signings, and their players have a professional attitude in going about their work at game time. We should have won at least two during Rodgers' tenure to date. Yet, we've surrounded him with inexperienced draftees and complacent coaching and personnel staffs.

We need vets who can show our younger players the way to win, the way to prepare, and we need a staff, both in coaching and in personnel, who is accountable, who will exhaust all of their energies and resources to win. I hope we see these changes. But, my expectations have been lowered, beaten down after three years of the same old BS lip service. I want to see this team change for the better. Both Ted and Mike might be too stuck in their ways for that to happen...
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