texaspackerbacker
9 years ago
Thanks to NFL Network, I got to see 'em play this week.

It seemed like we played our backup WRs in reverse order - the least likely coming in early, then Adams and Janis coming in late. That may have been a factor in Janis and Adams looking so good. They were impressive, though. Dorsey did all right, and White, who I had a low opinion of going in, wasn't too bad.

I attribute the lack of pass rush early to the Packers not showing anything too fancy - I hope so anyway. When the first teams were in there, it still seemed like the Safety play was not good enough, not to mention both Tramon and Shields messing up at Corner. For the most part, we got away with it, though. I had the St. Louis broadcasters on NFL Network, and several times, they cited their players not having it as easy this week as their first game - Gilbert for one, and obviously their third QB, Davis. So our D must have been doing something right.

One player I have criticized a lot has been Brad Jones. I thought he looked decent today, though. Or maybe it was just low expectations. None of the other ILBs looked all that great. I hope they use Elliot and maybe Hubbard at OLB earlier in the game next time to see if they were that good or just going against total crap.

Everybody who it set up for comparison to Raji seems to outplay him. I wonder what the chances - slim and none? - of Pennell actually taking Raji's spot. There, too, was Pennell that much better? Or just playing against somebody worse? It seemed like he played one series against the Rams first O-Line.

DuJuan Harris impressed me; Hill did a little bit against lesser defenders; And Perkins did not look like anything special. I'm curious to see if Neal looks like he's worth keeping.

I know they mostly wanted to give all 3 QBs a workout in the hurry up. I wonder, though, if we will see a lot more of it in games. I'd like to see that. It would seem to me that having a D that ain't a liability is a key to basically lengthening the game by going hurry up. I have always talked against a run first or run-heavy offense because it decreased the chances for Aaron Rodgers. However, going hurry up allows for a lot of runs and still throwing a lot - assuming you can move it and keep the ball.
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DarkaneRules
9 years ago
For folks who saw the game, how did Harris look on kickoff returns? Did we get any closer to finding our punt returner?
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sschind
9 years ago
Just a quick question. How many players do you think actually play themselves onto the team during the preseason games? I've always been of the mindset that player make the team or not during training camp and practice and that relatively few show enough during a preseason game to make the team simply because of that. I think if 3 players show enough in a game to swing the decision it would be about average. 5 would be on the high side.

For example, everyone likes what Janis did tonight and says he will make the team but he was being talked about all week in practice and I think most people kind of had that feeling anyway.

Certainly a good performance can help to cement your chances and I think a poor performance would hurt your chances more than a good performance would help.

Another example, its late in the 4th quarter. The other team has their 3rd string o-linemen in the game (most of whom will likely be cut) and you have a defensive end that has a tackle for a loss, sack, and a hurry, does he automatically jump ahead of a bunch of guys if he hadn't been showing much in practice? I don't think so.

This is one reason why I don't bother with preseason games. They are either too depressing if you take them too seriously and your bottom 30 guys don't play well or they are undeservedly uplifting if your bottom 30 guys do well against the other teams bottom 30 guys.

Special teams is the one area where it may be easier to do this. If a fringe, or likely odd man out WR (I'll just use Harper as an example because his is the first name I thought of) can show he can be a force returning kicks he may be able to unseat the #5 guy or he may be able to convince the coaches to keep that extra WR.

We as fans pretty much only see the PS games so we may think "he made the team with his performance tonight" but I don't think it happens as much as we think it does.
uffda udfa
9 years ago

This is almost hard to believe considering you've mentioned it in every other post.

I personally think judging Ha-Ha harshly at this point is ridiculous. There's just not nearly enough to go by. Same with Davante Adams. These rookies have even less time than they used to in terms of acclimating to the pro game. Whether they come from Alabama or Fresno State, this is the NFL -- the learning curve is a bit more steep.

I remember Vic So'oto looking like a world beater a few years ago in preseason. He's out of the league now.

That's not to say we shouldn't be excited when we see a flash or glimpse of what's to come. We should, because it's fun and shit. But the extent to which one preseason game tells us who was a great pick or who was a dud is severely limited.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



Why is it ridiculous? I'm not saying Ha Ha won't eventually be good...it is way early, but relatively speaking when looking at all our newbies, it is pretty sad I'm most excited about a 7th and a couple of UDFA over the guys we drafted up high.

I loved So'oto....what a game he had vs. the Chiefs to win him a spot. Intangibles are what the game is a lot about. So'oto may have pushed himself to make the team and then got complacent....you never really know. Pennel is a guy I worry about... will he be similar? Give his all to make it and then once he does dial it down?

Pre-season is important... there are many guys who have been pre-season stars who turn into nothing but not always. Matt Hasselbeck comes to mind. Pre-season player who parlayed his strong showing into a nice career.

I'm lamenting that none of our high picks seem to ever show anything to get excited about. Seeing Sherrod just get it handed to was depressing. Another 1st rounder who just sucks. He was being touted as the swing guy with Barclay out. Again, it is sad that a guy like Barclay a street guy offers more to be excited about than a 1st rounder like Sherrod. It happens way too often in Green Bay.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


evad04
9 years ago

Why is it ridiculous? I'm not saying Ha Ha won't eventually be good...it is way early, but relatively speaking when looking at all our newbies, it is pretty sad I'm most excited about a 7th and a couple of UDFA over the guys we drafted up high.

I loved So'oto....what a game he had vs. the Chiefs to win him a spot. Intangibles are what the game is a lot about. So'oto may have pushed himself to make the team and then got complacent....you never really know. Pennel is a guy I worry about... will he be similar? Give his all to make it and then once he does dial it down?

Pre-season is important... there are many guys who have been pre-season stars who turn into nothing but not always. Matt Hasselbeck comes to mind. Pre-season player who parlayed his strong showing into a nice career.

I'm lamenting that none of our high picks seem to ever show anything to get excited about. Seeing Sherrod just get it handed to was depressing. Another 1st rounder who just sucks. He was being touted as the swing guy with Barclay out. Again, it is sad that a guy like Barclay a street guy offers more to be excited about than a 1st rounder like Sherrod. It happens way too often in Green Bay.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I still don't understand why it matters all the much *where* you get a guy. If a 5th rounder comes and clearly has it, if anything, it helps make up for underwhelming 1st round guys.

We just hold a very different philosophy with regard to draft status.

I want good players. I don't care where they come from. Some of the best guys on the team are 4th round or later. Sammy Shields representing the undrafted crowd.

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uffda udfa
9 years ago

I still don't understand why it matters all the much *where* you get a guy. If a 5th rounder comes and clearly has it, if anything, it helps make up for underwhelming 1st round guys.

We just hold a very different philosophy with regard to draft status.

I want good players. I don't care where they come from. Some of the best guys on the team are 4th round or later. Sammy Shields representing the undrafted crowd.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



You don't understand that? Generally speaking, most of the blue chip NFL'ers are found up high in the draft. We fail at a ridiculously high rate when it comes to high picks. Yes, it is outstanding we hit on guys nobody ever heard of off the street ala Shields. What would this team be if it hit on guys up high like a Rodgers and Matthews? We get far too many Harrell's and Sherrod's up high.

Do I care that Sam Shields wasn't drafted...nope. Not a bit. It does bother me on the other side of things to see the Green Bay Packers missing on high picks so much. I don't understand why that doesn't bother you? We miss so many opportunities to be a better football team and you can't just brush it off and say...well, we got some good UDFA's so it doesn't matter?? It does matter.

Let Ted Thompson run the post draft process and someone else run the real draft.




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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


evad04
9 years ago

You don't understand that? Generally speaking, most of the blue chip NFL'ers are found up high in the draft. We fail at a ridiculously high rate when it comes to high picks. Yes, it is outstanding we hit on guys nobody ever heard of off the street ala Shields. What would this team be if it hit on guys up high like a Rodgers and Matthews? We get far too many Harrell's and Sherrod's up high.

Do I care that Sam Shields wasn't drafted...nope. Not a bit. It does bother me on the other side of things to see the Green Bay Packers missing on high picks so much. I don't understand why that doesn't bother you? We miss so many opportunities to be a better football team and you can't just brush it off and say...well, we got some good UDFA's so it doesn't matter?? It does matter.

Let Ted Thompson run the post draft process and someone else run the real draft.



Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 


Oh, I thought the guys taken in the first round had the coolest names or something. Yeah -- I'm aware of pedigree immediately out of college. But it doesn't tend to matter once they start playing the games. And to that end I've been mostly quite satisfied with the roster Ted Thompson has put together.

It hasn't been perfect. There have been some definite misses in the 1st round -- though I think it would be fair to give Sherrod more actual game time (of which he's been severely limited). I'd also give Datone more than one year before I label him a bust.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that if we hit on solid players in rounds 4, 5 or 6 then we've made up tons of extra value compared to what you'd "expect" to get out of a purportedly lower-caliber player taken in those rounds. This metric seems to be lost in how you personally view the team. We have missed on some early-round guys; and we've hit, extraordinarily in some other cases, on guys taken later.

Kinda evens out.

Go back and look at every first-round pick over the years -- for all 32 teams. Those rounds are loaded with as many forgettable turds as the other rounds, most years.

So I guess I'll say this: If I felt like the lack of star quality from Round 1 guys was a serious impediment to the franchise, I'd be testier. It's all mitigated by the fact that we have a talented and deep team, for the most part. And hopefully those former 1st rounders turn a corner this year. And if they don't, and the Josh Boyd's and JC Tretter's of the world make a name, all the better for the Pack for finding quality beyond the heralded first round.

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"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Oh, I thought the guys taken in the first round had the coolest names or something. Yeah -- I'm aware of pedigree immediately out of college. But it doesn't tend to matter once they start playing the games. And to that end I've been mostly quite satisfied with the roster Ted Thompson has put together.

It hasn't been perfect. There have been some definite misses in the 1st round -- though I think it would be fair to give Sherrod more actual game time (of which he's been severely limited). I'd also give Datone more than one year before I label him a bust.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that if we hit on solid players in rounds 4, 5 or 6 then we've made up tons of extra value compared to what you'd "expect" to get out of a purportedly lower-caliber player taken in those rounds. This metric seems to be lost in how you personally view the team. We have missed on some early-round guys; and we've hit, extraordinarily in some other cases, on guys taken later.

Kinda evens out.

Go back and look at every first-round pick over the years -- for all 32 teams. Those rounds are loaded with as many forgettable turds as the other rounds, most years.

So I guess I'll say this: If I felt like the lack of star quality from Round 1 guys was a serious impediment to the franchise, I'd be testier. It's all mitigated by the fact that we have a talented and deep team, for the most part. And hopefully those former 1st rounders turn a corner this year. And if they don't, and the Josh Boyd's and JC Tretter's of the world make a name, all the better for the Pack for finding quality beyond the heralded first round.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



Kinda evens out? You knew that wasn't true when you typed it. Just because we play a bunch of late rounders and UDFA's doesn't mean they're the equivalent of what you would've gotten out of guys in Rounds 1-3.

We are fortunate we are able to find decent players late and off the street or we'd really be hurting on D. Still, our saving grace is our QB. I don't know why, it was only a pre season game, but this game vs. St. Louis had the feel of Atlanta in the playoffs to me. It just felt like Rodgers was going to do whatever he wanted. We're pretty good based on that alone.

Hit on your 1st rounders... and your defensive picks. Ted Thompson hasn't just not been good...he's been unacceptably bad. So bad he has 2 UDFA's starting at CB. The first rounders we do have have been nothing but average outside of Clay.

You should be testier because the failure of your 1st rounders is an impediment a big one.

Just imagine if we were the Lions... Stafford, Bush, Suh, Megatron, Fairley, Ansah, Reiff, How bad would Detroit be without those former 1st rounders?

We have Rodgers and Matthews from Round 1... just imagine how awful we'd be without them... you saw it last year. Didn't appear to me the UDFA's and late rounders we hit on "kinda evened" things out for us.

It's delusion to say 1st rounders aren't critical to success.

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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DarkaneRules
9 years ago
AH! Yet another topic turns into this endless debate. Stop the madness people! Create a topic for it and try to leave it there would ya?
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
stevegb
9 years ago
Why does it matter where a player is drafted? If Ted Thompson drafts a great player in the draft isn't that a win? I don't see what 1st and 7th round draft status has to do with anything except pay. Thats why I think Ted Thompson is one of the best GM's because he's drafted a roster that is good enough to contend year in and year out.
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dfosterf (8-Apr) : I say he is better than so many of these draft picks
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beast (5-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft has been an offensive player since 2017, 2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 OC
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Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : Texans to let Diggs be free agent in '25
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Martha Careful (4-Apr) : Reversion to the mean would indicate we will keep it
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Mucky Tundra (4-Apr) : Gotta imagine that Green Bay vs Houston will be a primetime game this upcoming season
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