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Offline GermanGilbert  
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:41:14 PM(UTC)
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Does anyone remember the epic collapse of the OLine when EDS left the Thanksgiving game and Lang took over at C? No, I don't want to see this again.

Of course that was not all on Lang, the complete shift of personnel, Newhouse at LT and no practice snap in this formation didn't help as well. But overall Lang was way better at G than at C. If you think EDS is not servicable enough, bring someone in, but don't switch Lang to a position where he's worse and open a new hole at another position.
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Offline DoddPower  
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:43:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert Go to Quoted Post
Of course that was not all on Lang, the complete shift of personnel, Newhouse at LT and no practice snap in this formation didn't help as well. But overall Lang was way better at G than at C. If you think EDS is not servicable enough, bring someone in, but don't switch Lang to a position where he's worse and open a new hole at another position.


I agree. Don't move Lang. Just try to upgrade the center position otherwise.
Offline Bigbyfan  
#18 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 2:31:08 PM(UTC)
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I'm not sure why everyone is so down on EDS at center. He is ranked as one of the best pass blocking centers in the league. ProFootballFocus even had him ranked as the 8th best center in the league last season.

This team has a few needs that need to be fixed this offseason. Center is not one of them.
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Offline GermanGilbert  
#19 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 2:40:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bigbyfan Go to Quoted Post
This team has a few needs that need to be fixed this offseason. Center is not one of them.


With EDS being FA Center is a huge need to be fixed. Either with EDS himself or with someone else.

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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#20 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:17:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bigbyfan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure why everyone is so down on EDS at center. He is ranked as one of the best pass blocking centers in the league. ProFootballFocus even had him ranked as the 8th best center in the league last season.

This team has a few needs that need to be fixed this offseason. Center is not one of them.


Agree, the problem being, he is a FA this year, is there enough money to sign him?

T.J Lang is due 5.1 mil this year, Josh Sitton 6.4 mil.

How much money can a team invest in the o-line?

The Packers usually keep 8 lineman on the 53 man roster, 7 are usually active on gameday.

Bulaga 3.8 mil , Sherrard 2.1mil, Bahktiari .61mil, Barclay .57mil, Lane Taylor .50 mil, and J. C Tretter .59 mil

There's also Geirhart, Coleman, Adams, Tiller, and Vujnovich who are pretty much irrelevant at this point.(for this discussion)

The Packers have 19.58mil invested in the line for 2014(top 8).

Tretter who is being talked about as maybe the future C can go on the PS if Ted decides to resign EDS.
I guess there are 3 easy options right now.
1.Sign EDS(if possible) and stash Tretter on the PS
2.Sign EDS keep Tretter on 53 man roster and let a Lane Taylor or Derrick Sherrard go.
3. Let EDS go and trust that Tretter can become the starter at C for The Packers.

I prefer option #1.

Would be great if The Packers could have these guys battle it out in Training Camp, but that's not an option at C, Ted has to make a decision on EDS.

Ted decides to sign EDS, HE IS THE STARTER, there is no camp battle.
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
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DakotaT on 2/13/2014(UTC)
Offline warhawk  
#21 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:46:51 PM(UTC)
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I can't see McCarthy moving guys all over on the Oline. Ideally, they sign EDS and then:

See if Bahkitari makes that 2nd year leap and holds his job or if Bulaga earns it back. If not put Bulaga over at RT. That would actually be the ideal scenario if it panned out like that. Very little change (helps overall line play). Improved play at both tackle positions (helps overall line play too).

The wild card would be Sherrod with the talent he has that he has not been able to show to this point but that's certainly not a bad thing.

Again, I can't see them screwing around with the Oline. Arod went down for half the year and it was a disaster so IMO the last thing they will do is move people all over the place.

And precisely why the will sign EDS. They know he can play and he happens to squat right in front of the guy that nobody can ever say again this team can win consistently without.
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buckeyepackfan on 2/13/2014(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#22 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:06:55 PM(UTC)
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I'd don't think resigning EDS is a bad idea, and just going with the boys we currently have on the roster. We have three decent tackles, and I have my fingers crossed that Sherrod makes it all the way back and earns the LT position, but I'm good with Bacteria too. It's a dream to have a line like the Sherminator gave us, but I'd rather go heavy on defense this off season, cause that side of the ball needs the attention.
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Offline Wade  
#23 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:18:43 PM(UTC)
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(shaking head)

I actually like EDS. I don't think he's the weakest link of the OL.

I think he's really good ... for a backup position.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but debating between players who have demonstrated, at most, that they qualify as "serviceable" and those who might have "potential" for more, is a recipe for disaster.

The goal should not be to have an adequate OL. It should never be to have an adequate line. It should never be to have a serviceable OL. The goal should be to have a dominant line. A great line.

A great line makes an offense unstoppable. A serviceable line threatens the health of the Hall of Fame quarterback that is essential to that unstoppable offense.

Yes, the defense is a bigger train wreck. So it has to be a bigger priority overall. But however much of that train wreck can be cleaned up in one off season, it doesn't matter if Rodgers gets hurt. And, ISTM, if you approach the OL as "we're ok with serviceable and waiting for Tretter or Bahktiari or some pre-March "free agent servicable guys" to improve it, you're just risking #12 again.

The Packers were lucky that the injury last year was a collarbone. What if the next one is to the throwing shoulder or elbow? Or a concussion? Or a major knee injury?

Quarterbacks get injured. It's a reality of the game. But IMO you ought to be doing everything you can to ensure that they face as few hits as possible. And if you are continually content with combinations of "serviceable" and "potential for growth" and "late round picks", IMO you aren't doing everything you can.

IMO the Packers aren't going to be bona fide championship contender until they fix the defense. But they are also just one missed block away from having the same issues at quarterback as every other team in the NFC North.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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DoddPower on 2/15/2014(UTC)
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#24 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:19:01 PM(UTC)
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We were marginally decent in the interior last year, and horrible at OT. Ideally, as was said, Sherrod can play like a first rounder and Bulaga can play like he did several years ago. That would take care of things, but it is way short of a sure thing. I have no confidence in Bakhtiari, and Barclay is back up quality at best.

As for Center, like somebody said, if EDS signs, he will start. I think they are letting him shop around, and if nobody offers him what he wants, the Packers will sign him for less. That seems to say they think highly of Tretter.

As for the original topic, probably it's just sour grapes/excuses from the Van Roten people, but there is a chance the Packers did tell him that, and they don't care if EDS does leave. I'd hate to see that, because he did do a serviceable job, and Tretter is a unproven.

The bottom line, though, is that with Aaron Rodgers, Eddie Lacy, and our wideouts, we simply don't need all that great an O Line to have one of the best offenses in the NFL. Sure, I'd like it to get better, but the fact is, we don't absolutely need it.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#25 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:25:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
(shaking head)

I actually like EDS. I don't think he's the weakest link of the OL.

I think he's really good ... for a backup position.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but debating between players who have demonstrated, at most, that they qualify as "serviceable" and those who might have "potential" for more, is a recipe for disaster.

The goal should not be to have an adequate OL. It should never be to have an adequate line. It should never be to have a serviceable OL. The goal should be to have a dominant line. A great line.

A great line makes an offense unstoppable. A serviceable line threatens the health of the Hall of Fame quarterback that is essential to that unstoppable offense.

Yes, the defense is a bigger train wreck. So it has to be a bigger priority overall. But however much of that train wreck can be cleaned up in one off season, it doesn't matter if Rodgers gets hurt. And, ISTM, if you approach the OL as "we're ok with serviceable and waiting for Tretter or Bahktiari or some pre-March "free agent servicable guys" to improve it, you're just risking #12 again.

The Packers were lucky that the injury last year was a collarbone. What if the next one is to the throwing shoulder or elbow? Or a concussion? Or a major knee injury?

Quarterbacks get injured. It's a reality of the game. But IMO you ought to be doing everything you can to ensure that they face as few hits as possible. And if you are continually content with combinations of "serviceable" and "potential for growth" and "late round picks", IMO you aren't doing everything you can.

IMO the Packers aren't going to be bona fide championship contender until they fix the defense. But they are also just one missed block away from having the same issues at quarterback as every other team in the NFC North.


Then what is the answer?
The Packers have committed to the players on the roster, everyone of the O-line I mentioned are under contract except EDS.
Is there a better option available via Free Agency?
and if there is, can The Packers afford to sign that option without blowing up the salary cap?
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline Wade  
#26 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 2:45:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Then what is the answer?
The Packers have committed to the players on the roster, everyone of the O-line I mentioned are under contract except EDS.
Is there a better option available via Free Agency?
and if there is, can The Packers afford to sign that option without blowing up the salary cap?


That, sir, is exactly my point. The Packers commitment has been to "serviceable" and "development of potential" for years. There is, alas, no route to OL dominance that isn't going to take 2-3 years or multiple major free agent acquisitions.

Exactly like it has been for a nine years. I don't expect Ted Thompson to be able to make a dominant OL in 1 year. But he's had 9. And you apologists are making exactly the same arguments they were making in his first year.

Nine years of one home run (Sitton) and "serviceable" and "potential" ls not a commitment to greatness. It is being content with average.

I am *not* calling for TT's head. That's silly. But, IMO, he does need to do something, something major with the way the team decides on its OL roster. Maybe its more free agency, maybe its shaking up the personnel department and getting better scouts of OL players, maybe its telling McCarthy he needs to replace Campen and find someone who can develop that annual potential into dominance. Maybe it's some combination of all three.

I don't know.

I just don't think that anyone should be content with the approach that has been used for the OL for the last 9 years.

"Serviceable" is for also-rans. Nine years of "potential" that has developed into something between "mediocre" and "serviceable" is being content with woulda-coulda-shoulda.

More is expected.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#27 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 2:56:22 PM(UTC)
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Daryn Colledge was the other home run and the dipstick Thompson let him go to the Cardinals where he's been stellar. Imagine if the Packer still had both Sitton and College manning the G position? My lord!

LT- Sherrod
LG - Colledge
C - Fred Flinstone
RG - Sitton
RT - Bulaga


And then you have that #69 David B. as top T backup. Not friggin bad at all.


BTW, Packers can't get too big at Center because Rodgers prefers a certain butt height. n0j0ke
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Offline Wade  
#28 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 3:21:09 PM(UTC)
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Yes, yes, Mrs. Colledge, we know how you feel about your main squeeze. Big Grin

By the way, I just looked up some past drafts. Even Bart Starr (who everyone, including him, agrees was over his head as GM) had more players (one) play up to their "potential" after being drafted than Ted Thompson in less than half the time.

Greg Koch wasn't a Hall of Famer, but compared to what Bulaga, Colledge, Bahktiari, et al have shown, he was a stud OT for years.

Again, if you are content for almost a decade with the Colledges (even the St. Louis version, rofl), Bulagas (as shown so far), Langs, and Bahktiari (as shown so far), then you are insufficiently committed to your quarterback's health. IMO.

Overall, Starr was abysmal as GM and Ted Thompson has been very good. Starr needed to be fired, and Ted Thompson does not. But in this one area, assessment of and acquisition and development of OL talent, I'm not sure Ted Thompson is any better than Starr was. If he is, the difference is measurable in millimeters.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline GermanGilbert  
#29 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 3:46:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Daryn Colledge was the other home run and the dipstick Thompson let him go to the Cardinals where he's been stellar. Imagine if the Packer still had both Sitton and College manning the G position? My lord!

LT- Sherrod
LG - Colledge
C - Fred Flinstone
RG - Sitton
RT - Bulaga


Don't forget that former Packers OT who just earned his SB ring a few days ago ;)
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Offline steveishere  
#30 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 3:53:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post

Nine years of one home run (Sitton) and "serviceable" and "potential" ls not a commitment to greatness. It is being content with average.

.


The problem is you call players like Lang and EDS "serviceable" or "back up quality" when they are clearly better than that. Nobody has an o-line filled with Sitton quality players and that's just ridiculous if that's your standard. I'd say there are few if any teams that even have all Lang quality players.
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