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Offline sschind  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 1:39:09 PM(UTC)
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texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
I think you're right about the guaranteed money thing. Either way, though, it is advantageous for the team to make the bonus bigger and the term longer.

How about $34 million for six years with $9 million bonus and $1 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 5 / 7 million per year?

That would be just a $2.5 million cap hit the first year, and still fairly tolerable after that. The only way this is bad is if we think Shields won't stay good for 5 years or so.



I think a 6 year deal is stretching it although he is only 26 years old so maybe not. I also think 9 million guaranteed is pushing it on the low side of acceptance by Shields. Obviously the longer you go the less the hit and the less dead money at the end. If the Packers are willing to go 6 years I think I'd add a few million this year to further reduce the hit in the next few years and guarantee it.
Offline wpr  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 2:22:47 PM(UTC)
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texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
I think you're right about the guaranteed money thing. Either way, though, it is advantageous for the team to make the bonus bigger and the term longer.

How about $34 million for six years with $9 million bonus and $1 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 5 / 7 million per year?

That would be just a $2.5 million cap hit the first year, and still fairly tolerable after that. The only way this is bad is if we think Shields won't stay good for 5 years or so.



totally infeasible.

I am ignoring the signing bonus. It doesn't matter for this.

1. The vet min for a 5th year player is $730,000. They give that to back ups not to starters. Not to one of the better players on the team.

2. In 2013 the AVERAGE CB made $1.2 mil. That includes rookies and street FAs and everyone. I am pretty sure Sam and Ted and everyone else knows he is way above average.

3. In 2012 the 10th highest CB was paid $4.34 million. Joe Haden. I did not take the time to run down 2013.

4. Uncle Teddy ain't going to sign him for 6 years.
Offline DakotaT  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 4:34:44 PM(UTC)
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Why do you guys want to fuck this kid so bad on his contract? In my opinion we owe Sam big money for what he has already given us playing on a street free agent salary. He has had huge interceptions in big games, playoff games. He's a very good cover corner and still improving. Christ cut Brad Jones and give the money for his overpayed ass to Sam.

I'm confident the Packers will sign him, and if need be, I think they will franchise tag him.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
nerdmann on 2/24/2014(UTC), Yerko on 2/25/2014(UTC)
Offline dfosterf  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 4:37:21 PM(UTC)
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I DEFINITELY TOTALLY HAD HIM AS A ROOK IN TRAINING CAMP- look it up.


I oughta be runnin' that GBP place.

[laughing]

Pay the man.



thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 2/24/2014(UTC)
Offline sschind  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 5:25:15 PM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Why do you guys want to fuck this kid so bad on his contract? In my opinion we owe Sam big money for what he has already given us playing on a street free agent salary. He has had huge interceptions in big games, playoff games. He's a very good cover corner and still improving. Christ cut Brad Jones and give the money for his overpayed ass to Sam.

I'm confident the Packers will sign him, and if need be, I think they will franchise tag him.


Who is trying to fuck him. The report said he is looking for a deal worth between 5 and 7 million per year. Going on that My example (using zeroes numbers, 28 million over 4 years) it averages 7 with a very good chance that he plays the entire contract out (only 9 million cap hit in year 4 I think I had which if the cap keeps going up will not be that bad) even Texas' numbers give him 5.6million per year though I do think his guarantee number and early year salaries are a bit low.

Giving a guy 7 million per year when he is looking for 5 hardly seems like fucking him but I do think 5 is way less than he would take. If he is looking for 9 then there may be a problem.

I do agree with you in that I am confident they will get a deal worked out. I don't even think they will have to franchise him.
Offline sschind  
#21 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 5:40:36 PM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
totally infeasible.

I am ignoring the signing bonus. It doesn't matter for this.

1. The vet min for a 5th year player is $730,000. They give that to back ups not to starters. Not to one of the better players on the team.

2. In 2013 the AVERAGE CB made $1.2 mil. That includes rookies and street FAs and everyone. I am pretty sure Sam and Ted and everyone else knows he is way above average.

3. In 2012 the 10th highest CB was paid $4.34 million. Joe Haden. I did not take the time to run down 2013.

4. Uncle Teddy ain't going to sign him for 6 years.



Your points are very valid but you can't ignore the bonuses as they are integral parts of any deal. Lots of players take less in salary if it is made up in guaranteed bonuses. Especially if late year salaries are so high they are likely to result in the player being cut as a cap casualty. Agents know enough to realize that a 6 year deal that pays their guy 13 million dollars per in the last 2 years is really only a 4 year deal (except with QBS and MAYBE a very select few blue chippers) . Of course that hurts the team as well because you get a 2 year acceleration of the signing bonus.

I do agree that a 6 year deal is unlikely.
Offline DakotaT  
#22 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 8:44:02 PM(UTC)
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The more I think about it, that $5M quote has to be complete bull shit. He'd already be signed if he was coming that cheap.
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nerdmann on 2/24/2014(UTC), DoddPower on 2/25/2014(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#23 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:10:43 PM(UTC)
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sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
Your points are very valid but you can't ignore the bonuses as they are integral parts of any deal. Lots of players take less in salary if it is made up in guaranteed bonuses. Especially if late year salaries are so high they are likely to result in the player being cut as a cap casualty. Agents know enough to realize that a 6 year deal that pays their guy 13 million dollars per in the last 2 years is really only a 4 year deal (except with QBS and MAYBE a very select few blue chippers) . Of course that hurts the team as well because you get a 2 year acceleration of the signing bonus.

I do agree that a 6 year deal is unlikely.


yes I know but you don't give $9 mil in a bonus and then pay only $1 mil in year 1.

just to use Joe Haden as an example again he got a signing bonus of $12 back in 2010. $26 mil of his $50 mil contract was guaranteed. Yes he was a 1st round pick. That makes a difference too.
Offline wpr  
#24 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:11:26 PM(UTC)
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dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
I DEFINITELY TOTALLY HAD HIM AS A ROOK IN TRAINING CAMP- look it up.


I oughta be runnin' that GBP place.

[laughing]

Pay the man.





Welcome Gunny. It has been lonely without you. Hope all is well.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#25 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:55:49 PM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
totally infeasible.

I am ignoring the signing bonus. It doesn't matter for this.

1. The vet min for a 5th year player is $730,000. They give that to back ups not to starters. Not to one of the better players on the team.

2. In 2013 the AVERAGE CB made $1.2 mil. That includes rookies and street FAs and everyone. I am pretty sure Sam and Ted and everyone else knows he is way above average.

3. In 2012 the 10th highest CB was paid $4.34 million. Joe Haden. I did not take the time to run down 2013.

4. Uncle Teddy ain't going to sign him for 6 years.


What exactly are you trying to say with the $730,000 thing? How is that relevant to what I said?

Sschind, yeah, 6 years may be a bit much, but 5 is just one more than 4 (I think even Dakota can't argue that hahaha). Shields certainly ought to be good for 5 years, and in the 6th, he could easily be cut if he wasn't worth $7 million.

Offline texaspackerbacker  
#26 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 10:00:23 PM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
yes I know but you don't give $9 mil in a bonus and then pay only $1 mil in year 1.

just to use Joe Haden as an example again he got a signing bonus of $12 back in 2010. $26 mil of his $50 mil contract was guaranteed. Yes he was a 1st round pick. That makes a difference too.


Yes you do. That's the way the game is played. He doesn't need a big salary the first year because he has the bonus. If $9 million bonus/$10 million guaranteed is too low, make the bonus bigger. Assuming the contract averages out to $6 million a year or near that, the bigger bonus just benefits the cap in the early years.

Offline wpr  
#27 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 10:17:12 PM(UTC)
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texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
What exactly are you trying to say with the $730,000 thing? How is that relevant to what I said?

Sschind, yeah, 6 years may be a bit much, but 5 is just one more than 4 (I think even Dakota can't argue that hahaha). Shields certainly ought to be good for 5 years, and in the 6th, he could easily be cut if he wasn't worth $7 million.



no player who has been in the NFL for 4 years can earn less than $730,000. It is the minimum salary agreed to by the owners and player union.

That salary is not typically what a starter earns. That is for the 40th-53rd type of players.

In 2014 a rookie can earn no less than $420,000.
1st year players $495,000.
2nd yr players $570,000.
3rd yr $645,000
4th-6th yr $730,000
7-9th $855,000
10 or years $955,000.

source

Therefore regardless of the signing bonus paying Sam $1 mil would be a pretty big insult. Unrealistically I suppose he would accept it if he was giving a signing bonus of $50 million. But certainly not $9 million.
Offline Dulak  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:47:34 AM(UTC)
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Hope they keep shields for a reasonable price ... He is much better then I thought he would be ... remember when he was a rookie trying out. Almost thought he would turn out like a underwood (still no idea why he was on our team to begin with)

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:07:46 AM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
no player who has been in the NFL for 4 years can earn less than $730,000. It is the minimum salary agreed to by the owners and player union.

That salary is not typically what a starter earns. That is for the 40th-53rd type of players.

In 2014 a rookie can earn no less than $420,000.
1st year players $495,000.
2nd yr players $570,000.
3rd yr $645,000
4th-6th yr $730,000
7-9th $855,000
10 or years $955,000.

source

Therefore regardless of the signing bonus paying Sam $1 mil would be a pretty big insult. Unrealistically I suppose he would accept it if he was giving a signing bonus of $50 million. But certainly not $9 million.


I just don't see how what you say applies here. In effect, Shields would be getting $10 million the first year/$13 million the first two years according to what I outlined. I can see, like Sschind said, even that being not quite enough, but you can't just ignore the bonus and say the low first year salary is an insult. They do contracts like that all the time.

Offline gbguy20  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 4:19:16 PM(UTC)
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PFT is reporting the Cap could be higher than 132 million when it is announced. This would certainly help us out Smile
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nerdmann on 2/25/2014(UTC)
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