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Yerko  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:56:51 PM(UTC)
If Houston or Jacksonville are the trading partners, I would be all for trading down.

There's a good possibility that players like C.J. Mosley or Ryan Shazier are sitting there at the beginning of the 2nd.

luigis  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:26:29 AM(UTC)
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
If Houston or Jacksonville are the trading partners, I would be all for trading down.

There's a good possibility that players like C.J. Mosley or Ryan Shazier are sitting there at the beginning of the 2nd.



If CJ Mosley is available in the 2nd round I'll eat my hat without mayo. [grin1]

warhawk  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:55:39 AM(UTC)
I don't see any reason to trade up with the 21st pick. There is plenty of very good football players that will be sitting there unlike other years when we drafted later and true 1st round talent was all but gone.

STAYING PUT: (3 Rounds)
We draft at #21, #53, 85, and, 98


MOVING UP:
Would have to mean losing pick #53.
So maybe we end up with say #16, 85, and, 98.

MOVING DOWN: To late round 1 or very early Round 2
Would give us at least two 2nd round picks and three 3rd round Picks. Ted could also then trade back up two of the third round picks to get back into round two.

I for one have no desire to move up and then watch all these good players go off the board and not pick again until late round 3. I don't see any player between say 15 and 20 THAT much better than the players that will be available at #21 or #31 for that matter worth doing this.
play2win  
#44 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:10:25 AM(UTC)
Yeah, warhawk, I don't know who we would move up for either from the 21 spot. I just don't see it in R1.

What I could see is Ted possibly trying to get back into R1 by packaging a pick from next year with a bunch of other late rounders that he won't really need. That I would welcome in this draft, because we could add that extra impact player a year earlier into our system. I believe we need that kind of help right now. For example, adding a Pryor and Shazier, or a Nix and Mosley, etc while still maintaining control of our R2 and an R3 (comp). Or, as you say a trade up back into R2 could be a good option.

There are a handful of teams that will want more picks than the 5 or 6 they have in this draft.

Rarely do you see a pick and a player type of swap these days, but that could happen too.

I do believe Ted will be just fine holding firm with what he has though. You're right, 4 of the first 98 is not bad at all. Should be fun to see how he moves, if he does.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:28:19 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Well, here is a good link to reference regarding all of Ted's draft day trades, both up and down. The effectiveness of one over the other is certainly debatable.

http://www.packers.com/history/draft-history.html

Ted did well trading back in 2013, netting Lacy, Bakhtiari and Dorsey.

He did well in 2012 trading up for Hayward. Jury still out on trade up for Worthy.

He didn't fare so well trading back with DEN in 2011 getting DJ Williams and DJ Smith, as well as trading back with MIA netting Caleb Schlauderaff and Ryan Taylor.

Traded up with PHI in 2010 getting Morgan Burnett.

Traded up in 2009 with NE for Clay Matthews

Traded back in 2008 with NYJ landing Jordy Nelson. Also traded back with MIN getting Breno Giaccomini and Matt Flynn. Again traded back with STL to draft Brett Swain and with NO into 2009 to draft Jairus Wynn.

2007 traded back with NYJ for Brandon Jackson, Aaron Rouse and Korey Hall. Also traded back with PIT for Allen Barbre and Desmond Bishop

2006 traded back with NE and DEN landing Greg Jennings and Daryn Colledge and Jason Spitz. Back to PHI with Will Blackmon and Tyrone Culver. Back again with STL for Johnny Jolly

2006 back with CAR for Underwood and a pick that was traded back to PHI for Mike Hawkins and Curt Campbell. Again back with NE for Craig Bragg and Will Whitticker.


Pretty interesting when you look at the history of Ted's trades.


More than interesting. It's overwhelmingly in favor of trading up. About the only clear cut successes of trading down are Jordy Nelson and Lacy, and you have to compare them to what teams got in the first round or higher second. That is the missing half of the puzzle - when those trades were made, what did the other side get?

I still say in the circumstance the Packers are in now - needing a little bit more QUALITY instead of a lot more QUANTITY, it is slam dunk obvious to trade up - or else just leave well enough alone if no there is no clear reason to trade.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:36:17 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Unless you are planning on Rodgers not playing for another 5 years, QB in the first is out of the question.

I wouldn't mind moving up for the right player, I also wouldn't mind trading the pick away and using the acquired picks to max out on 2nd and 3rd rounders. The team doesn't have room for high volume of picks, we need more quality instead.


I was ready to applaud this after reading the first paragraph. Then I read the second, which I don't much agree with.

True, we had great success by surprisingly getting Aaron Rodgers when he fell so far, but Favre was a lot older and seemingly nearer to the end at that time. Even then, there was an angst-filled situation 5 years later when the Packers had to decide whether to pay a lot for an unproven young guy and let the old guy go OR not pay the fairly big money for the unproven 5 year clipboard holder. I'd rather get a top quality Safety now than go through that situation again - and I expect Rodgers to be around and good enough for way more than 5 years.
luigis  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:40:48 PM(UTC)
Rodgers will probably joke about his retirement from 2019 to 2024.
play2win  
#48 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 2:58:25 PM(UTC)
Now it looks like Bridgewater is dropping because of a poor pro day without gloves. This guy was deemed by McShay as the most Pro-ready QB in this draft. If he is still there, I'm not going to be shocked if Ted takes him.

Figure in true BPA, with him being one of the best at the most important positions on a team, I could see it. Considering best talent and value with your pick. I would be pissed, a little, but I could see it.

OK. Maybe more than a little...!

I bring it up because we still have 3 fucking weeks before this baby gets off the ground and I'm bored out of my skull. Do you pass?

I do, because I want to win now.
DoddPower  
#49 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 5:49:28 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Now it looks like Bridgewater is dropping because of a poor pro day without gloves. This guy was deemed by McShay as the most Pro-ready QB in this draft. If he is still there, I'm not going to be shocked if Ted takes him.

Figure in true BPA, with him being one of the best at the most important positions on a team, I could see it. Considering best talent and value with your pick. I would be pissed, a little, but I could see it.

OK. Maybe more than a little...!

I bring it up because we still have 3 fucking weeks before this baby gets off the ground and I'm bored out of my skull. Do you pass?

I do, because I want to win now.


If you really think he's the BPA, you try like hell to convince a trade partner of that. Otherwise, I think a team like the Packers has to pass for something else. Although if a general manager did make a pick like that, and he ended up turning into the next Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, it would be genius. The team could then trade their current starter or the young guy for a king's ransom. If that ransom was used well, it could help a team more than one really good player ever could for a long time. It would truly be a genius move, but I don't think Ted Thompson would have the balls for such a risk, and I don't blame him. It's just probably not worth it (unless it actually is). It would just be a HUGE risky investment, but sometimes those who risk big win big.
wpr  
#50 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 6:33:35 PM(UTC)
DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
If you really think he's the BPA, you try like hell to convince a trade partner of that. Otherwise, I think a team like the Packers has to pass for something else. Although if a general manager did make a pick like that, and he ended up turning into the next Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, it would be genius. The team could then trade their current starter or the young guy for a king's ransom. If that ransom was used well, it could help a team more than one really good player ever could for a long time. It would truly be a genius move, but I don't think Ted Thompson would have the balls for such a risk, and I don't blame him. It's just probably not worth it (unless it actually is). It would just be a HUGE risky investment, but sometimes those who risk big win big.


Not to be argumentative, who was a draft a trade that worked out well for the team that selected and traded the player? Elway was the last one I can think of that was a great player who got drafted and subsequently traded but that was because he pouted and would not play for the Colts. The Colts got a Pro Bowl OL out of it but not a HoFer.
play2win  
#51 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2014 7:32:24 PM(UTC)
We'll, I like what DoddPower had to say and I feel pretty much the same. This is one of those instances where we could possibly witness a top player drop in our laps like Rodgers did, and I could see where the pick is made.

Mark Brunnell. Ty Detmer. Matt Hasselbeck. Aaron Brooks. While they are not first rounders, Wolf always took one because he knew the value of a QB, and Holmgren developed them into valuable trade assets.

I would rather get top defenders early in this draft. Would love to add 3 in the first two rounds. But, I'll understand, somewhat, if Ted drafts a top QB that falls into his lap. We say we don't need one, but sure as hell could have used one last season.
TheKanataThrilla  
#52 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:26:39 AM(UTC)
The problem with the back-up QB draft scenario as our team stands now is he does shit for us unless Rodgers gets hurt. Showing off the kid's talent only in the pre-season and mop-up duty will be hard to get other GMs to part ways with top draft picks. I would rather draft a Fales in that scenario as I can possibly see him compete and the risk is far less.
DoddPower  
#53 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:57:46 AM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
The problem with the back-up QB draft scenario as our team stands now is he does shit for us unless Rodgers gets hurt. Showing off the kid's talent only in the pre-season and mop-up duty will be hard to get other GMs to part ways with top draft picks. I would rather draft a Fales in that scenario as I can possibly see him compete and the risk is far less.


I totally agree. But just for the sake of argument, could you, as a general manager pass on a QB if you thought he could potentially be another Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or maybe even Russell Wilson? It's obviously never that clear, but another elite QB like that would be a better pick than a Brian Bulaga, Derek Sherrod, Nick Perry, Justin Harrell, et al. The only way a general manager should pull the trigger when in a situation like the Packers is if they were CONVINCED the QB was going to be an elite player. If there's much uncertainly, then I think they gotta pass.
mi_keys  
#54 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:03:10 AM(UTC)
DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
I totally agree. But just for the sake of argument, could you, as a general manager pass on a QB if you thought he could potentially be another Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or maybe even Russell Wilson? It's obviously never that clear, but another elite QB like that would be a better pick than a Brian Bulaga, Derek Sherrod, Nick Perry, Justin Harrell, et al. The only way a general manager should pull the trigger when in a situation like the Packers is if they were CONVINCED the QB was going to be an elite player. If there's much uncertainly, then I think they gotta pass.


If we were talking about an Andrew Luck falling to us, then yes, I'd take him. I don't think any of these guys coming out are on that level as a prospect. Bortles is raw and I have an inherent mistrust of the run first quarterbacks given their track record in the NFL (if we end up with enough on par with Russell Wilson or RGIII that stay healthy I might change my mind but to this point I don't think the hit percentage has been high enough).

When you're talking about some of the teams at the top of the draft who desperately need a quarterback not wanting to take these guys in the first round it gives me the impression that we're not really talking about bona fide top 10-15 prospects, in which case, I don't really see it as falling to us.
play2win  
#55 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:21:20 AM(UTC)
Those QB needy teams at the top 10-15 of this draft may be playing some high stakes poker this year if they pass on the QBs and select other positions first.

Wouldn't you love to know what Ted's plan is should a big name or two drops?

I'm still of the mindset that taking one of those guys is a luxury we might not be able to afford. Not at this time, with a healthy, capable Flynn behind Rodgers, and Tolzien, who they like, battling for the #2 QB... I want Ted to maximize GB's opportunities with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. Give him the defense this team needs to be a more complete team overall.

Unless he could work out a trade with one of the QB needy teams that would turn more in our favor.
TheKanataThrilla  
#56 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:42:33 AM(UTC)
DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
I totally agree. But just for the sake of argument, could you, as a general manager pass on a QB if you thought he could potentially be another Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or maybe even Russell Wilson? It's obviously never that clear, but another elite QB like that would be a better pick than a Brian Bulaga, Derek Sherrod, Nick Perry, Justin Harrell, et al. The only way a general manager should pull the trigger when in a situation like the Packers is if they were CONVINCED the QB was going to be an elite player. If there's much uncertainly, then I think they gotta pass.


I guess my concern is how would the other teams learn about his eliteness unless through a Rodgers injury? Hell most of us were not aware of how good Rodgers was. He played pretty good filling in for Brett against Dallas, but in fairness their Defense did not practice with the mindset of playing him and they had a pretty decent lead when Rodgers came in. The guys in the locker room were convinced that Rodgers had the ability to start, but when Brett left I think a great many of us were not convinced we wouldn't see a huge step down at the position. Luckily we were wrong and we actually stayed level and in many ways went up.

I like Fales as the back-up of the future that we could flip for picks. I think the NFL Network has helped his stock. I don't think he is going in the 6th round like all the Mocks people are doing recently.

DoddPower  
#57 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:46:41 AM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
I guess my concern is how would the other teams learn about his eliteness unless through a Rodgers injury? Hell most of us were not aware of how good Rodgers was. He played pretty good filling in for Brett against Dallas, but in fairness their Defense did not practice with the mindset of playing him and they had a pretty decent lead when Rodgers came in. The guys in the locker room were convinced that Rodgers had the ability to start, but when Brett left I think a great many of us were not convinced we wouldn't see a huge step down at the position. Luckily we were wrong and we actually stayed level and in many ways went up.

I like Fales as the back-up of the future that we could flip for picks. I think the NFL Network has helped his stock. I don't think he is going in the 6th round like all the Mocks people are doing recently.



I don't know, I can confidently say I was convinced Aaron Rodgers was going to be a very good QB by about his 3rd preseason, and definitely after the Dallas game. I was amazed how so many doubted him at that point. The guy was obviously a baller. I wasn't concerned at all and I'm glad he took over when he did. Of course, I do generally give Packer players the benefit of the doubt due to my bias as a fan, but still. There were plenty of signs there for Rodgers after a couple seasons, imo.
Wade  
#58 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2014 10:37:44 AM(UTC)
Personally, I don't like any of the quarterbacks likely to go in the first few rounds.

I might spend a 5th on Logan Thomas, or a 6th on Garrett Gilbert or Tahj Boyd. But that's about it.

As for trading up generally, I see total of 8 players worth considering:
1. To earlier than #15 (would cost minimum of next year's first rounder and a second-day pick): Clinton-Dix, Robinson, Mack, Watkins, Barr. IMO, all five will be gone by #10, but if they last to 11-15, maybe.
2. To #16-#21: Donald, Lewan, Z. Martin.

If no one offered a trade to later in the 1st or the first five picks of the second, my top 10 at #21 (after the above) would be:
1.Pryor,
2. Ebron,
3. Jernigan,
4. Lee,
5. Shazier,
6. Mosley,
7. Ealy,
8. Verrett,
9. Fuller
10. Cooks.
nerdmann  
#59 Posted : Thursday, May 1, 2014 4:00:40 PM(UTC)

Bridgewater: My Pro Day was bad, but my game tape speaks volumes


Quote:
But while Bridgewater knows his Pro Day left a lot to be desired, he believes coaches, scouts and general managers who watch his game tape will see that he throws the ball a lot better on the field than he did during that workout.


Get him in the 3rd, Ted.
wpr  
#60 Posted : Thursday, May 1, 2014 4:10:18 PM(UTC)


Bridgewater still there at 85? snerk.
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