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Offline steveishere  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:42:57 AM(UTC)

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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Charles Johnson was injured, though. No one knew at the time just how injured he was but that played a role in him not getting scooped up right away. Packers had barely seen the guy due to his TC injury.

Janis is getting some positive press already and we're not to TC...that is something Charles Johnson never got. Those measurables of his are as good as Julio Jones and anyone else's in the entire league. I recall during the draft Charles Johnson tweeting that he thought the Cardinals would've been smarter to draft Jeff Janis in the 3rd round over the kid they took... John Brown from Pittsburgh State. https://twitter.com/Mrr_...tatus/464962341864747009


There's also the fact that nobody in the NFL thought he was a very good WR. I bet that played a role.
Online nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 9:34:48 AM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
There's also the fact that nobody in the NFL thought he was a very good WR. I bet that played a role.


Charles Johnson? The rap on him was that he was a small school project. Hadn't competed on the big stage, so he was a bit raw, developmental guy.

Then when he showed up, he didn't show anything, because unbeknownst to our crack(ed) medical staff, he had knee ligament damage. These are the same "medical geniuses" who imo unnecessarily ended Nick Collins' career.
Offline uffda udfa  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 1:06:31 PM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
There's also the fact that nobody in the NFL thought he was a very good WR. I bet that played a role.


I'm puzzled by the above statement. How do you know this? He was scooped up by Cleveland. He may have been scooped up much earlier before PS had he been healthy enough to show teams what he could do, but he never got the chance. When he did play in that 4th pre-season game he was running on a bad wheel, and Cleveland still added him later in the year.

Johnson was another one of these great measurable guys from a small school. He was exactly the type we needed...a guy who could actually run and I hate this wording but take the top off a defense. It was disappointing we never got to see him. I'm very curious to see how he fares in Cleveland now that he's fully healthy.

Janis is our only true burner. I'd love us to have a Corey Bradford type again. It's been a long long time since we've had one that I can recall.
Offline steveishere  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 2:48:19 PM(UTC)

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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm puzzled by the above statement. How do you know this? He was scooped up by Cleveland. He may have been scooped up much earlier before PS had he been healthy enough to show teams what he could do, but he never got the chance. When he did play in that 4th pre-season game he was running on a bad wheel, and Cleveland still added him later in the year.

Johnson was another one of these great measurable guys from a small school. He was exactly the type we needed...a guy who could actually run and I hate this wording but take the top off a defense. It was disappointing we never got to see him. I'm very curious to see how he fares in Cleveland now that he's fully healthy.

Janis is our only true burner. I'd love us to have a Corey Bradford type again. It's been a long long time since we've had one that I can recall.


Because if teams thought he was a good WR he wouldn't have dropped to the 7th round.
Offline uffda udfa  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:16:15 PM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Because if teams thought he was a good WR he wouldn't have dropped to the 7th round.


He had a nice turnout for his pro day and had scouts buzzing with the time he turned in.

Donald Driver was also in the same category as a 7th round WR and he turned out okay. Did teams think he wasn't very good or were they just unsure because he went to Alcorn State? Same for Marques Colston from Hofstra. Shoot, Shannon Sharpe is one of the greatest TE's of all time... 7th round. Did the Broncos think he couldn't play? Same for a guy like Julius Thomas now? Did we think Brandon Bostick couldn't play because we didn't draft him?

You are implying that every 7th rounder and UDFA there has ever been teams didn't think they were good players? There is a reason a guy is in the league. Some team somewhere thought they were good. Janis had several teams call him (I believe you may have posted the video clip) and wanted him as a UDFA.

We must not think any of our UDFA or 7th round guys are any good. Year after year UDFA's and 7th rounders make impact for the Green Bay Packers. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams. We must not have thought they were any good...we just got lucky that they turned into our starting CB tandem.
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TheKanataThrilla on 6/18/2014(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:16:15 PM(UTC)

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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
He had a nice turnout for his pro day and had scouts buzzing with the time he turned in.

Donald Driver was also in the same category as a 7th round WR and he turned out okay. Did teams think he wasn't very good or were they just unsure because he went to Alcorn State? Same for Marques Colston from Hofstra. Shoot, Shannon Sharpe is one of the greatest TE's of all time... 7th round. Did the Broncos think he couldn't play? Same for a guy like Julius Thomas now? Did we think Brandon Bostick couldn't play because we didn't draft him?

You are implying that every 7th rounder and UDFA there has ever been teams didn't think they were good players? There is a reason a guy is in the league. Some team somewhere thought they were good. Janis had several teams call him (I believe you may have posted the video clip) and wanted him as a UDFA.

We must not think any of our UDFA or 7th round guys are any good. Year after year UDFA's and 7th rounders make impact for the Green Bay Packers. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams. We must not have thought they were any good...we just got lucky that they turned into our starting CB tandem.


We didn't think they are very good, that's why we didn't draft them before the 7th round. We thought they were better than the rest of the guys available but that doesn't mean we thought they would end up being great players. I'm not saying late round players are never good or cannot be good I'm saying NFL teams obviously don't think very highly of those guys or they would have drafted them sooner. Very few 7th round or later players work out because very few of them are actually good. List the ones that worked out all you want, then list all the ones that didn't and see which list is longer.

I'm not buying the small school player thing either. Plenty of small school guys get drafted earlier than the 7th. Heck a small school guy got drafted a round before Charles Johnson in his same draft class. Brian Quick was a 2nd rounder, a guy got drafted in the 3rd or 4th this last year. Teams will take a small school guy early if they think he's worth it.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:40:20 PM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
We didn't think they are very good, that's why we didn't draft them before the 7th round. We thought they were better than the rest of the guys available but that doesn't mean we thought they would end up being great players.


If you knew others weren't going to draft said player until the later rounds, why would you grab him in an earlier round? Would you offer someone $15,000 for a pre-owned car when you know the sales price is $10,000?

I think this is what GM's mean when they say to trust their board.
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uffda udfa on 6/18/2014(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 6:44:09 PM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
If you knew others weren't going to draft said player until the later rounds, why would you grab him in an earlier round? Would you offer someone $15,000 for a pre-owned car when you know the sales price is $10,000?

I think this is what GM's mean when they say to trust their board.


How would a GM know what every other GM is planning to do in the draft? If we are assuming that the GMs are "trusting their board" then that means Charles Johnson was very low on every GMs board. Trusting the board means taking a player based on what you think his abilities are regardless of what anyone else thinks. Hence a if a GM thought CJ was the 5th best WR for example he would have taken him before 20+ WRs were already off the board.
Offline uffda udfa  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 8:24:42 PM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
How would a GM know what every other GM is planning to do in the draft? If we are assuming that the GMs are "trusting their board" then that means Charles Johnson was very low on every GMs board. Trusting the board means taking a player based on what you think his abilities are regardless of what anyone else thinks. Hence a if a GM thought CJ was the 5th best WR for example he would have taken him before 20+ WRs were already off the board.


This is really no different than drafting for fantasy football in a sense. When you do a fantasy draft everyone has access to the same info just like in an NFL draft with their subscription to central scouting.

Just as Zero said...it's a calculated gamble believing you're going to get value late that is worthy of being taken higher. I remember one fantasy draft taking Vincent Jackson coming off an injury with one of the final picks in the draft...he helped me to the Fantasy SB. VJax was a far better point producer than many guys taken high, and I could've taken him up high but I felt I could pull him late as nobody would be thinking of him. My gamble paid off. It doesn't always. Same kind of thing with LeVeon Bell last year...injured... someone scooped me on him but dropped him and I got him after all.

I'm sure the Packers thought highly of Donald Driver but also knew they could likely get him late so why take Driver high when you believe you can get him late.
Offline steveishere  
#25 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 4:31:21 AM(UTC)

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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
This is really no different than drafting for fantasy football in a sense. When you do a fantasy draft everyone has access to the same info just like in an NFL draft with their subscription to central scouting.

Just as Zero said...it's a calculated gamble believing you're going to get value late that is worthy of being taken higher. I remember one fantasy draft taking Vincent Jackson coming off an injury with one of the final picks in the draft...he helped me to the Fantasy SB. VJax was a far better point producer than many guys taken high, and I could've taken him up high but I felt I could pull him late as nobody would be thinking of him. My gamble paid off. It doesn't always. Same kind of thing with LeVeon Bell last year...injured... someone scooped me on him but dropped him and I got him after all.

I'm sure the Packers thought highly of Donald Driver but also knew they could likely get him late so why take Driver high when you believe you can get him late.


It's not fantasy football lol you think it's more likely that NFL teams had a guy highly rated and just let him drop to the 7th round to get a good deal than it is that he simply wasn't highly rated to begin with? I don't see it going down like that. Every team had a pick in the 6th round presumably that would have been a good deal for a highly rated WR right? Yet he still fell.

Not very likely IMO that we even had him as a 5th roundish WR and took an unknown out of nowhere guy like Nate Palmer first. It's more likely that we had Palmer as a higher rated prospect and took BPA.
Offline play2win  
#26 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:39:58 AM(UTC)

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Um, is this the offseason? [laughing] [laughing] [laughing]

More than an entire page of posts in a Chris Harper thread dedicated to Charles Johnson? Who in the fuck is Charles Johnson? I mean, really, a guy we drafted late, never saw play, hung onto via IR for a year and waived, picked up by the world beater Browns.

As worthless as 7th round picks may be perceived to be, in walks Jeff Janis...

Some picks work. Some picks don't.

Every team invests heavily in gaining more or better draft info than their competitors. Scouting staffs and their evaluations, along with scheduled visits for private workouts, etc give teams their own info on players to go along with the canned info we fans get in Combines and pro days. This accounts for teams stacking their draft boards differently than others.

Some fans wanted heads to roll after our 3rd round selections this year. Were they reaches? We can't really know. If there are 5-8 other teams below us who feel the same player is rising on their board and we take him 10-20 spots ahead of their picks to insure we secure the player, is it really a reach?

Maybe our scouting staff feels the difference between other players on their board near to this selection is negligible based on their millions of $ worth of research.

Talents in scouting vary as widely as talents in playing the game. That is what heightens the fun of the offseason to me with regards to FA, the draft, and UDFA, and we won't know who trumps who until well after the season starts.

July seems very, very far away...
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OlHoss1884 on 6/24/2014(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#27 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:46:16 AM(UTC)

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Enough derailment for me. I am much more excited about the WR competition this year than last year. We've got a lot of so far unknown guys like Harper, Dorsey, and our rookies to compete for 2 or 3 spots it should be fun to see. Hopefully talent decides things and not injuries. We've also got Myles White who made it on to the 53 for a short time last year. The big question is if someone like Harper looks like he's legit ready to play in games do you still take him over someone like Janis who possibly isn't ready to make that kind of impact yet but could be better in a couple years?
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play2win on 6/19/2014(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#28 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:52:46 AM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Enough derailment for me. I am much more excited about the WR competition this year than last year. We've got a lot of so far unknown guys like Harper, Dorsey, and our rookies to compete for 2 or 3 spots it should be fun to see. Hopefully talent decides things and not injuries. We've also got Myles White who made it on to the 53 for a short time last year. The big question is if someone like Harper looks like he's legit ready to play in games do you still take him over someone like Janis who possibly isn't ready to make that kind of impact yet but could be better in a couple years?


Completely agree, and hell yeah, there are some very compelling questions and variables going into the decisions that will be made in establishing our WR group for 2014.

There is some incredible talent 1-9 of all the WRs in house competing for the final roster, including Harper, Janis, Dorsey and White. I don't know about Gillette...

steveishere, after seeing all of them in practice, Harper was looking like he could compete with nearly anyone outside of Nelson & Cobb.
Online nerdmann  
#29 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:55:32 AM(UTC)

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I remember this time of year 15 years ago, when I read articles about how Charles Lee and Corey Bradford were gonna have breakout seasons, because they were rededicating themselves. lol

This team has been very good of late at developing these late pick/undrafted FA types, but I'll wait until I actually see it before I start popping a woody.
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play2win on 6/19/2014(UTC), OlHoss1884 on 6/24/2014(UTC)
Offline sschind  
#30 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:55:06 AM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I remember this time of year 15 years ago, when I read articles about how Charles Lee and Corey Bradford were gonna have breakout seasons, because they were rededicating themselves. lol

This team has been very good of late at developing these late pick/undrafted FA types, but I'll wait until I actually see it before I start popping a woody.



You realize that uffda wants a Bradford type guy right. A fast guy who is just that, a guy. Nothing special. If I were going to look into the Packers past and pick a type I would want on my team Corey Bradford probably wouldn't be at the top of my list.

Just bustin' your chops uffda, I know what you meant. I just couldn't resist seeing as how you and nerd both brought up Bradford
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