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Offline uffda udfa  
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 9, 2014 10:35:33 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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B U S T? This guy is another disappointment as a high draft pick on defense. He was drafted to be an Aldon Smith type and he's been on the field the equivalent of what Aldon Smith has been off it... not very good.

His non descript performance tonight along with his hum drum TC should be sending warning alarms. This a major problem for our defense if it hopes to be better than the brutal product we've rolled out the past few seasons.

I think I'm ready to give up on Datone. There is that point for every player where they either become something or they're given up on. For me, that time is now. Another miss on defense for us. It's added up and afforded us what we are... a defense not anywhere near good enough to take us back to the show. Josh Boyd got more time than him last year as a late round pick, and if you watched tonight there's no question who the better player is. You just can't have that happen... your first rounder is nowhere near as good as the guy you drafted at the end of a draft.

Internally, there has to be panic over this issue. Meanwhile, we extended the guy who keeps burning high draft picks on defensive players who turn out to be garbage. Very frustrating.

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Offline Laser Gunns  
#2 Posted : Saturday, August 9, 2014 11:52:26 PM(UTC)
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Not yet..

But he certainly has run his mouth a lot,
A lot more than what he has shown.

Also, Aldon Smith is a linebacker, Jones is a lineman.

On the bright side... hHCD made some darn good plays today.


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Online Mucky Tundra  
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 12:15:34 AM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra

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I'm not sure if the problem is so much as Jones as not having LBs who can step up and stop the ball carrier on cut backs. I distinctly remember Jones and Daniels getting in the backfield 2-3 times each only to see the RB go another way/cut back and go where our guys just came from with no one to clean up (same problem that killed us against Peterson in 2012). There were few times when they did good (Barrington flew into the hole like a bat out of hell and stuffed the RB for a 2 yard gain one play) but after that game I'm far more worried about the guys immediately behind them.

(And for the record, I'm SO happy I didn't try to go down and see this game)

Message modified by user Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:29:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline nerdmann  
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:11:55 AM(UTC)
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Wasn't even on my draft board, because he's yet another player that doesn't fit our scheme.

That said, I haven't given up on him. I think the added weight he's put on might be slowing him down some. He was much more explosive pre-injury last year.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Online Mucky Tundra  
#5 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:36:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Wasn't even on my draft board, because he's yet another player that doesn't fit our scheme.

That said, I haven't given up on him. I think the added weight he's put on might be slowing him down some. He was much more explosive pre-injury last year.


Don't Sleep on Brandon Bostick
Quote:
Demovsky: Datone Jones has shown bursts of a little bit more power in his game this summer. Even though he did well in the one-on-one pass rushing drills last summer, it was almost always with speed. This year, he has bull-rushed more. It's early, but his 6-4 record in the one-on-on drill is a good sign. Anything close to .500 is a great mark for a defensive player. He also is getting the chance to rep more in the base defense, something he almost never did last season as a rookie. We should get the opportunity to see what kind of player he can be against the run.


Might be the difference between this year and last?
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Offline earthquake  
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 7:11:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
B U S T? This guy is another disappointment as a high draft pick on defense. He was drafted to be an Aldon Smith type and he's been on the field the equivalent of what Aldon Smith has been off it... not very good.

His non descript performance tonight along with his hum drum TC should be sending warning alarms. This a major problem for our defense if it hopes to be better than the brutal product we've rolled out the past few seasons.

I think I'm ready to give up on Datone. There is that point for every player where they either become something or they're given up on. For me, that time is now. Another miss on defense for us. It's added up and afforded us what we are... a defense not anywhere near good enough to take us back to the show. Josh Boyd got more time than him last year as a late round pick, and if you watched tonight there's no question who the better player is. You just can't have that happen... your first rounder is nowhere near as good as the guy you drafted at the end of a draft.

Internally, there has to be panic over this issue. Meanwhile, we extended the guy who keeps burning high draft picks on defensive players who turn out to be garbage. Very frustrating.



Lol what? He's a bust because he didn't light it up in a preseason game? Feel free to look up dude, the sky isn't falling yet.

Also, using Aldon Smith as the measure of success for a 3-4 DE is ridiculous, if that is the standard, every 3-4 DE aside from J.J Watt is terrible.

I think it would be reasonable to at least let him play in some real games before freaking out. Remember he was injured much of his rookie year.
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Offline OlHoss1884  
#7 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:45:40 AM(UTC)
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1) Aldon Smith is an outside LB who is only effective when Justin Smith is holding blockers.
) It's not just that it was a preseason game, it was a preseason game in a monsoon. I am no0t going to make too many judgements about individual performances trying to evaluate people under the circumstancs
3) even Julius Peppers didn't get his name on the stat sheet, but, again, I think the weather was part of it
4) the Titans have a really good O-Line. I was pleased to see our guys hold up at all at the point of attack. More pass rush would have been nice, but I am not taking too much away from this one
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
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Offline uffda udfa  
#8 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:04:49 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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I'm not freaked out... just believe Datone is another miss on defense. Another guy who was supposed to be a difference maker who isn't. When we get to the point where we have to justify things we don't really see that's when you're in bust territory. I'm not expecting to see him be something for us. This is just another guy we'll be hearing from the org and fans to just be patient with all for no payoff for the patience.

Someone mentioned Ha Ha in this thread... that guy was disappointing last night but he is one you can justify saying it's way too early to say what he's going to be. When your first rounder is getting far less playing time last year than Josh Boyd, your 5th rounder, that is a terrible sign. How could anyone argue against that? Boyd looks like a player on the come... a Mike Daniels if you will. I have high hopes for Boyd. Why am I so up on Boyd and down on Datone?

Datone is getting dangerously close to Terrell Buckley status in Green Bay. His mouth hasn't been justified by his play. Datone spoke of being the best player in NFL history...not just at his position but the best ever at any position. To talk that talk and ride the sideline while a 5th rounder was actually playing doesn't inspire he'll ever be a player. I was hopeful this Packer propaganda of the "2nd year jump" would come to fruition for him. It doesn't look or sound like it's happened for him. I read something the other day that he didn't take the jump that was expected of him That is what a BUST is...a guy who isn't on the field in favor of a 5th rounder, and one who didn't improve from last season. What else is Datone if not a bust?

When will he move to bust territory for you?
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:11:12 AM(UTC)
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I struggle to slam someone as BUST without them having three full seasons to adequately state as such. Datone Jones was drafted in 2013. I'll give him two more seasons before he can have the opportunity of earning the BUST label.
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Offline earthquake  
#10 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:15:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I struggle to slam someone as BUST without them having three full seasons to adequately state as such. Datone Jones was drafted in 2013. I'll give him two more seasons before he can have the opportunity of earning the BUST label.


Ditto. One injured rookie season and one preseason game are nowhere near a large enough sample size to come to any conclusions.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#11 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:25:58 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
Ditto. One injured rookie season and one preseason game are nowhere near a large enough sample size to come to any conclusions.


So, how would you characterize Datone Jones up to this point? Can't be anything other than disappointing. That is what busts are...disappointing. You feel he's just off to a very poor start in Green Bay and will become something this year, or down the road?

This just feels all too familiar to me. Another high defensive pick who is not a player. Why is Josh Boyd so much better at this point? It's hard to reconcile that question. Boyd is good... Datone is not. Why? A first rounder should develop quicker than a 5th rounder. Boyd was a guy who as a 5th may or may not have even made the team. He made the team and got more playing time than Jones because he's better. He's still better this year. Datone is starting off of reputation as a 1st rounder...nothing else. Boyd is the better player.

It's time to call the fight. Datone is never going to be anywhere near what he was supposed to be for us. I'd settle for him being like AJ Hawk, at this point.

I agree with Michael Rodney over at PackerUpdate.net...

DATONE JONES – Speaking of not standing out, last year’s No. 1 pick continued his ho-hum summer vs. the Titans. Jones received plenty of playing time in the first half, but he just didn’t do enough – either as a base end or as an inside pass rusher. In all honesty, he looks like just a guy. The former UCLA standout still seems to be developing positional instincts and awareness to blocking schemes. He also needs to improve his pad level. And while I do like his motor and the energy he brings to the huddle, that’s not enough when you’re talking about a player picked 26th overall in the draft.
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Offline steveishere  
#12 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:44:48 AM(UTC)
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Boyd 103 defensive snaps
Jones 263 defensive snaps

Not really "far less playing time" last year. Also Boyd is IMO irrelevant, you are using him to trash Jones simply because of his draft status. What if Boyd is actually just a good player? Is Mike Daniels not as good as a 1st rounder who has the exact same production because he was a 4th rounder?

Jones problem last year was he wasn't strong enough to play in base defense but he still ended up tied for 5th in sacks for rookies. Sacks don't mean everything but they don't mean nothing. He had a disappointing year last year but it's that way for a lot of rookies. We haven't even seen him in a real game yet this year and as of now it looks like he's starting at DE. Heck Daniels didn't do much his rookie year either.

I expect to see some positive progression from 1st year to 2nd year so I'll be worried if Jones doesn't take a decent step this year but I'll wait to actually watch him in some real football games before I judge whether that's happened or not. Also it didn't look to me like he was getting thrown around and blown off the ball or anything last night. Our run D was pretty good early on and Tennessee has a good OL.
Offline uffda udfa  
#13 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 9:59:13 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Boyd 103 defensive snaps
Jones 263 defensive snaps

Not really "far less playing time" last year. Also Boyd is IMO irrelevant, you are using him to trash Jones simply because of his draft status. What if Boyd is actually just a good player? Is Mike Daniels not as good as a 1st rounder who has the exact same production because he was a 4th rounder?

Jones problem last year was he wasn't strong enough to play in base defense but he still ended up tied for 5th in sacks for rookies. Sacks don't mean everything but they don't mean nothing. He had a disappointing year last year but it's that way for a lot of rookies. We haven't even seen him in a real game yet this year and as of now it looks like he's starting at DE. Heck Daniels didn't do much his rookie year either.

I expect to see some positive progression from 1st year to 2nd year so I'll be worried if Jones doesn't take a decent step this year but I'll wait to actually watch him in some real football games before I judge whether that's happened or not. Also it didn't look to me like he was getting thrown around and blown off the ball or anything last night. Our run D was pretty good early on and Tennessee has a good OL.


First, I was wrong...Boyd was a SIXTH rounder not 5th... As for the playing time issue, Boyd was inactive for almost half the season. (7 of first 9 games) At the end, who was on the field and who wasn't? Boyd got a lot more playing time than Jones. Jones got his snap advantage by being a 1st rounder. Boyd sits out half the season and is the guy playing at the end while Jones is sidelining it. That is flat out disappointing. Our 6th rounder is a player but our 1st rounder isn't. Of course, I'm going to use Boyd in comparison to Jones and Worthy as well. Again, two big misses up high for this organization. Boyd is a good player and I'm happy for that. It helps soften the blow of missing on Worthy and Jones. However, it should be mentioned that a 6th rounder lucky to make the team being drafted in Round 6 is a much better player than our 1st rounder.

Boyd and Daniels are very promising young guys. It's just shameful we continue missing on high defensive picks. What in the world kind of D would we have it we'd actually hit on Worthy, Jones, or Perry? We've gotten next to nothing from those guys.

Please, prove me wrong, Datone. Shed that disappointing label you've earned and make plays. I don't want to watch another season of brutal defense but I'm afraid that's exactly what I'm in for.

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Offline voiceofreason  
#14 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 11:14:18 AM(UTC)
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A bust? After 1 year? By that logic Aaron Rodgers was a bust because he provided far less in his first year that Datone did in his. You sir are bananas!
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Offline uffda udfa  
#15 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 11:45:32 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: voiceofreason Go to Quoted Post
A bust? After 1 year? By that logic Aaron Rodgers was a bust because he provided far less in his first year that Datone did in his. You sir are bananas!


Was Jamal Reynolds a bust after one year? Did you need more than that? A bust is a bust. There are many players you can label a bust pretty quickly. Christian Ponder was a guy who I thought was a bust after 1 year. He's still a bust. The Aaron Rodgers thing doesn't make much sense. He wasn't drafted to play Year 1. Datone Jones was.

Is it possible Datone won't be a bust...sure. Is it possible he is a bust, right now, and you just haven't realized it yet...sure. I have concluded that he's a bust. He may not be. I hope I'm wrong. You can no more say he's not a bust than I can he is. It is my opinion he's a bust and will remain so.
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Offline voiceofreason  
#16 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 12:01:41 PM(UTC)
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So your definition is that if a player does not play well in his first year he is a bust. Thank goodness your not the GM, because Nick Collins was terrible for multiple years. Calling a player a bust is about the harshest thing you can say. I find it disrespectful when people throw it around all willy nilly.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#17 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:27:53 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: voiceofreason Go to Quoted Post
So your definition is that if a player does not play well in his first year he is a bust. Thank goodness your not the GM, because Nick Collins was terrible for multiple years. Calling a player a bust is about the harshest thing you can say. I find it disrespectful when people throw it around all willy nilly.


What makes you conclude that I throw it around willy nilly?

Nick Collins was from Bethune Cookman...not UCLA. Nick Collins was not a 1st rounder. Collins being from a small school and with a Wonderlic of 14 needed time. A 1st rounder from UCLA should be much more pro ready. Same as Jamal Reynolds from Florida State.

These guys from big time programs are in totally different boats than guys like Collins who are usually going to take time being from nowhere programs. There are always exceptions to every rule, but it makes great sense it took Collins time to get it. He also had incredible measurables that were worth waiting on. Is Datone Jones some unique athlete for that position? I don't think so.

Did I say I would cut the guy already? No. I do believe he will be just another high defensive pick who failed to live up to his lofty draft status. He wasn't good enough last year to be on the field over a 6th rounder. He's not standing out this year either. Oftentimes, if someone is going to be a player for us we hear about it early on. I will admit we heard that about Jones early on until his ankle got hurt. However, NONE of us us ever saw this stuff being written about because it wasn't happening in games it was happening in practices. I remember buzz on Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, etc...some guys are just players straight out of the gate. Datone is a Terrell Buckley who is always talking about how great he's going to be with absolutely no basis in reality. Guys like him usually don't ever measure up to their mouths. I don't think he will.

We shall see.
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Offline beast  
#18 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:29:10 PM(UTC)
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We're barely (not really) into his second year... after their first preseason game in their second year I'm pretty sure most Packers fans were still doubting Rodgers, Collins, Nelson, Tramon Williams, Daniels, Raji, Kampman... etc... how about we at least give him a couple of real games into his 2nd season before judging more?

Jones could be a bust... but it seems you're jumping off the boat pretty quickly... heck Peppers didn't stand out that much ether, among others...
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Offline earthquake  
#19 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:32:24 PM(UTC)
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Jordy Nelson was taken just outside of the 1st round(36th overall). It took him until year 4 to really show up as a dominate player. There are countless other examples of similar stories within the packers and around the league. The fact of the matter is, is that it's too early, after 1 season and 1 preseason game, to call Jones a bust.

Justin Harrell was a bust, this is an easy statement to make because hindsight is 20-20. Jones has already shown more in 1 year than Harrell showed his entire career.

We get it, you think maybe he might be a bust, someday. Cool, you're entitled to that opinion, but what purpose does repeating that every other post serve? Nobody misunderstands what you're saying.

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Offline Laser Gunns  
#20 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:40:09 PM(UTC)
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I think that Jones has unfortunately, come in at a time when most packer fans have little/no patience for injuries.

AJ Hawk is looking pretty damn good to me just because he shows up.


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Offline uffda udfa  
#21 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:50:10 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
Jordy Nelson was taken just outside of the 1st round(36th overall). It took him until year 4 to really show up as a dominate player. There are countless other examples of similar stories within the packers and around the league. The fact of the matter is, is that it's too early, after 1 season and 1 preseason game, to call Jones a bust.

Justin Harrell was a bust, this is an easy statement to make because hindsight is 20-20. Jones has already shown more in 1 year than Harrell showed his entire career.

We get it, you think maybe he might be a bust, someday. Cool, you're entitled to that opinion, but what purpose does repeating that every other post serve? Nobody misunderstands what you're saying.


I re-state because many think it's insane for me to say it and have stated that in rebuttal.

Jones may have shown more than Harrell but Boyd showed more than Jones and Josh wasn't a world beater last year. It is unnerving to see a 1st rounder get outplayed by a 6th. If Demetri Goodson has a better first year than Ha Ha, that doesn't bode well for Ha Ha.
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Offline earthquake  
#22 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 2:06:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
I re-state because many think it's insane for me to say it and have stated that in rebuttal.

Jones may have shown more than Harrell but Boyd showed more than Jones and Josh wasn't a world beater last year. It is unnerving to see a 1st rounder get outplayed by a 6th. If Demetri Goodson has a better first year than Ha Ha, that doesn't bode well for Ha Ha.


Brady is a better QB than almost every other QB ever and he was taken in the 6th round.

There are many possible scenarios that will play out, Boyd may be better than Jones in the long term, it won't be the first time a late draft pick or UDA is better than a 1st round pick, nor will it be the last. Jones may be better than Boyd in the long term, and both players may be quite good as well. All of these seem about equally plausible to me at this point.

Both could suffer career ending injuries tomorrow, point is, its way too early to tell how either player with fair in the long term.

Again its perfectly fine to speculate or give your opinion, but to go on and on and on like you do about everything is simply nauseating.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#23 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 2:21:18 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
Brady is a better QB than almost every other QB ever and he was taken in the 6th round.

There are many possible scenarios that will play out, Boyd may be better than Jones in the long term, it won't be the first time a late draft pick or UDA is better than a 1st round pick, nor will it be the last. Jones may be better than Boyd in the long term, and both players may be quite good as well. All of these seem about equally plausible to me at this point.

Both could suffer career ending injuries tomorrow, point is, its way too early to tell how either player with fair in the long term.

Again its perfectly fine to speculate or give your opinion, but to go on and on and on like you do about everything is simply nauseating.


Yes, I'm aware of Brady's situation. He wasn't taken 6th when there was a corresponding 1st rounder taken the same year. Had he been it would've been very disappointing their 1st wasn't as good as he was. Yes, Bledsoe was a former 1st...but not the same deal. I said above there is always exceptions to every rule. However, the overwhelming amount of times a 1st will outplay a 6th, and EVERY time you expect a 1st to be better than a 6th...if not, you would've taken the 6th in the 1st.

It may be nauseating to you but, again, I'm ONE poster giving an opinion. ONE. I have to read several that go against what I think and I say nothing about it save for repeating and repositioning and expanding my viewpoint.

Why can't you just say...Hey, you're right, it is disappointing how Datone Jones has impacted the Green Bay Packers up to this point? However, I believe it may take time for him as it often does with DL.

No, you don't do that... the focus is not on your own opinion it is on how wrong mine is. I find that curious. State what you think...I'm really not interested in knowing that you think I'm wrong and nauseating but feel free to keep wasting keystrokes telling me.


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Offline voiceofreason  
#24 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:07:13 PM(UTC)
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You cant label a player a bust and then say you don't want them cut. As I stated before a BUST is maybe the worst thing you can call a player. It means they have no further value. If you truly feel Datone is a bust, and you don't want him cut, you are promoting a wasted roster spot.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:12:50 PM(UTC)
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My goodness, this is still going?? Look, the player hasn't even been in the league for three years.

Go here http://packershome.com/Draft
Set it to 2011
And then pick on someone who has had three years to prove/disprove themsevles!!!
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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