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Zero2Cool  
#61 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:25:43 AM(UTC)
blueleopard said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't know whether or not it's blatant sarcasm, but I'm in agreement that Hawk was supposed to be a superstar. At the same time, he hasn't actually been a liability to the defense. His play hay been adequate. Good enough? Of course not.


We're talking James Jones here, but to clarify a known fact. A.J. Hawk was never supposed to be a superstar. He was supposed to be a safe pick, a pick that had already reached his ceiling. Vernon Davis was supposed to be a superstar. He had a high ceiling. Hawk is who he was when drafted. An accountable player who isn't flashy. Hawk isn't the problem for the defense, or even the linebackers.


As for James Jones. I think after the report of how deep of a draft this is, he's gone.

User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#62 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:39:03 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
We're talking James Jones here, but to clarify a known fact. A.J. Hawk was never supposed to be a superstar. He was supposed to be a safe pick, a pick that had already reached his ceiling. Vernon Davis was supposed to be a superstar. He had a high ceiling. Hawk is who he was when drafted. An accountable player who isn't flashy. Hawk isn't the problem for the defense, or even the linebackers.


As for James Jones. I think after the report of how deep of a draft this is, he's gone.



I disagree about Hawk. You just don't draft somebody that high in the first round without strong expectation he will be a superstar. In the case of Hawk, I think "safe" meant no character issues or like that - compared to Davis for example, who I am on record as strongly preferring at the time.

Jones, on the other hand, was not expected to be a superstar. He has not been a disappointment. He just ain't worth the slightly less than Greg Jennings money it will probably take to sign him.

It's partly because of the position he plays too - shorter period of peak performance. I can foresee us having a similar discussion about Eddie Lacy in a few years - all out superstar, but questionable whether to pay him into his 30s superstar money.

steveishere  
#63 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:45:57 AM(UTC)
Lol I really dont see jones getting 8ish million a year
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#64 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:07:31 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Lol I really dont see jones getting 8ish million a year


I actually think he is going to resign with the Packers for $3M a year. Doesn't mean I think he is anywhere near the talent of player that is Nelson or Cobb - or that I don't cringe every time he is running with the football. James Jones is damn lucky our defense held out in the Eagles and Steelers playoff games in 2010, or his touchdown drops would have sent him into the unemployment line that season where he got very little free agent interest. Like I've said many times, Packers fans overvalue their players. And we have some major flawed offenders of this in this very forum.
steveishere  
#65 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:16:26 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I actually think he is going to resign with the Packers for $3M a year. Doesn't mean I think he is anywhere near the talent of player that is Nelson or Cobb - or that I don't cringe every time he is running with the football. James Jones is damn lucky our defense held out in the Eagles and Steelers playoff games in 2010, or his touchdown drops would have sent him into the unemployment line that season where he got very little free agent interest. Like I've said many times, Packers fans overvalue their players. And we have some major flawed offenders of this in this very forum.


I haven't really seen anybody here "overvaluing" James Jones. It seems to me like most here have been saying he's a decent WR and would be nice to keep but wouldn't be heartbroken if he left. Seems more like you are just inventing those people so you can be the edgy negative guy or something. Like you are just waiting for someone to say anything remotely positive about him so you can jump all over it with your "OMG you guys are overrating him he fumbled in this one game in 2007, everyone things James Jones is the best guy in the NFL" or some such comment.

[aiee]
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:31:18 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I haven't really seen anybody here "overvaluing" James Jones. It seems to me like most here have been saying he's a decent WR and would be nice to keep but wouldn't be heartbroken if he left. Seems more like you are just inventing those people so you can be the edgy negative guy or something. Like you are just waiting for someone to say anything remotely positive about him so you can jump all over it with your "OMG you guys are overrating him he fumbled in this one game in 2007, everyone things James Jones is the best guy in the NFL" or some such comment.

[aiee]


You and Texas should go take a canoe trip and discuss what you know about how I think. Jones has concentration lapses, or like my grasshopper always says - shits himself.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#67 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:57:42 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
You and Texas should go take a canoe trip and discuss what you know about how I think. Jones has concentration lapses, or like my grasshopper always says - shits himself.


I'll pass on that. He'd probably tip over the boat.

You and I are on the same side of this, Dakota. That's been happening a lot lately - Raji, Shields, etc. That's a little bit disturbing hahahaha.

It does seem like Jones has made more than his share of bad plays over the years; He also has made some spectacular ones. I think he will get a lot more than $3 million a year from somebody - not the Packers - there's a big difference between 3 and 8.

Bottom line for me is I feel more comfortable with Boykin as the third wide receiver than Jones.

User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#68 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:12:50 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
I'll pass on that. He'd probably tip over the boat.

You and I are on the same side of this, Dakota. That's been happening a lot lately - Raji, Shields, etc. That's a little bit disturbing hahahaha.

It does seem like Jones has made more than his share of bad plays over the years; He also has made some spectacular ones. I think he will get a lot more than $3 million a year from somebody - not the Packers - there's a big difference between 3 and 8.

Bottom line for me is I feel more comfortable with Boykin as the third wide receiver than Jones.



Naw, Boykin is good in the fourth slot. If our defensive player at 21 isn't there, I want Ted to take a big WR and piss everybody off. It would be insurance in case Cobb or Jordy can't be resigned and would also serve a big need for the loss of Finley.

nerdmann  
#69 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2014 9:45:44 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Naw, Boykin is good in the fourth slot. If our defensive player at 21 isn't there, I want Ted to take a big WR and piss everybody off. It would be insurance in case Cobb or Jordy can't be resigned and would also serve a big need for the loss of Finley.



TE, Ted get can WRs in 2-3.
Zero2Cool  
#70 Posted : Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:13:11 AM(UTC)
Packers will NOT be selecting a player 21st overall that will be on the roster in three years.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#71 Posted : Wednesday, February 26, 2014 12:59:38 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Packers will NOT be selecting a player 21st overall that will be on the roster in three years.


hahahahaha you're getting pretty cynical. Even with my fairly low opinion of TT, I wouldn't expect that.

As for WHAT we get at #21, I wouldn't mind that Randy Moss clone Dakota has spoken of, but I don't think he exists. The Texas A. M. kid ran something like a 4.6 forty, and nobody else that size has been mentioned anywhere near first round.

Besides, we need a couple or three good defensive players.

What do people have against Boykin? I expect him to step up even more this year. Same thing with Quarless at TE. I really don't think we need to use a high round pick there either.

Yerko  
#72 Posted : Thursday, February 27, 2014 3:44:05 PM(UTC)
1. Upcoming re-signing of Nelson and Cobb.
2. Rise of Jarrett Boykin. Praise from Mike McCarthy recently.
3. Deep, deep WR class in the draft.
4. Possible return of Jermichael Finley.

To start, I don't think it would be a good idea to not bring James Jones back if Finley is not coming back. The lack of depth behind Nelson/Cobb/Boykin already would be insufficient and if Finley also didn't return, it would make matters worse. However, I believe this draft class of WR and even TE can easily fix the depth problems that Packers would have.
James Jones is going to hit the FA waters and I honestly think another team is going to pick him up. He has become a much more reliable receiver. A team is going to offer him more money than Ted Thompson has in mind.

I think the Packers should focus on a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. There is a very good possibility of a player like Jordan Matthews still being on the board with pick #53.
buckeyepackfan  
#73 Posted : Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:31:23 PM(UTC)
Let's not forget The Packers already have these guys under contract.

Sederrick Cunningham, Kevin Dorsey, Alex Gillette, Chris Harper,

Seeing it is very unlikely a WR drafted this year would make any type of contribution to the team, and with the guys listed above having already went through a year, I think Ted will give them every chance to step up and take the #4 and possibly #5 spots.

With Riley Cooper getting a 5yr 25 mil. contract, that sets a price for Cobb and Nelson, looking very unlikely James Jones will be back.

I still hope something can be worked out, even if JJ is gone, don't think Ted is going to waste a high draft pick on WR.


sschind  
#74 Posted : Friday, February 28, 2014 8:20:29 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Let's not forget The Packers already have these guys under contract.

Sederrick Cunningham, Kevin Dorsey, Alex Gillette, Chris Harper,

Seeing it is very unlikely a WR drafted this year would make any type of contribution to the team, and with the guys listed above having already went through a year, I think Ted will give them every chance to step up and take the #4 and possibly #5 spots.

With Riley Cooper getting a 5yr 25 mil. contract, that sets a price for Cobb and Nelson, looking very unlikely James Jones will be back.

I still hope something can be worked out, even if JJ is gone, don't think Ted is going to waste a high draft pick on WR.




Yeah, there are a lot of FA WR's out there this year who are pretty close to Jones (I think Jones is better talent wise than most of them but he is also older so it kind of evens out. Like I think he is better than Cooper but Cooper is 4 years younger I think) We may see a bunch of these players resigned now that the first one has fallen. If 5 million per year is the target for this level it will probably be too much for Ted Thompson to resign Jones. An if 5 is the target for this level Nelson and Cobb have to be worth 8-9. It also make it less likely that Jones will give enough of a home town discount to make him worth it to TT. I think he would be worth 3-4 million per year (especially if the cap goes to 132 million) but I doubt Ted Thompson would go more than 3 and I don't think Jones would accept less than 4. Can they meet in the middle at 3.5. I would love it if they could.

As far as the 4 guys you have listed I guess I don't really expect much from any of them. They may develop just fine into a 4 or 5 spot guy so yeah as long as they have the year in why not let them battle it out rather than going after another 6th or 7th rounder. I could see Ted Thompson going 2nd or 3rd rounder though to try to hit another Nelson or Cobb to compete for the #1 or 2 spot in a year or so but I don't think its likely if some falls.

User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#75 Posted : Friday, February 28, 2014 10:37:37 AM(UTC)
Jones for $3.5 million a year? I don't see that happening. I think he wants a whole lot more, and I expect somebody to offer a lot more - in the Cooper range at least.

Obviously none of those 4 mentioned are the least bit proven. I do have high hopes, however, for Dorsey and maybe Harper. I would expect one of them and/or a low round pick to be the 4th and 5th receivers.

I still say, I'd rather have Boykin receiving passes than James Jones.
sschind  
#76 Posted : Friday, February 28, 2014 12:18:03 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
Jones for $3.5 million a year? I don't see that happening. I think he wants a whole lot more, and I expect somebody to offer a lot more - in the Cooper range at least.

Obviously none of those 4 mentioned are the least bit proven. I do have high hopes, however, for Dorsey and maybe Harper. I would expect one of them and/or a low round pick to be the 4th and 5th receivers.

I still say, I'd rather have Boykin receiving passes than James Jones.


I highly doubt 3.5 will cut it either and I agree somewhere in the Cooper range is probably accurate. I guess I am not as high on Boykin as you are. He has youth going for him over Jones and IMO that's it. He certainly may develop to be as good as Jones but right now I don't see it. I'm just glad we are talking about who will be our #3 guy and not our #1.

Zero2Cool  
#77 Posted : Friday, February 28, 2014 1:17:56 PM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
I highly doubt 3.5 will cut it either and I agree somewhere in the Cooper range is probably accurate. I guess I am not as high on Boykin as you are. He has youth going for him over Jones and IMO that's it. He certainly may develop to be as good as Jones but right now I don't see it. I'm just glad we are talking about who will be our #3 guy and not our #1.



James Jones 2014: ?
3 TD's
817 Yards
2 Fumbles
2 Drops
59 Receptions
88 Targets
10 Broken Tackles

Jarrett Boykin 2014: $570,000
3 TD's
681 Yards
0 Fumbles
5 Drops
49 Receptions
75 Targets
12 Broken Tackles
nerdmann  
#78 Posted : Friday, February 28, 2014 2:59:23 PM(UTC)
So I guess Sidney Rice is available. lol
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#79 Posted : Friday, February 28, 2014 5:12:09 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
So I guess Sidney Rice is available. lol


I'd take a flyer, on a incentive based contract of course.
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