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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:05:51 PM(UTC)
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Assuming being the tallest midget in NFC North is not legit, what do the Packers need to be a legit Super Bowl contender?

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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:12:06 PM(UTC)
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New GM
New Coaching Staff

Healthy Players!!!!!

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:16:30 PM(UTC)
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Nothing. As long as they have Rodgers, they are a legit contender.

Now, to win it, they need a combination of some luck and health.
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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:24:35 PM(UTC)
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a stouter defense. Need players on the line, LB and backfield.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:26:02 PM(UTC)
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Defensive issues are personnel, not coaching. You land a player like Haloti Ngata that eats up blockers AND still gets push, the linebackers are able to do their job more efficiently. The secondary can afford to take some risks.


Offensive issues are purely coaching. Yes, the offensive line is bottom half in the NFL to put it nicely, but they can move the ball with the best of them. I say the issues are coaching because between the 20's they stroke it great, but once inside the red zone the play caller confuses creativity with cuteness.


Special Teams issues are personnel due to injuries. You simply can't keep restocking your special team unit with players off the street and expect All Pro results.


I really hope having the Packers ass handed to them two years in a row by the 49ers sends the coaching staff a wake up call that status quo is a no go. Don't overhaul the whole system, no, but quit being so damn stubborn and consider for a moment you're not the best everything to anything.

In other words ... Packers need a slight dose of humility and I'm hoping the the 49er's losses provided some.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline The_Green_Ninja  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:29:42 PM(UTC)
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Defensive pressure. Bring in rushing people. We will win. Oh and Offensive Linemen
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:28:48 PM(UTC)
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Improvement of the Oline by the return of Bulaga and maybe getting Sherrod going, and getting pressure from the Dline and improvement in the secondary which dline pressure alone will make easier. An upgrade over Jones at LB would be nice also.

It was brutal watching the team without Rodgers but that may have been the best thing for the teams future. It forced us to run the ball and hopefully they will keep doing it in the future. We should have an offense with Rodgers a few receiving threats and Lacy that can face any defense.

We just need a defense that can do the same thing back.
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Offline mi_keys  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:40:54 PM(UTC)
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-Safety
-Help in the trenches
-Clean up the red zone scoring (never was an issue before, don't think we were outside of top 5 but maybe one year with Rodgers and McCarthy before this past season)
-Better luck/prevention of injuries
-And we can't get hit too hard with free agents leaving

There are things that need to be fixed, and there are clearly teams that are a step ahead of us at the moment (Denver, New England, Seattle and San Fran come to mind) while there are other teams at or around our level that we have to compete with as well. That said, there are teams much, much further away than us. Things can change quickly in the NFL. Baltimore went from winning the Super Bowl to out of the playoffs.
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Offline nerdmann  
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:21:39 PM(UTC)
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We need to improve at S.

We need depth on the DL, which may or may not be there at this time.

We need a pass receiving TE. Could be Bostick. Might even be Stoneburner. Maybe Quarless can even be that guy. I don't know. But I don't think Finley will ever play again, for us or any other team.

More depth at C, but Tretter could be that guy.

Those are the personnel issues. Even bigger than those issues are:

1: Staying fucking healthy.

2: Playing for 60 minutes. Sick of watching this team go into lulls against shitty opponents.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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Offline cheeseheads123  
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 3:00:44 PM(UTC)
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Its simple. Stick the Packers in the AFC!
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Offline steveishere  
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:13:46 PM(UTC)
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Even with the couple weak areas this is a Superbowl caliber team when it's fairly healthy. So ultimately they need better health and some improvements in a couple areas would only help. This team got through this season in what pretty much were the worst potential circumstances yet still made the playoffs and lost on a last second FG to what was probably the 2nd best team in the NFC.

I don't know that good health is a reasonable expectation at this point anymore so here's to having more starting-quality back up players next year.
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Offline nyrpack  
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 5:22:05 PM(UTC)
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as a few have said , staying healthy is the # 1 answer, and then i hate to say it get some new blood at defensive coordinater, capers has outlasted his stay !!
jimmy b.
Offline DakotaT  
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 5:24:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
New GM
New Coaching Staff

Healthy Players!!!!!



Why do you go completely out of your way to be a sniveling little pussy? Usually a dude likes to be masculine. We all know what you really think about this subject.

I don't think we will be sniffing a Super Bowl until we develop a solid Dline and acquire a much better safety to team up with Burnett. Why they didn't use Hyde more at safety this season is confusing.
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Offline Wade  
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 5:51:39 PM(UTC)
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Heck. They're really close. Only three things need fixing:

1. OL OL OL.
2. Between the hashmarks on defense: NT, ILB, S.
3. Another pass rusher.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:08:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do you go completely out of your way to be a sniveling little pussy? Usually a dude likes to be masculine. We all know what you really think about this subject.

I don't think we will be sniffing a Super Bowl until we develop a solid Dline and acquire a much better safety to team up with Burnett. Why they didn't use Hyde more at safety this season is confusing.


They do need some depth on the DL. It'd like to see us nab a hard core super NT type dude like Haloti Ngata, who for the record, I wanted us to draft rather than AJ Hawk. I talk shit about Hawk all the time, but I'm not saying it was a bad pick. Just saying. ;)

This team was far better than it seemed this season.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DakotaT  
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 8:37:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post

This team was far better than it seemed this season.


This team was a fricken train wreck this season, but the Cowboy, Bears, and playoff 49er game - they showed a lot of character.
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Offline nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 8:54:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
This team was a fricken train wreck this season, but the Cowboy, Bears, and playoff 49er game - they showed a lot of character.


If Rodgers doesn't go down, they win 12 games.

If they had Flynn as soon as he became available, they go at least .500 during that time.

Either way, they're not even playing WildCard weekend.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#18 Posted : Thursday, January 30, 2014 8:58:13 PM(UTC)
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Nice to see that the bulk of the emphasis here is on personnel rather than coaching.

Obviously, as long as we have Aaron Rodgers, we will be a contender; Obviously, injuries messed us up severely, although I would attribute that to bad luck more than anything else.

How much improvement is needed depends a lot on how things go with the other quality teams in the NFC and the league in general. It's not out of the question we could get to and win the Super Bowl with not much more than we have - if healthy - and what we can be expected to get in the draft. To become the super team we all crave for, however, we need more than we can realistically hope to add in one off-season.

In order of priority, IMO, we need a quality Safety to pair with Burnett, an athletic tough ILB to pair as a starter with either Hawk or Lattimore, help at OT - unless Bulaga and Sherrod BOTH suddenly shape up and play like first rounders. I think we could stand pat at G and C, considering various other needs. I think we also can stand pat at TE. Quarless, honestly, impressed me more than Finley when he was healthy, and Bostick and/or Stoneburner have a lot of potential as receivers - considering who is throwing it to them. I also think we could stand pat on the D Line. Just getting rid of the fat slobs Raji and Pickett will do wonders. I really don't want to use a high draft pick for some other possible Raji clone who just might show toughness - but probably not. I'd rather have the mobility of Daniels or Worthy rotate at NT and DE, with Boyd available for the occasional need for more bulk. I still have hope that a healthy Datone Jones will be something special at DE; I think Neal, if we keep him at all, would be better used at DE. Ideally, we get another pass rushing OLB, but considering the higher priority needs, we may need to take a chance that Perry or Mulumba can be the bookend we need.

The most direct route to improvement would be a quality free agent cover Safety - Byrd if healthy, Ward, or somebody similar, and draft the best ILB available - Borland or better. Other than that, it's just reinforcement of what we've got.

Message modified by user Friday, January 31, 2014 8:33:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Wade  
#19 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 8:45:22 AM(UTC)
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I'm glad others are more optimistic than I am.

But, compared to this time a year ago, I just don't see it.

Position by position, as I see the roster going into the free agency period:

Offense:
WR -- surprisingly, no change. I thought Jennings loss would be bigger, but Bostick stepped up.
TE -- also a surprise. improvement.
RB -- clearly the major accomplishment of the year with Lacy. One draft pick I am really glad to have been really wrong about.
QB -- same. The one place where, IMO, an injury explanation holds. On the other hand, I and others have been pointing out for years that with the Packers OL, its a real risk to happen again. Because:
OT, OG, C -- no change. I thought Newhouse would finally step up, but was not to be; I was wrong there. OTOH, I fail to understand the great optimism re: Bahktiari. He showed me virtually nothing to warrant it. And I've never been as sold on Bulaga or Lang as other people. EDS showed as serviceable long term player, but overall I see no grounds for thinking this unit has any more going for it than it did a year ago. I thought it was (excluding Sitton) a mediocre/serviceable unit then, and I think it is a mediocre/serviceable unit now. Same possible unproven potential as before. Until it gets better, I expect to lose Rodgers for some games every year.
Backups: QB slightly better, RB slightly better prosects, TE wash, WR wash, OL no change.
Overall: better because of Lacy.

Defense:
DT: Weaker. I've been a Pickett fan forever. But, alas, I think he declined last year. And as for Raji, well, it's past time. I don't know whether Daniels should be considered DT or DE at this point, but I've always put him at DT and so does the Packers roster list, so I'll put him there. And he was a real positive, one of very few on the defensive side last year. So Daniels a big up; Pickett a down and Raji a down, so I'd say weaker overall, since this is a position that needs rotation during games.
DE: No change. Boyd -- flashes suggesting cautious optimism warranted. Jones -- I didn't like the pick, and I'm still underwhelmed. The rest -- bleh.
OLB: No change. Didn't like the Perry pick, still don't. Matthews, injuries notwithstanding, still IMO is a stud. The rest -- same potential, different year.
ILB: Slight improvement, but still mediocre. Improvement: Lighter Hawk looked better; Lattimore definitely looked better. Jones -- don't know if he belongs here or at OLB; regardless, looked, if anything, more underwhelming.
CB: Same. Hyde this year's pleasant surprise after last year's pleasant surprise of Hayward. OTOH, Hayward was disappointing -- I didn't like the draft pick two years ago, last year I thought I was wrong about the pick, and now, well I don't know what to think of the guy anymore. (Since this "before free agency" assessment, I'm counting Shields as still there. If Shields is lost, this position takes a major hit.)
S: Worse. McMillian didn't even last the year and MD Jennings looked worse; a year ago, he still seemed, to me anyway, to offer some potential. Not as optimistic about Burnett either. Richardson -- more optimistic, because with the injury frankly I never expected anything from him before.
Depth? Only at CB and even there it could be better.
Overall: Worse.

Special teams:
P Same. Masthay still a stud.
K Better. But I was never really that down on Crosby, despite last year.
PR/KR: Okay. I'm not as gungho on Hyde as some, but he's good enough for my taste. Blocking still leaves something to be desired IMO.
Punt/kick coverage: Jarrett Bush still a stud. Rest -- ho hum to mediocre.
Overall: Same.

A healthy Rodgers can carry this team into the playoffs. But even he isn't enough to carry it to the level of serious Super Bowl contender.

I've been harping on OL so long, I find it hard to get enthusiastic about this or that players "potential improvement/growth" or "return from injury" anymore. Much as I like Lacy and much as he is my kind of Jim Taylor/John Brockington-type back, that kind of back behind a mediocre line takes a even more horrible pounding. Taylor lasted longer, but he had an all-world OL; Brockington, well he had three great years and then fell off.

And, the defense to me is getting worse, not better.

If I thought Thompson might be more risk-taking in free agency rather than gambling the entire hand on draft-and-develop-potential, I might be optimistic. But I'll believe that is a possibility when I see it.

Sorry, but the Pickett and Woodson examples are no longer credible examples that Ted Thompson is interested in playing anything other than bargain-basement and third-tier free agency. Both are among my all time favorite Packers, but both were 8 frigging years ago. Two major free agent acquisitions in 9 years -- that is not, IMO, a serious commitment.

I'm sorry, but the "at least he's not Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones" doesn't make it for me. There's a helluva middle ground between those two and where Thompson operates in free agency -- where most of the other 27 teams operate. Saying "would you rather have Snyder?" as a affirmation of Ted Thompson's approach to the draft is almost as bad as saying "would you rather have Bush" as a justification for voting for Obama. I don't want either of those bastards for President and I don't want the Packers to choose between "virtually no major free agent action" and "moronic billionaire buy every big ticket player".

The Packers are closer to serious Super Bowl contention than I am to getting out of debt, but not a whole lot closer.

Hell, no, I'm not optimistic.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#20 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 9:11:37 AM(UTC)
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Good Analysis, Wade. I'm pretty sure you meant Boykin at WR instead of Bostick. I agree about the O Line, especially the lack of positivity so many have for Bakhtiari. Ditto for Bulaga last year anyway. As for D, I'm still hopeful for Datone Jones, but I share your pessimism for Perry. I disagree with you on Hayward - still good hope if he can stay healthy, and Richardson - I saw nothing good in him.
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Offline Wade  
#21 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 10:08:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Good Analysis, Wade. I'm pretty sure you meant Boykin at WR instead of Bostick. I agree about the O Line, especially the lack of positivity so many have for Bakhtiari. Ditto for Bulaga last year anyway. As for D, I'm still hopeful for Datone Jones, but I share your pessimism for Perry. I disagree with you on Hayward - still good hope if he can stay healthy, and Richardson - I saw nothing good in him.


I did mean Boykin, yes. Thanks for the correction.

Re: Jones, OL, et al...I guess I'm just tired of hearing the same "potential" and "develop" and "grow" predictions every year.

And I just can't buy it anymore, especially on the OL.

Spitz, Moll, Colledge, Barbre, Giancomini, etc etc etc etc etc etc., Bulaga, Bakhtiari, and whoever they draft this year in the sixth round. It just gets old.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline wpr  
#22 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 10:49:43 AM(UTC)
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nice summary Wade.
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Offline DoddPower  
#23 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 2:04:05 PM(UTC)
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Wade being pessimistic? Neeeever. I just can't believe it.

Other than perhaps a few teams, the Packers will be as good as any other team in the NFL. True, the Seahawks, 49'ers, and Broncos MIGHT be better next season, but beyond that, the Packers will be as good or better than the other teams on any given Sunday. That's pretty good. Packer fans should expect more, but realistically, it's hard to ask for much more. As weak as some areas of the team may be, Aaron Rodgers and Eddie Lacy will compensate for many of those weaknesses. Will that be enough to win another Super Bowl? Maybe not, but it's possible. All the Packers have to do to have a chance is keep Rodgers healthy, and improve slightly in a few areas. Those are very realistic goals. The 49'ers playoff game this year was a perfect example. The Packers competed the entire game, but just lost. Things could bounce differently next time.

Things could be better in Packer land, but they certainly could be much, much worse.
Offline nerdmann  
#24 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 3:31:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post

Offense:
WR -- surprisingly, no change. I thought Jennings loss would be bigger, but Boykin stepped up.
TE -- also a surprise. improvement.
RB -- clearly the major accomplishment of the year with Lacy. One draft pick I am really glad to have been really wrong about.
QB -- same. The one place where, IMO, an injury explanation holds. On the other hand, I and others have been pointing out for years that with the Packers OL, its a real risk to happen again. Because:
OT, OG, C -- no change. I thought Newhouse would finally step up, but was not to be; I was wrong there. OTOH, I fail to understand the great optimism re: Bahktiari. He showed me virtually nothing to warrant it. And I've never been as sold on Bulaga or Lang as other people. EDS showed as serviceable long term player, but overall I see no grounds for thinking this unit has any more going for it than it did a year ago. I thought it was (excluding Sitton) a mediocre/serviceable unit then, and I think it is a mediocre/serviceable unit now. Same possible unproven potential as before. Until it gets better, I expect to lose Rodgers for some games every year.
Backups: QB slightly better, RB slightly better prosects, TE wash, WR wash, OL no change.
Overall: better because of Lacy.


Wow, Bakhtiari showed you NOTHING? He came is as a rookie, weighting under 300lbs and held up, all year. Was he pro bowl level? NO. But he held up, and with an offseason in the program, he should be able to bulk up plenty. Dude with a 4th rounder, who played better at LT than the top pick overall and the one shortly thereafter did at RT. And did so as the starter for the entire year.

EDS has shown he could get it done at an adequate level. Which is to say, he surprised me. Tretter might beat him out, but EDS can play.

Lang had a great year too. The only really off-year he's had was his second year, when he couldn't life during the offseason, due to a wrist injury. And Bulaga is as solid as anyone. Sherrod's really the only question mark. Sherrod and Tretter. But we're definitely getting stronger at this position, no question.


Quote:

Defense:
DT: Weaker. I've been a Pickett fan forever. But, alas, I think he declined last year. And as for Raji, well, it's past time. I don't know whether Daniels should be considered DT or DE at this point, but I've always put him at DT and so does the Packers roster list, so I'll put him there. And he was a real positive, one of very few on the defensive side last year. So Daniels a big up; Pickett a down and Raji a down, so I'd say weaker overall, since this is a position that needs rotation during games.
DE: No change. Boyd -- flashes suggesting cautious optimism warranted. Jones -- I didn't like the pick, and I'm still underwhelmed. The rest -- bleh.


Boyd is a NT is he not? He's played well, and seems to have potential. I agree about Pickett, and Raji definitely has underwhelmed. DL needs some depth. I'd say we're weaker here. Jolly should be back, though.

I'm a little disappointed with Datone Jones, and I didn't like the pick at the time. LOL. I was saying IF GENO SMITH FALLS, GO GET HIM TED! Haha, but I still like Datone. I'm reserving judgement, and I do believe he'll be fine. Still overall, the DL needs to get stronger.



Quote:

OLB: No change. Didn't like the Perry pick, still don't. Matthews, injuries notwithstanding, still IMO is a stud. The rest -- same potential, different year.


This position is frustrating. Perry needs to prove he can get healthy. Then he needs to prove he can stay that way. Neal needs to show he can play. Just another tweener on a team full of guys who don't fit their prototypes. Be nice of Nate Palmer shows he can play.
I don't think we're weaker here. Palmer and Neal with have a year of experience.


Quote:

ILB: Slight improvement, but still mediocre. Improvement: Lighter Hawk looked better; Lattimore definitely looked better. Jones -- don't know if he belongs here or at OLB; regardless, looked, if anything, more underwhelming.
CB: Same. Hyde this year's pleasant surprise after last year's pleasant surprise of Hayward. OTOH, Hayward was disappointing -- I didn't like the draft pick two years ago, last year I thought I was wrong about the pick, and now, well I don't know what to think of the guy anymore. (Since this "before free agency" assessment, I'm counting Shields as still there. If Shields is lost, this position takes a major hit.)


Hayward was disappointing because of training issues, not because of his skills as a player. Huge difference. Not like he came out there and stunk up the joint. The key at this position is health.
It'd be nice if House took some yoga lessons and gained some fluidity in his hips. He's a bit mechanical. Also, he's the latest DB who needs to make the decision that he's willing to tackle. Dude has made some great plays in coverage, but he's also given up big plays. I think we're still ok here. Tramon's a year older. Shields may or may not be back...


Quote:

S: Worse. McMillian didn't even last the year and MD Jennings looked worse; a year ago, he still seemed, to me anyway, to offer some potential. Not as optimistic about Burnett either. Richardson -- more optimistic, because with the injury frankly I never expected anything from him before.
Depth? Only at CB and even there it could be better.
Overall: Worse.


This position is definitely worse. McMillian shit on his career, and MD Jennings proved that he can't play. On the plus side, those were two experiments that have proven to NOT work. So at least now we know we need to look elsewhere.


Quote:

Sorry, but the Pickett and Woodson examples are no longer credible examples that Ted Thompson is interested in playing anything other than bargain-basement and third-tier free agency. Both are among my all time favorite Packers, but both were 8 frigging years ago. Two major free agent acquisitions in 9 years -- that is not, IMO, a serious commitment.


What about guys like James Jones? Ted doesn't get credit for signing his own. Finley too. Then there's DuJuan Harris, who might turn out to be a pretty significant acquisition.

Bottom line for me is, Packers need to do SOMETHING about all the injuries. It's costing this franchise, year after year.

Message modified by user Friday, January 31, 2014 8:30:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline luigis  
#25 Posted : Friday, January 31, 2014 4:22:50 PM(UTC)
luigis

Rank: 6th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 95
Applause Received: 97

I believe you need 3 things:

- A francjise QB (check)
- Some luck
- The right path to reach the SB

Some teams are better prepared to defeat some other teams. Some coaches fit better against some others.

In 2010 we drawed Phily, Atlanta and Chicago. We could defeat those teams and we still can.
San Francisco and the Giants are teams that we can't defeat.

I'm sure we would have defeated Carolina this year, too bad we had San Francisco in the middle.
Luis
thanks Post received 2 applause.
DakotaT on 1/31/2014(UTC), DoddPower on 2/1/2014(UTC)
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