StarrMax1
9 years ago

yeah a system where you have to possibly leave better players on the bench because it takes 2 years for them to learn it all doesn't really mesh well with a draft and replace philosophy.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I may be wrong, and let me know if I am, but isn't it draft and develope?
steveishere
9 years ago

I may be wrong, and let me know if I am, but isn't it draft and develope?

Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 



Both, but I was referring to the way we tend to let older vets walk instead of paying the extra cash to keep them. The way Dom seems to want to run his scheme we would put more emphasis on keeping those guys around until they completely wear out. We'd hang onto guys like Cullen Jenkins, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett even though they are in decline because they are the players on the team that really know the system.
play2win
9 years ago

yeah a system where you have to possibly leave better players on the bench because it takes 2 years for them to learn it all doesn't really mesh well with a draft and replace philosophy.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Right. That kind of pissed me off last season with regards to Datone Jones getting so few snaps.

McCarthy clearly went to the front in assuming a larger presence on defense this offseason, and I wouldn't doubt he had some issues with Capers. McCarthy knows this is important, Ted got the players, Dom has the support and the players he needs to make it happen. Either this defense improves by a great margin or he is out. In Capers' defense in the argument, the lack of players and poor player availability have kept him from succeeding.

McCarthy knows with this offense, all we need is a solid D, some good health and we can ring up another Lombardi. I can't believe it took this long to get a Safety and pass rush opposite Matthews.
Zero2Cool
9 years ago
I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.
UserPostedImage
play2win
9 years ago

I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I love that and glad to hear it. Simple. Let the quality play makers make plays. Dom got way too cute with what he was trying to do over these last 3 seasons, and, actually, he didn't have the play makers, many of whom were riding the hot tub.

Player availability will be HUGE for this Packers team in 2014. Hopefully we see this turn in our favor for a change this year. That, with a simplified scheme on D should help this team top to bottom.
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Both, but I was referring to the way we tend to let older vets walk instead of paying the extra cash to keep them. The way Dom seems to want to run his scheme we would put more emphasis on keeping those guys around until they completely wear out. We'd hang onto guys like Cullen Jenkins, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett even though they are in decline because they are the players on the team that really know the system.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



We seem to keep the wrong guys around IE: AJ Hawk. Perhaps, we've kept him because he's one of the few guys who understood the complexity of the scheme and could call it out properly. If they've dumbed it down perhaps we can finally move on from AJ.

It won't be this year due to salary cap ramifications, but I've been waiting for the day Hawk is no longer a Packer.

Hoping we can get rid of all the turds on D that are only there because they understand the D, not because they can actually make plays.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DarkaneRules
9 years ago
"I hope it works as well as it did that year," Capers said. "We've done that, really, since we've been here. The first year we came in, there's a reason why Charles Woodson was the Defensive Player of the Year. He's a good player, and you do a lot of good things to feature your best players."

Another quote, this time from Capers, also echoing fan and analyst sentiment. Is Peppers the new veteran leader possibility replacing Woodson? Time will tell.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
StarrMax1
9 years ago

We seem to keep the wrong guys around IE: AJ Hawk. Perhaps, we've kept him because he's one of the few guys who understood the complexity of the scheme and could call it out properly. If they've dumbed it down perhaps we can finally move on from AJ.

It won't be this year due to salary cap ramifications, but I've been waiting for the day Hawk is no longer a Packer.

Hoping we can get rid of all the turds on D that are only there because they understand the D, not because they can actually make plays.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I have never understood all the hate for A.J Hawk, but not going to argue with anyone, you get 4 LBr's who play every game, and sooner or later (probably sooner), a team is going to have 4 guys who can just react and play football, not needing to worry about the other 3's assignments.

One could probably say that for any group, it just seems the LBr's position has been decimated the past few years, I might check this, just see how many different guys Hawk has been on the field with since 2010.
El3ment12
9 years ago

I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I hate playing qbs like Drew Brees using a zone defense. We get picked apart all day long.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
9 years ago
I hope all you "its scheme problems and injury problems" people are correct. That's its simply a matter of staying healthy and not putting square pegs into round holes.

Personally, I think its been more of not having anywhere near enough round pegs or square pegs. That Capers has been forced to try to fill holes with smoke and mirrors.

To me the question on defense are all about the quality of personnel:
1. How good is Peppers at this stage of his career? Is he more like Reggie White or more like Joe Johnson? I'm real hopeful here.
2. How long will it take Clinton-Dix to play safety at the level needed? Burnett isn't quite there yet. Collins took a couple years. So did Butler. I'm not old to remember if Willie Wood did. He's going to be good, but I also thing you're going to see a lot of rookie "miscommunication," "bad angle," and "missed tackle" examples. What I really want to see is how his closing speed looks.
3. Will Raji finally become a consistent top-end player? It's possible. I'm not holding my breadth.
4. Will Thornton push for more and more reps, increasing the competition level at DT. Maybe. I'm not holding my breadth.
5. Will Perry show more than flashes? I'm not holding my breadth.
6. Will Datone Jones show significant growth? Maybe. I just don't know. I want to be optimistic.
7. Will they switch Bradford to ILB and will he push Brad Jones into a role player? I really hope so. IMO if Clinton-Dix will be the most important rookie determinant of how much the defense improves, Bradford will be the second, which leads me to the last one:
8. How many plays will Brad Jones and Micah Hyde be on the field. The higher this number, the more we will be bitching about a lack of improvement.
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dfosterf (8-Apr) : Collectively, we need to spend more time in what we have, when analyzing ostendible needs and historical proclivities
dfosterf (8-Apr) : I say he is better than so many of these draft picks
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beast (5-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft has been an offensive player since 2017, 2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 OC
Mucky Tundra (5-Apr) : Odd, why give up a 2025 2nd Rounder for him if you're just gonna let him walk?
Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : Texans to let Diggs be free agent in '25
buckeyepackfan (4-Apr) : 49r's aign RB Patrick Taylor.
Martha Careful (4-Apr) : Reversion to the mean would indicate we will keep it
Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : It's also been utilized in a trade in 14 of the past 20 years
Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft hasn't been made by it's original holder since 2016.
Mucky Tundra (4-Apr) : Gotta imagine that Green Bay vs Houston will be a primetime game this upcoming season
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