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Online Mucky Tundra  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 11:45:53 AM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra

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JSOnline wrote:
He’s arguably the best outside linebacker in football. He’s played in four Pro Bowls, posted double-digit sack totals three times, and completely changes how the Packers play defense. But Clay Matthews still has one gigantic hurdle to overcome.


Quote:
Hawk, now in his ninth season, led the Packers in tackles last year (153) for the fifth time in his career. He also had a career-high five sacks and was part of three turnover plays after being shut out in that department for 2½ seasons.

But Hawk's lack of speed, athleticism and his inability to shed blocks will always be liabilities.


So as long as he's not slower and less athletic than the guy with the ball and not blocked, AJ Hawk will make a play...well then.
May not have the best looking number...but it's the sexiest! -David Bakhtiari
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Offline uffda udfa  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:07:37 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Hawk and Matthews... two moves of TT's that deserve scrutiny. Hawk has been nothing close to what a 5th overall pick should give to you. Your MLB or now one of your ILB's SHOULD lead your team in tackles. Who else?

Hawk should've never been given the contract he was given after our SB victory. I'm hoping this is his last season with us... too much dead money to cut and they surely wouldn't after he finally started playing last year, finally. No turnover plays in 2.5 seasons??? That is almost impossible to be that unproductive in that area.

Matthews is no doubt a force. He is also an injury riddled one. If we hadn't paid him someone surely would've but the question is was it wise to dump that kind of money into a guy who is that injury prone? Yeah, it'll be nice having him for a few games next season. Always with hammy issues and now a thumb that could end his career. Just a shame. We have so little star power (only Rodgers and Matthews) and half of it is unlikely to play a full season year after year.

It'd be nice to get a Woodson type impact player in FA who wasn't close to the end so we could enjoy him for several seasons because we've had such a tough time drafting defensive talent.

I wonder how many games we'll get out of Clay this season before some injury happens and he's either out for the season or for several games that are important to us.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:29:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Hawk and Matthews... two moves of TT's that deserve scrutiny. Hawk has been nothing close to what a 5th overall pick should give to you. Your MLB or now one of your ILB's SHOULD lead your team in tackles. Who else?

Hawk should've never been given the contract he was given after our SB victory. I'm hoping this is his last season with us... too much dead money to cut and they surely wouldn't after he finally started playing last year, finally. No turnover plays in 2.5 seasons??? That is almost impossible to be that unproductive in that area.

Matthews is no doubt a force. He is also an injury riddled one. If we hadn't paid him someone surely would've but the question is was it wise to dump that kind of money into a guy who is that injury prone? Yeah, it'll be nice having him for a few games next season. Always with hammy issues and now a thumb that could end his career. Just a shame. We have so little star power (only Rodgers and Matthews) and half of it is unlikely to play a full season year after year.

It'd be nice to get a Woodson type impact player in FA who wasn't close to the end so we could enjoy him for several seasons because we've had such a tough time drafting defensive talent.

I wonder how many games we'll get out of Clay this season before some injury happens and he's either out for the season or for several games that are important to us.


I would argue that Hawk is exactly what I want in a #5 pick. He has been someone you can pencil in as a starter every week, every year. Flashy? No. Maybe not even significantly above average. But consistent. He has missed 2 games in 8 years. Isn't that what you need from a #1?

Matthews is now averaging 14 games/ yr. and the trend is not getting better. He missed way more games last year than Hawk has in his entire career.

I believe that Matthew's injuries are one reason we now have Peppers. Ted Thompson realized he needed another impact player to passrush in all the games Clay misses. So how much money is invested in the passrusher position now?
Offline uffda udfa  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:35:08 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I would argue that Hawk is exactly what I want in a #5 pick. He has been someone you can pencil in as a starter every week, every year. Flashy? No. Maybe not even significantly above average. But consistent. He has missed 2 games in 8 years. Isn't that what you need from a #1?

Matthews is now averaging 14 games/ yr. and the trend is not getting better. He missed way more games last year than Hawk has in his entire career.

I believe that Matthew's injuries are one reason we now have Peppers. Ted Thompson realized he needed another impact player to passrush in all the games Clay misses. So how much money is invested in the passrusher position now?


That is what you want from a 5th overall pick? Mediocrity? You get so few chances to draft that high... one time in several decades in the top 5 and that is the guy we got? I truly don't understand what I'm reading here from some of you. Hawk is an absolute JOKE as a 5th overall. Had he been a 4th rounder then I'd be fine with it. That is the kind of player he's been...a 4th round type. The fact you have to talk about injuries to validate him shows how little else there is to say about him. Every MLB or ILB tackle totals are high. They should be...that is the function of the middle of your D as a LB...making tackles. If you make them 5 yards down the field consistently that ain't good but you can run and scream that he's made a bunch of them. The guy went 2.5 SEASONS without a splash play...that is almost impossible with luck and all on your side to make at least one.

AJ Hawk has been nothing short of a major disappointment and has a contract that is insane for what he brings to this team.
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Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:08:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
That is what you want from a 5th overall pick? Mediocrity? You get so few chances to draft that high... one time in several decades in the top 5 and that is the guy we got? I truly don't understand what I'm reading here from some of you. Hawk is an absolute JOKE as a 5th overall. Had he been a 4th rounder then I'd be fine with it. That is the kind of player he's been...a 4th round type. The fact you have to talk about injuries to validate him shows how little else there is to say about him. Every MLB or ILB tackle totals are high. They should be...that is the function of the middle of your D as a LB...making tackles. If you make them 5 yards down the field consistently that ain't good but you can run and scream that he's made a bunch of them. The guy went 2.5 SEASONS without a splash play...that is almost impossible with luck and all on your side to make at least one.

AJ Hawk has been nothing short of a major disappointment and has a contract that is insane for what he brings to this team.


You're not going to be alone or ostracized in this argument. Hell, we might even get Uncle Buck to rejoin us with his Hawk love.
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Online Mucky Tundra  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:22:38 PM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra

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The thing is, I'm over him not living up to the bill of being a #5 overall draft pick. What I'm not thrilled is his salary doesn't really match up with his play.
May not have the best looking number...but it's the sexiest! -David Bakhtiari
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Offline nerdmann  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:34:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I would argue that Hawk is exactly what I want in a #5 pick. He has been someone you can pencil in as a starter every week, every year. Flashy? No. Maybe not even significantly above average. But consistent. He has missed 2 games in 8 years. Isn't that what you need from a #1?

Matthews is now averaging 14 games/ yr. and the trend is not getting better. He missed way more games last year than Hawk has in his entire career.

I believe that Matthew's injuries are one reason we now have Peppers. Ted Thompson realized he needed another impact player to passrush in all the games Clay misses. So how much money is invested in the passrusher position now?


Say what you want about Matthews and his injuries, but he came back early last year with a broken thumb, cut the last off before he should have and THAT is why he re broke the thumb. I'll take that guy every time.

The reason we have Peppers is because he was willing to accept Ted's offer, plain and simple. Ted's not breaking the bank. He's doing what he always does. Peppers was merely willing to go along with it.
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Offline DakotaT  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:38:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Say what you want about Matthews and his injuries, but he came back early last year with a broken thumb, cut the last off before he should have and THAT is why he re broke the thumb. I'll take that guy every time.

The reason we have Peppers is because he was willing to accept Ted's offer, plain and simple. Ted's not breaking the bank. He's doing what he always does. Peppers was merely willing to go along with it.


Peppers came for a shot at the title. He knows better than anybody what we have at quarterback.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:40:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Peppers came for a shot at the title. He knows better than anybody what we have at quarterback.


So, ... what you're saying is Julius Peppers is aware Aaron Rodgers = statwhore??
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Yerko on 7/16/2014(UTC), Dexter_Sinister on 7/16/2014(UTC), earthquake on 7/17/2014(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:18:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
That is what you want from a 5th overall pick? Mediocrity? You get so few chances to draft that high... one time in several decades in the top 5 and that is the guy we got? I truly don't understand what I'm reading here from some of you. Hawk is an absolute JOKE as a 5th overall. Had he been a 4th rounder then I'd be fine with it. That is the kind of player he's been...a 4th round type. The fact you have to talk about injuries to validate him shows how little else there is to say about him. Every MLB or ILB tackle totals are high. They should be...that is the function of the middle of your D as a LB...making tackles. If you make them 5 yards down the field consistently that ain't good but you can run and scream that he's made a bunch of them. The guy went 2.5 SEASONS without a splash play...that is almost impossible with luck and all on your side to make at least one.

AJ Hawk has been nothing short of a major disappointment and has a contract that is insane for what he brings to this team.


So Hayward and Perry are less disappointing players? Both high draft picks. Hayward and Perry have certainly made some impact plays.

A player is supposed to play. Hawk does that. Every game. Who's his backup? Doesn't matter. All of us know who Clay's backup is as he will be playing prominent minutes.

In 2006 draft, Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, Vince Young and D'Brickashaw Ferguson were picked above AJ. Williams has had injury issues and is not on the same team that drafted him. Bush is on his 3rd team and has never lived up to expectations. Young was a bad pick to start with. Ferguson has been solid for the Jets.

From the Packer standpoint, I would say that Hawk is a better pick than Bush or Young. About even with Williams and behind Ferguson. Either the entire draft is a disappointment or your standards are too high.

The player picked #5 in 2005 was Cadillac Williams. Is he headed to the HOF? He only played 2 complete seasons. Was injured or bad the other 5. Averaged only 3.8 yds/ carry. 4,038 yards in 7 seasons or 577/ year. If that is the standard for #5 picks, AJ is awesome!

The player picked #5 in 2007 was Levi Brown. He is currently out of the league. He played 81 games in 7 years with the Cardinals and Steelers. Just 4 games in the last 2 years. No post season honors. Nothing remarkable at all. Just average when not injured. Essentially, he was an average player for 5 years. AJ has been average for 8. Which is better?
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Offline StarrMax1  
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:43:28 AM(UTC)
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AJ hawk was 1 of 2 defensive players last year that was on the field over 1000 plays(Tramon Williams the other).

I hope to hell that Hawk isn't on the field for over 1000 plays this year, if he is, that means that once again, like so many years in the past, he is the only LB who can stay healthy.

It's just amazing how Hawk gets lambasted every year for being able to stay on the field and do his job at a pretty high level.

I checked this stat when this same subject came up a month or so ago.

Since 2010 there have been 25 different lbr's who have started games with Hawk.

Most were rookies and street FA's who had to be brought in in an emergency because the other starters were out.

Pretty funny actually to read how Hawk is one of the big reasons The Packers run defense went into the tank last year, when by week 6 or 7 he was once again the only starter left on the field.

Haters hate, never gonna change, every team needs those guys who know the defense, not only know what their assignment is, but everyone elses is also.

Hawks that LB for The Packers.

Again, If AJ Hawk is on the field for 1000+ plays this year, then The Packers will once again be going through injury problems.

Edit: this article just appeared in news feed, makes sense.

http://lombardiave.com/2...-jim-ringo-jim-carter/2/

Message modified by user Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:09:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline uffda udfa  
#12 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:36:35 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
So Hayward and Perry are less disappointing players? Both high draft picks. Hayward and Perry have certainly made some impact plays.

A player is supposed to play. Hawk does that. Every game. Who's his backup? Doesn't matter. All of us know who Clay's backup is as he will be playing prominent minutes.

In 2006 draft, Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, Vince Young and D'Brickashaw Ferguson were picked above AJ. Williams has had injury issues and is not on the same team that drafted him. Bush is on his 3rd team and has never lived up to expectations. Young was a bad pick to start with. Ferguson has been solid for the Jets.

From the Packer standpoint, I would say that Hawk is a better pick than Bush or Young. About even with Williams and behind Ferguson. Either the entire draft is a disappointment or your standards are too high.

The player picked #5 in 2005 was Cadillac Williams. Is he headed to the HOF? He only played 2 complete seasons. Was injured or bad the other 5. Averaged only 3.8 yds/ carry. 4,038 yards in 7 seasons or 577/ year. If that is the standard for #5 picks, AJ is awesome!

The player picked #5 in 2007 was Levi Brown. He is currently out of the league. He played 81 games in 7 years with the Cardinals and Steelers. Just 4 games in the last 2 years. No post season honors. Nothing remarkable at all. Just average when not injured. Essentially, he was an average player for 5 years. AJ has been average for 8. Which is better?


About even with Mario Williams? Mario has averaged nearly 10 sacks a season for 8 years. He had one season he appeared in only 5 games which keeps his average slightly below 10/season. Last year he had 13 sacks. I can't see how a guy who impacts games the way Mario Williams does could ever be compared to a steady eddie like AJ Hawk? The comparison of being "even" is way off to me. They're not even in the same strata. Hawk goes 2.5 seasons with ZERO splash plays but "at least he's on the field" is the battle cry for him? I admire durability but it fits nowhere with the much preferred productivity. If you could choose, right now... Hawk or Williams are you telling me you'd just keep AJ? Gimme Mario, yesterday.

I consider Nick Perry to be a major disappointment due to health. Casey Hayward I consider a budding young star who had an excellent 1st season and a lost 2nd. Perry has shown some exciting things but I question that guys heart. I don't see the passion for the game out of him.

Obviously, you've gotten past the idea he's a 5th overall and way overpaid. I haven't on either front.

Hawk is a middling steady player. Nothing spectacular or worthy of getting excited about. There's definitely a lot better out there. Why we haven't found it or tried very hard is beyond me. He's a ZERO time probowl starter... Mario has 3 starts.

I love this quote from Hawk from JSOnline.com:

Yes, he absolutely wishes he could make more big plays.

"I'd love to," he says. "I'd love to get more picks, force more fumbles and get more sacks. I'm constantly trying. I don't really have an answer, I guess."

---At least he's not making excuses for not being good enough. I admire that as much as his durability.


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Offline nerdmann  
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:44:23 PM(UTC)
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Is Perry a disappointment, or is Dom an asshole for not putting him on the side where he is clearly much better?

Is it his fault that he's injured all the time, or is he on a team for which there is no accountability when it comes to injuries?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DakotaT  
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:11:02 PM(UTC)
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Having Hawk on the field too much is not a good thing for our defense. He is clearly outmatched when in coverage, and this is a passing league. But if he is the only guy that can stay healthy, I guess that is what has to be.

I don't understand why we have so many hamstring injuries, but it sure would be nice to go through a season without losing a third of the team's starters to IR. It makes the 2010 season that much more special.
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Offline DoddPower  
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:47:19 PM(UTC)
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AJ Hawk is not the problem. Teams can win with AJ Hawk, as the Packers have done. The biggest problem is the players around Hawk and/or the failure to find someone better. Hawk isn't the greatest, but there are many worse players in the league. I have no doubt he would be a very good #2 ILB beside a very good #1. The Packers just can't seem to find a very good #1 ILB, so Hawk keeps having to play that role.

He could be better, but he could be much, much, worse. I'm OK with him. The Packers just need to improve all of the other linebacker positions with players that will stay healthy. At least he showed a little improvement last season. Every team needs guys like AJ Hawk.
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Offline nerdmann  
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:21:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DoddPower Go to Quoted Post
AJ Hawk is not the problem. Teams can win with AJ Hawk, as the Packers have done. The biggest problem is the players around Hawk and/or the failure to find someone better. Hawk isn't the greatest, but there are many worse players in the league. I have no doubt he would be a very good #2 ILB beside a very good #1. The Packers just can't seem to find a very good #1 ILB, so Hawk keeps having to play that role.

He could be better, but he could be much, much, worse. I'm OK with him. The Packers just need to improve all of the other linebacker positions with players that will stay healthy. At least he showed a little improvement last season. Every team needs guys like AJ Hawk.


Move him to FB, ditch Kuhn.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline uffda udfa  
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:36:21 PM(UTC)
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AJ Hawk is or isn't a problem depending on context.

Is AJ Hawk worth a cap hit of 5.1 million this year? No. It would cost too much to cut him, though, with 3.2 million in dead money should he be released. Ain't happening. We're stuck with Hawk at 5.1 million this season. Depressing to me.

Has AJ Hawk lived up to his draft status? Nope... nowhere near it. A total failure as a 5th overall.

Does AJ Hawk have value in general? Yes...but it's limited and limited to 1st and 2nd down. He's not even a 3 down LB. Again, 5.1 million for 2 mediocrely played downs.

Does AJ Hawk have the confidence of Dom Capers? Yes...he "runs" the D. So, is that a positive. Has Hawk's running of our D been a good thing? Packers think it is. I don't really know.

Does AJ Hawk show up week to week? Yes, he brings his middling skills almost every Sunday.

Did he have one of his better years last season? Yes. Remarkably, so. Not sure how/why this happened considering he had little help around him. Anomaly, or sign of better days for AJ? Hard to say considering he's been average for years and a little better than that last season.

For my money, AJ Hawk is the poster child for everything I hate about our organizational approach. He's okay ...just not good enough but we'll keep on going with him, at least he's reliable and "could be worse".
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:22:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
AJ Hawk is or isn't a problem depending on context.

Is AJ Hawk worth a cap hit of 5.1 million this year? No. It would cost too much to cut him, though, with 3.2 million in dead money should he be released. Ain't happening. We're stuck with Hawk at 5.1 million this season. Depressing to me.

Has AJ Hawk lived up to his draft status? Nope... nowhere near it. A total failure as a 5th overall.

Does AJ Hawk have value in general? Yes...but it's limited and limited to 1st and 2nd down. He's not even a 3 down LB. Again, 5.1 million for 2 mediocrely played downs.

Does AJ Hawk have the confidence of Dom Capers? Yes...he "runs" the D. So, is that a positive. Has Hawk's running of our D been a good thing? Packers think it is. I don't really know.

Does AJ Hawk show up week to week? Yes, he brings his middling skills almost every Sunday.

Did he have one of his better years last season? Yes. Remarkably, so. Not sure how/why this happened considering he had little help around him. Anomaly, or sign of better days for AJ? Hard to say considering he's been average for years and a little better than that last season.

For my money, AJ Hawk is the poster child for everything I hate about our organizational approach. He's okay ...just not good enough but we'll keep on going with him, at least he's reliable and "could be worse".


Hawk is the 5th best player taken in the first round of the '06 draft.

He lived up to his status.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:38:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
Hawk is the 5th best player taken in the first round of the '06 draft.

He lived up to his status.


LOL! Are you serious? So, using your logic, (here we go again) Alex Smith is better than Aaron Rodgers because Smith went 1st overall and Aaron 24th? You should be glad you're not a Niners fan or that's the kind of thing you'd be drafting in defense of your team taking Alex Smith...he was best because he was 1st. Wow.

Vernon Davis went 6th overall, but he's not as good because Green Bay made the mistake of selecting Hawk instead? Haloti Ngata went 9th overall...but he's not as good as Hawk because we didn't draft him at 5? I'll take Nick Mangold or Tamba Hali from that 1st round over AJ. I would mention the guys before him, too, but they're out of bounds because being drafted higher means better? Face. Palm.

Wait, or do you mean that Hawk was the 5th best if you look at the players 1-32 and ranked them?
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Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:58:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
LOL! Are you serious? So, using your logic, (here we go again) Alex Smith is better than Aaron Rodgers because Smith went 1st overall and Aaron 24th? You should be glad you're not a Niners fan or that's the kind of thing you'd be drafting in defense of your team taking Alex Smith...he was best because he was 1st. Wow.

Vernon Davis went 6th overall, but he's not as good because Green Bay made the mistake of selecting Hawk instead? Haloti Ngata went 9th overall...but he's not as good as Hawk because we didn't draft him at 5? I'll take Nick Mangold or Tamba Hali from that 1st round over AJ. I would mention the guys before him, too, but they're out of bounds because being drafted higher means better? Face. Palm.

Wait, or do you mean that Hawk was the 5th best if you look at the players 1-32 and ranked them?


That's not what he's saying, as I read him. He might say that Alex Smith didn't live up to his draft position, because he's not better than the players taken around him, probably not better than Aaron Rodgers.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#21 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:33:46 PM(UTC)
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Who knows, nerd? All I know is there were at least 4 guys drafted AFTER he was that I'd rather have.

When you draft #5 in Round 1 you sure hope you get a lot better player than AJ Hawk. Sadly, we did not.
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Offline beast  
#22 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 8:38:50 PM(UTC)
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I honestly think if Thompson drafted a player that completely busted he would be getting less grief for it than Hawk... for some reason people love complaining about Hawk... who I honestly think was partly messed up by the read and react 4-3 defense they had when he first got here and he kept getting worse after coming from a more aggressive college defense.

Hawk was deemed as the safest pick in the draft... and that seems to be true as he's been extremely solid his whole career. Though he hasn't had the best upside... though I still think he was messed up a bit by conservative defense the Packers had early in his career.
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Offline DakotaT  
#23 Posted : Friday, July 18, 2014 4:51:39 AM(UTC)
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Really, what we should complain about with Hawk and Brad Jones is their contracts. They are way overpaid for the quality of linebacker each is. I'm not sure why Uncle Ted gives these guys the kind of coin they receive, but it is not warranted. All you need to do is compare Hawk/Jones to Bowman/Willis and it is pretty easy to see why the middle of our defense is a sieve.

Hopefully we are a little more stoudt on the D-line this season so those guys can be protected more, but our poor to average inside linebacker play is where opposing offensive coordinators attack.
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Offline sschind  
#24 Posted : Friday, July 18, 2014 6:11:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Who knows, nerd? All I know is there were at least 4 guys drafted AFTER he was that I'd rather have.

When you draft #5 in Round 1 you sure hope you get a lot better player than AJ Hawk. Sadly, we did not.


On the other hand, sometimes you get much worse. I know, I know, there I go again with the "he's OK and that's OK" argument when I really should be bitching and complaining that Ted didn't knock one out of the park with the #5 pick that year. What we really should have done is traded that pick and the following years pick for a player like Jimmy Graham. When you make the pick that 95% of the people in the world think you should pick its not like he reached and took somebody who fell flat on his face. The player might not turn out to be what you hoped but the choice to take him, at the time, was still sound

As much as a disaster Tony Mandarich was you really don't hear Tom Braatz taking too much crap for picking Mandarich in 89 as Mandarich was pretty much the consensus pick there even over Barry he just flopped. Yeah you hear how the pick was a bust but you don't see get much blame thrown at the GM for making it. Its the same with Hawk. Yeah the pick didn't turn out to be a stud like you would hope (like you hope with every pick) but when you take that guy that most people think you should take how can it really be a bad pick?

You say it was a no brainer for Ted to pick Rodgers (or at least some people say that maybe not you) but there was probably far less consensus there than with Hawk. If the Rodgers pick was a no brainer then the Hawk pick was even more so.

IMO after the 4th or 5th season it really doesn't matter what round a guy was drafted in. After 5 years in the league would you take Ryan Leaf or Tom Brady? You have what you have, A superstar, a star, a contributor or a dud. It doesn't matter if you got them in the first round or as an UDFA the important factor is that you got him. Its like the 12 year vets announcing what college they went to in game intros. Who the hell cares, you probably didn't get a degree anyway and from the way it sounds many of them can't even read or write.
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Offline steveishere  
#25 Posted : Friday, July 18, 2014 6:19:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Who knows, nerd? All I know is there were at least 4 guys drafted AFTER he was that I'd rather have.

When you draft #5 in Round 1 you sure hope you get a lot better player than AJ Hawk. Sadly, we did not.


You hope you do but it matters how good the rest of the players you had to choose from are if you are going to use hindsight to judge it. There were better players than Hawk available sure but not that many and they weren't that much better. I'm fine with getting Hawk in that draft but for example if we had drafted top 5 in 2011 and gotten someone of Hawks calibre it wouldn't be quite as fine because that draft was completely loaded at the top with elite talent.

Just saying top 5 pick must be elite or bust is way to simple of a judgement to make for something as complex as the draft.
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