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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 11:45:53 AM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra

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JSOnline said:
He’s arguably the best outside linebacker in football. He’s played in four Pro Bowls, posted double-digit sack totals three times, and completely changes how the Packers play defense. But Clay Matthews still has one gigantic hurdle to overcome.


Quote:
Hawk, now in his ninth season, led the Packers in tackles last year (153) for the fifth time in his career. He also had a career-high five sacks and was part of three turnover plays after being shut out in that department for 2½ seasons.

But Hawk's lack of speed, athleticism and his inability to shed blocks will always be liabilities.


So as long as he's not slower and less athletic than the guy with the ball and not blocked, AJ Hawk will make a play...well then.
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uffda udfa on 7/16/2014(UTC), DakotaT on 7/16/2014(UTC)
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Offline uffda udfa  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:07:37 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Hawk and Matthews... two moves of TT's that deserve scrutiny. Hawk has been nothing close to what a 5th overall pick should give to you. Your MLB or now one of your ILB's SHOULD lead your team in tackles. Who else?

Hawk should've never been given the contract he was given after our SB victory. I'm hoping this is his last season with us... too much dead money to cut and they surely wouldn't after he finally started playing last year, finally. No turnover plays in 2.5 seasons??? That is almost impossible to be that unproductive in that area.

Matthews is no doubt a force. He is also an injury riddled one. If we hadn't paid him someone surely would've but the question is was it wise to dump that kind of money into a guy who is that injury prone? Yeah, it'll be nice having him for a few games next season. Always with hammy issues and now a thumb that could end his career. Just a shame. We have so little star power (only Rodgers and Matthews) and half of it is unlikely to play a full season year after year.

It'd be nice to get a Woodson type impact player in FA who wasn't close to the end so we could enjoy him for several seasons because we've had such a tough time drafting defensive talent.

I wonder how many games we'll get out of Clay this season before some injury happens and he's either out for the season or for several games that are important to us.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:29:04 PM(UTC)
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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Hawk and Matthews... two moves of TT's that deserve scrutiny. Hawk has been nothing close to what a 5th overall pick should give to you. Your MLB or now one of your ILB's SHOULD lead your team in tackles. Who else?

Hawk should've never been given the contract he was given after our SB victory. I'm hoping this is his last season with us... too much dead money to cut and they surely wouldn't after he finally started playing last year, finally. No turnover plays in 2.5 seasons??? That is almost impossible to be that unproductive in that area.

Matthews is no doubt a force. He is also an injury riddled one. If we hadn't paid him someone surely would've but the question is was it wise to dump that kind of money into a guy who is that injury prone? Yeah, it'll be nice having him for a few games next season. Always with hammy issues and now a thumb that could end his career. Just a shame. We have so little star power (only Rodgers and Matthews) and half of it is unlikely to play a full season year after year.

It'd be nice to get a Woodson type impact player in FA who wasn't close to the end so we could enjoy him for several seasons because we've had such a tough time drafting defensive talent.

I wonder how many games we'll get out of Clay this season before some injury happens and he's either out for the season or for several games that are important to us.


I would argue that Hawk is exactly what I want in a #5 pick. He has been someone you can pencil in as a starter every week, every year. Flashy? No. Maybe not even significantly above average. But consistent. He has missed 2 games in 8 years. Isn't that what you need from a #1?

Matthews is now averaging 14 games/ yr. and the trend is not getting better. He missed way more games last year than Hawk has in his entire career.

I believe that Matthew's injuries are one reason we now have Peppers. Ted Thompson realized he needed another impact player to passrush in all the games Clay misses. So how much money is invested in the passrusher position now?
Offline uffda udfa  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:35:08 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
I would argue that Hawk is exactly what I want in a #5 pick. He has been someone you can pencil in as a starter every week, every year. Flashy? No. Maybe not even significantly above average. But consistent. He has missed 2 games in 8 years. Isn't that what you need from a #1?

Matthews is now averaging 14 games/ yr. and the trend is not getting better. He missed way more games last year than Hawk has in his entire career.

I believe that Matthew's injuries are one reason we now have Peppers. Ted Thompson realized he needed another impact player to passrush in all the games Clay misses. So how much money is invested in the passrusher position now?


That is what you want from a 5th overall pick? Mediocrity? You get so few chances to draft that high... one time in several decades in the top 5 and that is the guy we got? I truly don't understand what I'm reading here from some of you. Hawk is an absolute JOKE as a 5th overall. Had he been a 4th rounder then I'd be fine with it. That is the kind of player he's been...a 4th round type. The fact you have to talk about injuries to validate him shows how little else there is to say about him. Every MLB or ILB tackle totals are high. They should be...that is the function of the middle of your D as a LB...making tackles. If you make them 5 yards down the field consistently that ain't good but you can run and scream that he's made a bunch of them. The guy went 2.5 SEASONS without a splash play...that is almost impossible with luck and all on your side to make at least one.

AJ Hawk has been nothing short of a major disappointment and has a contract that is insane for what he brings to this team.
Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:08:15 PM(UTC)
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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
That is what you want from a 5th overall pick? Mediocrity? You get so few chances to draft that high... one time in several decades in the top 5 and that is the guy we got? I truly don't understand what I'm reading here from some of you. Hawk is an absolute JOKE as a 5th overall. Had he been a 4th rounder then I'd be fine with it. That is the kind of player he's been...a 4th round type. The fact you have to talk about injuries to validate him shows how little else there is to say about him. Every MLB or ILB tackle totals are high. They should be...that is the function of the middle of your D as a LB...making tackles. If you make them 5 yards down the field consistently that ain't good but you can run and scream that he's made a bunch of them. The guy went 2.5 SEASONS without a splash play...that is almost impossible with luck and all on your side to make at least one.

AJ Hawk has been nothing short of a major disappointment and has a contract that is insane for what he brings to this team.


You're not going to be alone or ostracized in this argument. Hell, we might even get Uncle Buck to rejoin us with his Hawk love.
Offline Mucky Tundra  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:22:38 PM(UTC)
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The thing is, I'm over him not living up to the bill of being a #5 overall draft pick. What I'm not thrilled is his salary doesn't really match up with his play.
Offline nerdmann  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:34:18 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
I would argue that Hawk is exactly what I want in a #5 pick. He has been someone you can pencil in as a starter every week, every year. Flashy? No. Maybe not even significantly above average. But consistent. He has missed 2 games in 8 years. Isn't that what you need from a #1?

Matthews is now averaging 14 games/ yr. and the trend is not getting better. He missed way more games last year than Hawk has in his entire career.

I believe that Matthew's injuries are one reason we now have Peppers. Ted Thompson realized he needed another impact player to passrush in all the games Clay misses. So how much money is invested in the passrusher position now?


Say what you want about Matthews and his injuries, but he came back early last year with a broken thumb, cut the last off before he should have and THAT is why he re broke the thumb. I'll take that guy every time.

The reason we have Peppers is because he was willing to accept Ted's offer, plain and simple. Ted's not breaking the bank. He's doing what he always does. Peppers was merely willing to go along with it.
Offline DakotaT  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:38:29 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about Matthews and his injuries, but he came back early last year with a broken thumb, cut the last off before he should have and THAT is why he re broke the thumb. I'll take that guy every time.

The reason we have Peppers is because he was willing to accept Ted's offer, plain and simple. Ted's not breaking the bank. He's doing what he always does. Peppers was merely willing to go along with it.


Peppers came for a shot at the title. He knows better than anybody what we have at quarterback.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:40:02 PM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Peppers came for a shot at the title. He knows better than anybody what we have at quarterback.


So, ... what you're saying is Julius Peppers is aware Aaron Rodgers = statwhore??
thanks Post received 3 applause.
Yerko on 7/16/2014(UTC), Dexter_Sinister on 7/16/2014(UTC), earthquake on 7/17/2014(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:18:49 AM(UTC)
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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
That is what you want from a 5th overall pick? Mediocrity? You get so few chances to draft that high... one time in several decades in the top 5 and that is the guy we got? I truly don't understand what I'm reading here from some of you. Hawk is an absolute JOKE as a 5th overall. Had he been a 4th rounder then I'd be fine with it. That is the kind of player he's been...a 4th round type. The fact you have to talk about injuries to validate him shows how little else there is to say about him. Every MLB or ILB tackle totals are high. They should be...that is the function of the middle of your D as a LB...making tackles. If you make them 5 yards down the field consistently that ain't good but you can run and scream that he's made a bunch of them. The guy went 2.5 SEASONS without a splash play...that is almost impossible with luck and all on your side to make at least one.

AJ Hawk has been nothing short of a major disappointment and has a contract that is insane for what he brings to this team.


So Hayward and Perry are less disappointing players? Both high draft picks. Hayward and Perry have certainly made some impact plays.

A player is supposed to play. Hawk does that. Every game. Who's his backup? Doesn't matter. All of us know who Clay's backup is as he will be playing prominent minutes.

In 2006 draft, Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, Vince Young and D'Brickashaw Ferguson were picked above AJ. Williams has had injury issues and is not on the same team that drafted him. Bush is on his 3rd team and has never lived up to expectations. Young was a bad pick to start with. Ferguson has been solid for the Jets.

From the Packer standpoint, I would say that Hawk is a better pick than Bush or Young. About even with Williams and behind Ferguson. Either the entire draft is a disappointment or your standards are too high.

The player picked #5 in 2005 was Cadillac Williams. Is he headed to the HOF? He only played 2 complete seasons. Was injured or bad the other 5. Averaged only 3.8 yds/ carry. 4,038 yards in 7 seasons or 577/ year. If that is the standard for #5 picks, AJ is awesome!

The player picked #5 in 2007 was Levi Brown. He is currently out of the league. He played 81 games in 7 years with the Cardinals and Steelers. Just 4 games in the last 2 years. No post season honors. Nothing remarkable at all. Just average when not injured. Essentially, he was an average player for 5 years. AJ has been average for 8. Which is better?
thanks Post received 1 applause.
AbbaGav on 7/17/2014(UTC)
Offline StarrMax1  
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:43:28 AM(UTC)
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AJ hawk was 1 of 2 defensive players last year that was on the field over 1000 plays(Tramon Williams the other).

I hope to hell that Hawk isn't on the field for over 1000 plays this year, if he is, that means that once again, like so many years in the past, he is the only LB who can stay healthy.

It's just amazing how Hawk gets lambasted every year for being able to stay on the field and do his job at a pretty high level.

I checked this stat when this same subject came up a month or so ago.

Since 2010 there have been 25 different lbr's who have started games with Hawk.

Most were rookies and street FA's who had to be brought in in an emergency because the other starters were out.

Pretty funny actually to read how Hawk is one of the big reasons The Packers run defense went into the tank last year, when by week 6 or 7 he was once again the only starter left on the field.

Haters hate, never gonna change, every team needs those guys who know the defense, not only know what their assignment is, but everyone elses is also.

Hawks that LB for The Packers.

Again, If AJ Hawk is on the field for 1000+ plays this year, then The Packers will once again be going through injury problems.

Edit: this article just appeared in news feed, makes sense.

http://lombardiave.com/2...-jim-ringo-jim-carter/2/
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QCHuskerFan on 7/17/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#12 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:36:35 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
So Hayward and Perry are less disappointing players? Both high draft picks. Hayward and Perry have certainly made some impact plays.

A player is supposed to play. Hawk does that. Every game. Who's his backup? Doesn't matter. All of us know who Clay's backup is as he will be playing prominent minutes.

In 2006 draft, Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, Vince Young and D'Brickashaw Ferguson were picked above AJ. Williams has had injury issues and is not on the same team that drafted him. Bush is on his 3rd team and has never lived up to expectations. Young was a bad pick to start with. Ferguson has been solid for the Jets.

From the Packer standpoint, I would say that Hawk is a better pick than Bush or Young. About even with Williams and behind Ferguson. Either the entire draft is a disappointment or your standards are too high.

The player picked #5 in 2005 was Cadillac Williams. Is he headed to the HOF? He only played 2 complete seasons. Was injured or bad the other 5. Averaged only 3.8 yds/ carry. 4,038 yards in 7 seasons or 577/ year. If that is the standard for #5 picks, AJ is awesome!

The player picked #5 in 2007 was Levi Brown. He is currently out of the league. He played 81 games in 7 years with the Cardinals and Steelers. Just 4 games in the last 2 years. No post season honors. Nothing remarkable at all. Just average when not injured. Essentially, he was an average player for 5 years. AJ has been average for 8. Which is better?


About even with Mario Williams? Mario has averaged nearly 10 sacks a season for 8 years. He had one season he appeared in only 5 games which keeps his average slightly below 10/season. Last year he had 13 sacks. I can't see how a guy who impacts games the way Mario Williams does could ever be compared to a steady eddie like AJ Hawk? The comparison of being "even" is way off to me. They're not even in the same strata. Hawk goes 2.5 seasons with ZERO splash plays but "at least he's on the field" is the battle cry for him? I admire durability but it fits nowhere with the much preferred productivity. If you could choose, right now... Hawk or Williams are you telling me you'd just keep AJ? Gimme Mario, yesterday.

I consider Nick Perry to be a major disappointment due to health. Casey Hayward I consider a budding young star who had an excellent 1st season and a lost 2nd. Perry has shown some exciting things but I question that guys heart. I don't see the passion for the game out of him.

Obviously, you've gotten past the idea he's a 5th overall and way overpaid. I haven't on either front.

Hawk is a middling steady player. Nothing spectacular or worthy of getting excited about. There's definitely a lot better out there. Why we haven't found it or tried very hard is beyond me. He's a ZERO time probowl starter... Mario has 3 starts.

I love this quote from Hawk from JSOnline.com:

Yes, he absolutely wishes he could make more big plays.

"I'd love to," he says. "I'd love to get more picks, force more fumbles and get more sacks. I'm constantly trying. I don't really have an answer, I guess."

---At least he's not making excuses for not being good enough. I admire that as much as his durability.


Offline nerdmann  
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:44:23 PM(UTC)
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Is Perry a disappointment, or is Dom an asshole for not putting him on the side where he is clearly much better?

Is it his fault that he's injured all the time, or is he on a team for which there is no accountability when it comes to injuries?
Offline DakotaT  
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:11:02 PM(UTC)
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Having Hawk on the field too much is not a good thing for our defense. He is clearly outmatched when in coverage, and this is a passing league. But if he is the only guy that can stay healthy, I guess that is what has to be.

I don't understand why we have so many hamstring injuries, but it sure would be nice to go through a season without losing a third of the team's starters to IR. It makes the 2010 season that much more special.
Offline DoddPower  
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:47:19 PM(UTC)
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AJ Hawk is not the problem. Teams can win with AJ Hawk, as the Packers have done. The biggest problem is the players around Hawk and/or the failure to find someone better. Hawk isn't the greatest, but there are many worse players in the league. I have no doubt he would be a very good #2 ILB beside a very good #1. The Packers just can't seem to find a very good #1 ILB, so Hawk keeps having to play that role.

He could be better, but he could be much, much, worse. I'm OK with him. The Packers just need to improve all of the other linebacker positions with players that will stay healthy. At least he showed a little improvement last season. Every team needs guys like AJ Hawk.
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Dexter_Sinister on 7/17/2014(UTC)
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