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mi_keys  
#21 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:05:42 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post

Finley- No
ALL THOSE WR? Nelson- No Cobb- No Jones- No. Jennings did. Bulaga- No.



This does highlight how worthless this metric is in a vacuum. In 2011 and 2013 (Jordy's last two non-injury seasons), he went over 1,200 and 1,300 yards and caught 15 and 8 touchdowns respectively.

In 2011, Jennings went with 949 yards and 9 touchdowns. They probably should've been swapped.

Jordy's played at a pro bowl level. He just isn't technically a "pro bowler."

Edit: fixed the quote box
packerfanoutwest  
#22 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:10:05 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Rick Spielman has drafted more Pro Bowlers for Vikings than Ted Thompson has for Packers.

What the hell ...

klmdwmkevmk
wpr  
#23 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:17:11 AM(UTC)
Just so you know mi, I am not saying Jordy is not worthy of being a PBer. My recent post was saying he didn't get the "honor".

Look at all the years that Marco Rivera played at an exceptional level before he was giving the chance.

edit- I was wondering when I gave that quote. I agree with it just didn't remember when I said it.
steveishere  
#24 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:37:30 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Just so you know mi, I am not saying Jordy is not worthy of being a PBer. My recent post was saying he didn't get the "honor".

Look at all the years that Marco Rivera played at an exceptional level before he was giving the chance.

edit- I was wondering when I gave that quote. I agree with it just didn't remember when I said it.


yeah, the thing with Jordy though is I believe he was one of the main alternates he just didn't have enough people ahead of him drop out to become a "pro bowler" like the Vikings did with their last 2 guys (Kalil and Rudolph). That's why it's stupid to use pro bowls to try and make some sort of comparison.
mi_keys  
#25 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 9:00:37 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Just so you know mi, I am not saying Jordy is not worthy of being a PBer. My recent post was saying he didn't get the "honor".

Look at all the years that Marco Rivera played at an exceptional level before he was giving the chance.

edit- I was wondering when I gave that quote. I agree with it just didn't remember when I said it.


Oh I know, you were simply answering Nerd's question on those players and whether they'd gone.

nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 12:07:51 PM(UTC)
mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
Oh I know, you were simply answering Nerd's question on those players and whether they'd gone.



I'd say Bulaga and Sitton are at that level too.

We got guys.
Zero2Cool  
#27 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 2:58:57 PM(UTC)
A team with more pro bowlers than wins is a team that doesn't play selflessly.
mi_keys  
#28 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 3:52:22 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd say Bulaga and Sitton are at that level too.

We got guys.


Right. Nelson was just, in my opinion, the most glaring omission. Sitton went in 2012. Bulaga has the potential to be a pro bowl player if he could stay healthy and take the next step forward. Cobb definitely has pro bowl potential.

And even if some of these guys don't, falling just short of being a pro bowl player means you are still a very good player. If you had 22 starters, each of whom were just short of making the pro bowl, you'd have a Super Bowl contending team.
nerdmann  
#29 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 5:49:32 PM(UTC)
mi_keys said: Go to Quoted Post
Right. Nelson was just, in my opinion, the most glaring omission. Sitton went in 2012. Bulaga has the potential to be a pro bowl player if he could stay healthy and take the next step forward. Cobb definitely has pro bowl potential.

And even if some of these guys don't, falling just short of being a pro bowl player means you are still a very good player. If you had 22 starters, each of whom were just short of making the pro bowl, you'd have a Super Bowl contending team.


So this is just Spielman's two years as GM? I think he's been in their front office for awhile in varying capacities. I kept thinking he's been around almost as long as Ted.
wpr  
#30 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 5:55:02 PM(UTC)
There is a big difference between being player personnel director and being the GM.


Team(s) as a coach/administrator

Detroit Lions (College Scout) 1990–1994
Detroit Lions (College & Pro Scout) 1995–1996
Chicago Bears (Director of Pro Personnel) 1997–1999
Miami Dolphins (Vice President of Player Personnel) 2000–2001
Miami Dolphins (Senior Vice President-Football Operations/Player Personnel) 2002–2003
Miami Dolphins (General Manager) 2004
Minnesota Vikings (Vice President of Player Personnel) 2006–2011
Minnesota Vikings (General Manager) 2012–present
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#31 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 5:58:13 PM(UTC)
My God, fellas, is the draft here yet? Granted, I have been AWOL lately, but is this all there is to discuss?
wpr  
#32 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 7:13:42 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
My God, fellas, is the draft here yet? Granted, I have been AWOL lately, but is this all there is to discuss?


not at all. there is also Wade's Fantasizing within the realm of possibility

Enjoy
nerdmann  
#33 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:29:27 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
My God, fellas, is the draft here yet? Granted, I have been AWOL lately, but is this all there is to discuss?


Haven't put my board together yet.
sschind  
#34 Posted : Sunday, April 27, 2014 6:37:43 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
My God, fellas, is the draft here yet? Granted, I have been AWOL lately, but is this all there is to discuss?


You were gone?

wpr  
#35 Posted : Sunday, April 27, 2014 7:22:20 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
My God, fellas, is the draft here yet? Granted, I have been AWOL lately, but is this all there is to discuss?


Glad your are back. there is A LOT of pretend draft talk to sort through.
uffda udfa  
#36 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 6:14:18 AM(UTC)
This is one of the biggest knocks on TT... the lack of sizzle players he drafts. It seems the Packers rarely take a guy in Round 1 who is a true game changer. Go back over decades of history and you rarely see it from Green bay, but you'll see it quite a bit from Minnesota.

It's tiring when you get the Vonnie Holiday's of the world while the rivals are getting the Randy Moss'.

Datone Jones vs. Cordarrelle Patterson (I realize Vikes had 3 cuts at it the 1st round and we had only one but we could've taken Patterson)

Ted's round 1 record isn't all that impressive. It's very odd. He is so good with his UDFA's and non first rounders but very middling, at best, in Round 1. If he was somewhat better in Round 1, this team would've won more than just one ring since he's been around, IMO.

I do think the mentality of who Ted Thompson drafts is different because it's Green Bay, WI and not NYC. He works hard to find guys who'll fit in this small market. I do think that is somewhat important. I don't think the majority of players want to play in Green Bay. Charles Woodson is a great example of that...he really didn't want any part of coming to Green Bay but found it was a great place for him. I have to believe Ted Thompson thought he would fit in Packerland or he would've never brought him aboard.

Trading back, this year, makes all the sense in the world in light of his record up higher with the supposed depth of this draft. Can't miss in Round 1 like usual.
nerdmann  
#37 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 7:50:44 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
This is one of the biggest knocks on TT... the lack of sizzle players he drafts. It seems the Packers rarely take a guy in Round 1 who is a true game changer. Go back over decades of history and you rarely see it from Green bay, but you'll see it quite a bit from Minnesota.

It's tiring when you get the Vonnie Holiday's of the world while the rivals are getting the Randy Moss'.

Datone Jones vs. Cordarrelle Patterson (I realize Vikes had 3 cuts at it the 1st round and we had only one but we could've taken Patterson)

Ted's round 1 record isn't all that impressive. It's very odd. He is so good with his UDFA's and non first rounders but very middling, at best, in Round 1. If he was somewhat better in Round 1, this team would've won more than just one ring since he's been around, IMO.

I do think the mentality of who Ted Thompson drafts is different because it's Green Bay, WI and not NYC. He works hard to find guys who'll fit in this small market. I do think that is somewhat important. I don't think the majority of players want to play in Green Bay. Charles Woodson is a great example of that...he really didn't want any part of coming to Green Bay but found it was a great place for him. I have to believe Ted Thompson thought he would fit in Packerland or he would've never brought him aboard.

Trading back, this year, makes all the sense in the world in light of his record up higher with the supposed depth of this draft. Can't miss in Round 1 like usual.


I look at the Justin Harrell pick as a "sizzle" pick. Turned into a bust, but he was taking a risk to get a guy with flashy skills. Worked pretty well when he took Aaron and Clay, not so much when he took Justin.

I tend to be more of a conservative, so I like these "high basement" picks. The Jordy Nelsons of the world are fine by me. Although I'd still try to upgrade Hawk. lol

sschind  
#38 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 9:22:18 AM(UTC)
I just don't think that when you are picking in the last third of the first round there are that many "sizzle" picks. At least not in the way of national media attention. Obviously there are more than 20 very good college players entering the draft every year but those who garner the lions share of the headlines are usually top 15 talents or at least top 15 hyped talents.

That's why when a fan like me, who does not follow college football that much, sees a pick like Datone Jones for example all we have to go on is what the experts say and the experts were not touting him as a top half talent so it doesn't seem like an exciting pick. Sure it is a pick that produces a lot of hope in us just because he is our first round pick and he does have a lot of positives. We can't help but wonder though what it is about him that kept him out of the top 15. This is doubly true when the pick is a linemen, especially an offensive lineman. Its almost as its "Ho Hum" now we have to wait until the next round to get a pick we can be excited about.

Don't get me wrong, when based on previous years record I'd take a bottom 10 pick every year over a top 10. Its just that the perception is that the game changers as uffda put it are the top 15 guys. I know that is not true but but it is the perception for a lot of people. After all, something about these guys kept them from being a top 15 pick. Sometimes it is because there were a lot of really good players out there and they happened to be a victim of poor timing when they came out.

I have high hopes for every Packers pick and in the vast majority of cases I don't have any preconceived notions about them because I don't really know who they are or how they play. In a way that is good because it is rare for me to say "what the hell was he thinking" when Ted makes any of his picks. In a way it is bad because equally rarely do I get to say "now that's how you make a draft pick" About all I can say is "seems like a decent pick, I hope he works out" I guess that is why I don't get as worked up over the draft as anyone else.
gbguy20  
#39 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 9:46:05 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
I just don't think that when you are picking in the last third of the first round there are that many "sizzle" picks.


hits the nail on the head. moving on.
uffda udfa  
#40 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 1:50:55 PM(UTC)
gbguy20 said: Go to Quoted Post
hits the nail on the head. moving on.


There are plenty of sizzle picks available in Round 1... we tend to take the foundational/solid types. Justin Harrell was not a sizzle pick to me at all. Man, it hurts to type that name. I love the draft...favorite event in all of sports but Harrell did nothing for me, and, ironically, nothing for us same as Jamal Reynolds...Ahmad Carroll. Man, have we had some brutal 1st rounders.

Check this link and look at some of the sizzle to be had at the end of Round 1 and beginning of Round 2.


http://www.drafthistory....index.php/rounds/round_1
Ted Thompson just ain't into sizzle. These touted game changers aren't usually his cup of tea.
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