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Offline Wade  
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 5:55:40 PM(UTC)
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Okay, admit it, you dream of the stars aligning just right on draft day so that the Packers can get lucky in (a) teams who will allow Ted Thompson to underpay for a draft up, (b) players will fall just a bit farther than expected and be available when GB is on the clock, and/or (c) teams who will overpay to trade up to GBs slot to pick a position you aren't interested in (e.g., starting quarterback).

Not total-pipedream-fantasy-land like Mack at 21 in the first, watkins at 21 in the second, etc, all the way down to Pryor at 21 in the 7th, but semi-plausible alignment where some player falls and three teams wanting him get into a bidding war, you trade down 15 spots and the player you would have taken is still there or (my favorite) you are in the right spots that you can accumulate more than one or two extra top 100 picks.

So what's your fantasy of the "best draft of at least 5% chance of being possible" given the distribution of talent and need across rounds, teams, and positions":

Here's mine. Not surprisingly it would require at least three opportunities to trade down, two in the first(competition for QB perhaps for one and a WR prospect for the other), and one in the second):

First round -- no picks.

Second round -- three picks, one in top 10 the other two 25 or later: Get three of these five: Tre Mason (RB), Marquise Lee (WR), Jeremy Attaochu(OLB), Stephon Tuitt (DE), and Gabe Jackson (OG). Preference: Mason, Lee, Attaochu.

Third round -- five picks, one in top 10, other in bottom half: Get five of the following: Troy Niklas (TE) or Jordan Matthews(WR); Deonne Bucannon (SS) or Ed Reynolds (FS); Weston Richburg (C) or Travis Swanson (C) or Jack Mewhort (OT); Jordan Zumwalt(ILB), Yawin Smallwood(ILB), or Rasheed Reynolds (CB); and, of course, Shade Tree McCullers (DT). Preference: Niklas, Bucannon, Richburg, Reynolds, Shade Tree.

Fourth round: Two picks, one early and one late. Get two from among: Christian Jones (ILB), Telvin Smith (OLB/ILB), Ahmad Dixon (SS), Josh Mauro (DE), EJ Gaines (CB). Preference: Jones, Mauro.

Fifth round: Three picks, from among: Caraun Reid (DT), Ed Stinson (DE), Nat Berhe (SS/FS), Aaron Steen (OG), Trai Turner (OG), Laurent Duvernay-Taurif (OT), Ryan Grant (WR), and T.J.Jones (WR). Preference: Berhe, Jones, Duvernay-Taurif

Sixth and seventh round -- no picks.

Also acquire a 5th or 6th round pick in 2015 draft, but give up 7th round picks in 2015 and 2016.


Summary: 13 picks. covering 3 offensive skill positions (RB, WR, WR, TE); 3 offensive line positions (C, OT, OG), 5 defensive positions (OLB, SS, SS/FS, ILB, DE, DT). Plus an extra pick next year.

So what's your fantasy Packer draft? Have at it.
Offline Laser Gunns  
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 7:45:45 PM(UTC)
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2a- Troy Nicklas- TE
2b- RaSheade Hageman -DL
2c- Ahmad Dixon -FS
Offline uffda udfa  
#3 Posted : Saturday, April 26, 2014 10:08:53 PM(UTC)
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If we net the nine picks we head into the draft with:

Attaochu
Ward
1 of the following WR's... Jordan Matthews/Donte Moncrief/Cody Latimer
Borland
Keith McGill
Aaron Murray
Howard Jones
Laurent Duvernay-Tardif
Colt Lyerla
Offline DoddPower  
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 27, 2014 10:21:59 AM(UTC)
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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Ward
Cody Latimer



+1

Offline play2win  
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:02:55 PM(UTC)
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So much talk of Shade Tree McCullers. For God's sakes, what has he really done with that 6-8 365? If he can't somehow get more that 1.5 sacks in 2 full seasons... 6 hurries over 2 seasons... I would expect more. And, that's against college talent. What will his #s translate to at the NFL level?

I appreciate his raw size Wade as a NT. But, without the speed needed to make more tackles, sacks and hurries, I don't see how he would be any better than Harrell was for us.

He is without a doubt, one big dude. Can our DL staff coach him up?
thanks Post received 2 applause.
DoddPower on 4/27/2014(UTC), Wade on 4/28/2014(UTC)
Offline Wade  
#6 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 1:49:46 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
So much talk of Shade Tree McCullers. For God's sakes, what has he really done with that 6-8 365? If he can't somehow get more that 1.5 sacks in 2 full seasons... 6 hurries over 2 seasons... I would expect more. And, that's against college talent. What will his #s translate to at the NFL level?

I appreciate his raw size Wade as a NT. But, without the speed needed to make more tackles, sacks and hurries, I don't see how he would be any better than Harrell was for us.

He is without a doubt, one big dude. Can our DL staff coach him up?


First, I admit to being of the "Function #1 of a NT is to occupy two or more blockers per play and clog up the middle" persuasion. So, for me, numbers of sacks, hurries, and tackles don't mean all that much. Raji likely will get a lot more sacks over the rest of his career than McCullers will, just as he was able to get more sacks than Pickett. But he was never as good as Pickett was pre-2013, and IMO he'll never be as good as McCullers either.

What I want to know is how many people it takes to keep him controlled. That, not the sacks, has been my biggest gripe against BJ Raji for most of his GB career -- save for two brief periods at the end of 2010 and the very beginning of last year, he has consistently been handled by a single blocker. This is to be contrasted with Pickett, who, until last year, consistently and regularly required at least two. And in the prime of his career, often three.

Shade Tree will be pre-2013-Pickett, version II. Or better.

Second, Harrell's big issue was injuries. He really never got to show us what he might have been.

Third, the biggest criticism I have seen of McCullers is that of "attitude". And I just don't see that criticism. I swear, every time someone sees a fat guy standing there instead of jumping down rah-rah waving his arms, they say he needs someone to motivate him. I don't even buy that argument with Raji.

Fourth, I don't think he needs as much coaching up as you think. All he needs to be told is "never move backward" and "keep two guys busy on every play you're in the game." Like I said, that's what I want in a nose tackle.

Once you pass 310 or so, it's not size that matters most at NT, and its not speed that matters at NT, its power-per-pound. And I think what you're going to see from McCullers, hopefully on the Packer nose, is really big power-per-pound.

Pickett-level power-per-pound, not Raji-level power-per-pound.

Of course, 365 pounds at Pickett power levels is better than 335 pounds at Pickett power levels. But McCullers is the Shade Tree not because he is 365 pounds, but because he has the power.

Because he has the power to stop movement that a big ol' shade tree has. Cutting down a shade tree takes two people on a crosscut saw, or one honking powerful chain saw. And there ain't many OL chain saws that will be able to take this one down with help.

Hell, you don't need a position coach. Just make the 53rd roster spot Pickett's and have the Ol' Greasy show him the ropes.

But if you disagree, don't worry. I don't expect Ted Thompson to actually pick McCullers. He never picks who I hope he'll pick.

And I'll admit that, most of the time, his failure to do so a really good thing -- though I think I was right when I said he should "reach" for Ngata rather than make the safe pick with Hawk.

But you watch. Don't be surprised if he ends up a day one starter somewhere regardless of where he is drafted. And don't be surprised if he goes a lot earlier than people think (as in *early* second). And really don't be surprised when he makes pro bowl/all pro before anyone the Packers draft after the first round this year. And, unless that first rounder is, say, someone like Clinton-Dix or Pryor, or the result of a major trade-up, before anyone the Packers draft at all.

Just hope it isn't someone in the NFC North.

If I could be the agent for one NFL rookie, this is the guy I'd want it to be. Barring injury, this dude is going to make some agent a crapload of money before he's done.

Because he's going to frustrate the hell out of a lot of guards and centers, annoy a lot of quarterbacks who get sacked by the other guys, and ensure sleepless nights for a lot of offensive coordinators.
Offline play2win  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 2:17:27 PM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
First, I admit to being of the "Function #1 of a NT is to occupy two or more blockers per play and clog up the middle" persuasion. So, for me, numbers of sacks, hurries, and tackles don't mean all that much. Raji likely will get a lot more sacks over the rest of his career than McCullers will, just as he was able to get more sacks than Pickett. But he was never as good as Pickett was pre-2013, and IMO he'll never be as good as McCullers either.

What I want to know is how many people it takes to keep him controlled. That, not the sacks, has been my biggest gripe against BJ Raji for most of his GB career -- save for two brief periods at the end of 2010 and the very beginning of last year, he has consistently been handled by a single blocker. This is to be contrasted with Pickett, who, until last year, consistently and regularly required at least two. And in the prime of his career, often three.

Shade Tree will be pre-2013-Pickett, version II. Or better.

Second, Harrell's big issue was injuries. He really never got to show us what he might have been.

Third, the biggest criticism I have seen of McCullers is that of "attitude". And I just don't see that criticism. I swear, every time someone sees a fat guy standing there instead of jumping down rah-rah waving his arms, they say he needs someone to motivate him. I don't even buy that argument with Raji.

Fourth, I don't think he needs as much coaching up as you think. All he needs to be told is "never move backward" and "keep two guys busy on every play you're in the game." Like I said, that's what I want in a nose tackle.

Once you pass 310 or so, it's not size that matters most at NT, and its not speed that matters at NT, its power-per-pound. And I think what you're going to see from McCullers, hopefully on the Packer nose, is really big power-per-pound.

Pickett-level power-per-pound, not Raji-level power-per-pound.

Of course, 365 pounds at Pickett power levels is better than 335 pounds at Pickett power levels. But McCullers is the Shade Tree not because he is 365 pounds, but because he has the power.

Because he has the power to stop movement that a big ol' shade tree has. Cutting down a shade tree takes two people on a crosscut saw, or one honking powerful chain saw. And there ain't many OL chain saws that will be able to take this one down with help.

Hell, you don't need a position coach. Just make the 53rd roster spot Pickett's and have the Ol' Greasy show him the ropes.

But if you disagree, don't worry. I don't expect Ted Thompson to actually pick McCullers. He never picks who I hope he'll pick.

And I'll admit that, most of the time, his failure to do so a really good thing -- though I think I was right when I said he should "reach" for Ngata rather than make the safe pick with Hawk.

But you watch. Don't be surprised if he ends up a day one starter somewhere regardless of where he is drafted. And don't be surprised if he goes a lot earlier than people think (as in *early* second). And really don't be surprised when he makes pro bowl/all pro before anyone the Packers draft after the first round this year. And, unless that first rounder is, say, someone like Clinton-Dix or Pryor, or the result of a major trade-up, before anyone the Packers draft at all.

Just hope it isn't someone in the NFC North.

If I could be the agent for one NFL rookie, this is the guy I'd want it to be. Barring injury, this dude is going to make some agent a crapload of money before he's done.

Because he's going to frustrate the hell out of a lot of guards and centers, annoy a lot of quarterbacks who get sacked by the other guys, and ensure sleepless nights for a lot of offensive coordinators.


Wade, don't get me wrong. I appreciate the size of this kid, and if he can become a player at NT he could be very special, at 6-8.

I think Pickett is another story entirely. Pick knew the game and played it so well he led all DL in tackles the year we signed him. Kampy was #3 at the time.

Do I want McCullers and Peppers walking off the bus first wherever we go? Maybe. That would be one hell of a sight.
Offline Wade  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 3:24:56 PM(UTC)
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I don't see McCullers as Pickett II yet. PIckett was a first round pick, and even I wouldn't pick McCullers before very late in the 2nd round (not at 21), and then only if lots of players have gone off the board.

But I really think he has the potential to, pardon the word choice, grow to that level.

But, then again, I thought Cletidus Hunt was going to be special, too. Got that one really right, huh?
Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 5:27:14 PM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't see McCullers as Pickett II yet. PIckett was a first round pick, and even I wouldn't pick McCullers before very late in the 2nd round (not at 21), and then only if lots of players have gone off the board.

But I really think he has the potential to, pardon the word choice, grow to that level.

But, then again, I thought Cletidus Hunt was going to be special, too. Got that one really right, huh?


Bit by the Clit.
Offline DoddPower  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 28, 2014 10:43:16 PM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't see McCullers as Pickett II yet. PIckett was a first round pick, and even I wouldn't pick McCullers before very late in the 2nd round (not at 21), and then only if lots of players have gone off the board.

But I really think he has the potential to, pardon the word choice, grow to that level.


I don't really see it. Pickett will go down as a much better player than McCullers will be. I'd be happy if the Packers drafted him, but no earlier than the 3rd round, and even that's a stretch. Will he be overrated by a team? Probably, but I believe they will be overrating him. I think at best, he will be a rotational two-down run stuffer. It will be easy to scheme around him and exploit his weaknesses, unless a team has at least two other great defensive linemen or line backers that funnel some of the attention to him. Lots of defensive linemen would look pretty good with two other really good players beside them.
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