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nerdmann  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 12:38:56 PM(UTC)
CAPERS' LAST STAND

Quote:
In any case, the Packers are finally responding to their problems pertaining to youth and health on defense in a "better late than never" sort of way.
OlHoss1884  
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 8:42:54 PM(UTC)
I am glad they didn't scapegoat Capers with the personnel issues they've had but if they are healthy and don't seriously improve I think it's been long enough.

If there ARE a bunch of injuries again I would be inclined to clean house all together. At that point I want a head coach who can address the issue with the staff he puts together. I think the repeated lead in players on IR isn't a coincidence.

User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 9:20:01 PM(UTC)
Capers' thing has always been compensation. We have been damn lucky to have him through the lean years personnel-wise and injury-wise.

It will be interesting to see how he coaches in a situation of plenty. Spot use of his schemes and tricks probably will still help, but I too hope it is more like McCarthy said - more emphasis on personnel and less on schemes.

I've always been a Capers supporter, and I expect him to handle things just fine.
Dulak  
#4 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:05:34 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post


We arnt going to have Greene this year :( - that guy was a motivator. Never seen a coach with such intensity. I think Matthews with miss him the most.

On to Dom ... like him alot better then sanders ... but gets too conservative.
play2win  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 1:46:50 AM(UTC)
Our defensive woes have had way more to do with personnel deficiencies and injuries than Dom Capers. It has taken Ted Thompson 3 years to finally replace the gaping hole left by Nick Collins' loss. I think we might be set now with Hyde, Richardson and Clinton-Dix added to Burnett at S.

Drafting players does not mean the position is automatically addressed. Many of these newly drafted players take about a year to acclimate to the pro game and physique.

Add to it we haven't seriously played in FA until this offseason, and our injuries being over the top, any DC would have struggled. Dom hasn't been perfect either, but I believe Dom Capers will have a great year if we stay healthy. It's been a while since he's had this much talent to work with.
nerdmann  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 6:25:28 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Our defensive woes have had way more to do with personnel deficiencies and injuries than Dom Capers. It has taken Ted Thompson 3 years to finally replace the gaping hole left by Nick Collins' loss. I think we might be set now with Hyde, Richardson and Clinton-Dix added to Burnett at S.

Drafting players does not mean the position is automatically addressed. Many of these newly drafted players take about a year to acclimate to the pro game and physique.

Add to it we haven't seriously played in FA until this offseason, and our injuries being over the top, any DC would have struggled. Dom hasn't been perfect either, but I believe Dom Capers will have a great year if we stay healthy. It's been a while since he's had this much talent to work with.


Dom needs to take the lead in making sure his guys are healthy. If this means standing over them while they stretch, going to yoga with them or cooking them dinner, then so be it. He can also keep guys like Matthews and Perry on a pitch count. That approach worked wonders for Starks last year.
steveishere  
#7 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 7:13:41 AM(UTC)
My problem with Dom is the sheer number of guys who seemingly cannot grasp his scheme (especially on the back end). If you have to keep more talented players on the bench because they don't know the defense as well as vets who aren't very good then you need to make an adjustment. He came in here in 2009 and improved our defense then in 2010 it was great, there weren't a ton of miscommunications and such that we've been seeing and that was only the first two years into the scheme.

It gives the feeling that Dom just kept adding onto his scheme even though a lot of the players that had been in it from day one had moved on for various reasons and the new guys were stuck trying to learn the year 4 or 5 scheme in year 1 or 2. Maybe that's not true and we've just drafted dumber players lately but who knows. Either way there's a reason McCarthy felt like he had to take more control this year. He seems like he was frustrated seeing young guys with loads of talent riding the bench while some underperforming guys kept getting thrown out there game after game.
musccy  
#8 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 7:27:54 AM(UTC)
Dulak said: Go to Quoted Post
We arnt going to have Greene this year :( - that guy was a motivator. Never seen a coach with such intensity. I think Matthews with miss him the most.

On to Dom ... like him alot better then sanders ... but gets too conservative.


You don't need to be the lead singer of a death metal band to effectively coach. Yeah he yelled, yeah everyone knows what he told CM3 before the fumble in the SB, but the LB position has been one of the weakest positions on the team in recent years. Maybe it's personnel, but even so if he was irreplaceable you'd at least expect something resembling chicken salad out on the field the last few years.
steveishere  
#9 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 8:12:50 AM(UTC)
musccy said: Go to Quoted Post
You don't need to be the lead singer of a death metal band to effectively coach. Yeah he yelled, yeah everyone knows what he told CM3 before the fumble in the SB, but the LB position has been one of the weakest positions on the team in recent years. Maybe it's personnel, but even so if he was irreplaceable you'd at least expect something resembling chicken salad out on the field the last few years.


I wouldn't say he's irreplaceable but I do think he maximized the talent of guys like Zombo and Walden and got the most out of the talent that was there. That doesn't mean he's the best or someone else can't do the same but I do think he was a good coach.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#10 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 8:19:45 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't say he's irreplaceable but I do think he maximized the talent of guys like Zombo and Walden and got the most out of the talent that was there. That doesn't mean he's the best or someone else can't do the same but I do think he was a good coach.


I think Greene was a WWF buffoon who we are better off without. It's more likely that the Capers scheme was responsible for the brief success of one-trick ponies like Zombo and Walden - setting them up to do what they could do and hopefully masking what they couldn't (although that mask occasionally slipped off).

musccy  
#11 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 9:22:54 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't say he's irreplaceable but I do think he maximized the talent of guys like Zombo and Walden and got the most out of the talent that was there. That doesn't mean he's the best or someone else can't do the same but I do think he was a good coach.


I more or less agree with Texas. He was a loud meathead.

Around the time he came in there was a lot of chatter among Packer fans wanting more emotion on the sideline, especially from M.M. so Greene sort of appeased that crowd, but in the five or so years he was here, what big results did we see. Yeah Walden had a splash and was NFL DPOW, Zombo was good during the SB run, but those were just a few short-term examples in an otherwise underwhelming LB performance these past few seasons.

steveishere  
#12 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 10:24:48 AM(UTC)
I don't really get the "loudmouth" and "meathead" type of stuff. Seems more like a false perception to me. In all his interviews or times he was shown on camera as a coach he came off as pretty professional to me.
Dulak  
#13 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 10:28:10 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't really get the "loudmouth" and "meathead" type of stuff. Seems more like a false perception to me. In all his interviews or times he was shown on camera as a coach he came off as pretty professional to me.


I really liked what he did with our OLBs - IMO if it were not for injuries we would of decimated offenses.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#14 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 1:03:44 PM(UTC)
Dulak said: Go to Quoted Post
I really liked what he did with our OLBs - IMO if it were not for injuries we would of decimated offenses.


Do you mean Capers or Greene? It sounds like you're talking about Greene, but anything about how to use the OLBs - blitzing, etc. - would be Capers, not Greene.

If that decimation was gonna happen last year, how much more this year with Peppers in the picture?
play2win  
#15 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 1:52:12 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
My problem with Dom is the sheer number of guys who seemingly cannot grasp his scheme (especially on the back end). If you have to keep more talented players on the bench because they don't know the defense as well as vets who aren't very good then you need to make an adjustment.


This makes me think immediately to a Lombardiism, one where he spoke of teaching his players in the most simple of terms.

I wish Capers would embrace more rookies, but then again, maybe those who weren't trusted really weren't ready for the concepts. It is not like he doesn't trust them at all, because we saw quite a lot of trust instilled in both Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde as rookies, and they performed exceptionally well. That, and he has had to prep many rookies to step up for injured veterans in his tenure here, quite a lot.

McCarthy's insistence that they simplify our D, and allow for the talent to produce more than scheme is refreshing, and I do think it will render some really positive results. We may see exceptional results if we can stay healthy.
Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 1:59:55 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
This makes me think immediately to a Lombardiism, one where he spoke of teaching his players in the most simple of terms.

I wish Capers would embrace more rookies, but then again, maybe those who weren't trusted really weren't ready for the concepts. It is not like he doesn't trust them at all, because we saw quite a lot of trust instilled in both Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde as rookies, and they performed exceptionally well. That, and he has had to prep many rookies to step up for injured veterans in his tenure here, quite a lot.

McCarthy's insistence that they simplify our D, and allow for the talent to produce more than scheme is refreshing, and I do think it will render some really positive results. We may see exceptional results if we can stay healthy.


I am not sure if trust was instilled in Casey Hayward, or if trust was earned by his play.

Rookies shouldn't be given anything. They should be forced to earn they way onto the field, as should every player.
play2win  
#17 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 3:07:46 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I am not sure if trust was instilled in Casey Hayward, or if trust was earned by his play.

Rookies shouldn't be given anything. They should be forced to earn they way onto the field, as should every player.


Semantics. He won the position and they trusted him to do a good job within the system and he did... Right? He earned it. I am really looking forward to seeing him play this year and for him to stay healthy. He has some incredible ball skills, and great instincts for the game.
OlHoss1884  
#18 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 3:43:47 PM(UTC)
Something I remember being talked about during the draft was how the Steelers tended to draft guys to "redshirt" them on the defense for a year or two then have them step in. I wonder, since Capers comes from the LeBeau school of defense if it's the nature of the zone blitz scheme to take a year or two to acclimate to it before being ready to contribute.

With the Packers method of drafting talent this would seem to be the way to build it, but like with the age and infirmity hitting the Steelers now, it can be a problem if you need to replace someone right away. For them, look at the issues with no Casey Hampton and an injured Polamalu.

I am not sure simplifying things will necessarily be enough but I DO like the build up of talent over the last few ywars. While it isn't a top 5 defense I just don't see any more glaring needs on that side of the ball.
musccy  
#19 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 3:56:42 PM(UTC)
OlHoss1884 said: Go to Quoted Post
Something I remember being talked about during the draft was how the Steelers tended to draft guys to "redshirt" them on the defense for a year or two then have them step in. I wonder, since Capers comes from the LeBeau school of defense if it's the nature of the zone blitz scheme to take a year or two to acclimate to it before being ready to contribute.

With the Packers method of drafting talent this would seem to be the way to build it, but like with the age and infirmity hitting the Steelers now, it can be a problem if you need to replace someone right away. For them, look at the issues with no Casey Hampton and an injured Polamalu.

I am not sure simplifying things will necessarily be enough but I DO like the build up of talent over the last few ywars. While it isn't a top 5 defense I just don't see any more glaring needs on that side of the ball.


Rookies are 21-22 year old kids - they have not fully developed their speed, strength, or general physical maturity, so to rely on or expect any rookie to be a significant contributor at any position is a poor reflection of the depth and development of your football team.





nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 4:11:55 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't really get the "loudmouth" and "meathead" type of stuff. Seems more like a false perception to me. In all his interviews or times he was shown on camera as a coach he came off as pretty professional to me.


Greene wasn't the only coach who walked away inexplicably this offseason. It seems to me that something's up, one way or another. Either they were told to take a walk, or they chose to, because they didn't like what was (or wasn't?) going on. We just don't know.
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