Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago
IMO if you don't think you need to improve much, you won't.

Fortunately for the Packers, as of the end of the 2015 season all of the three stooges (i.e. other NFCN teams) need to improve a lot to offer a serious threat to the Packers. If I were the sort that still bet on sports outcome, I'd put a big chunk of the Packers winning the division yet again this year.

Unfortunately, the Packers should not be measuring themselves against teams who have to improve a lot. They should be measuring themselves against the teams who they might face that *don't* have to improve a lot. Not teams whose best hope for a playoff spot is a wild card, but NFC teams who are serious competition for the NFC championship and AFC teams who are potential Super Bowl opponents.

I think Minnesota and Chicago had better drafts than GB. But in the end, that's not a big deal to me, because I think Minnesota and Chicago are at least 2 years away from serious divisional competition if the Packers play up to their ability.

But has GB improved relative to those other championship contenders?




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
beast
8 years ago


If the Vikings DL can hold together, they're going to be a pain in the butt to play with all good coverage guys... add to the fact it looks like they're going to have a passing game to go with Peterson this year and I think it's fair to say they're going to get a shot at the division this coming year.

I think it'll be the Packers and Vikings battling for the division, though I really dislike that the Bears were able to get Goldman in the 2nd, I think he's going to be very good.
UserPostedImage
DoddPower
8 years ago

IMO if you don't think you need to improve much, you won't.

Fortunately for the Packers, as of the end of the 2015 season all of the three stooges (i.e. other NFCN teams) need to improve a lot to offer a serious threat to the Packers. If I were the sort that still bet on sports outcome, I'd put a big chunk of the Packers winning the division yet again this year.

Unfortunately, the Packers should not be measuring themselves against teams who have to improve a lot. They should be measuring themselves against the teams who they might face that *don't* have to improve a lot. Not teams whose best hope for a playoff spot is a wild card, but NFC teams who are serious competition for the NFC championship and AFC teams who are potential Super Bowl opponents.

I think Minnesota and Chicago had better drafts than GB. But in the end, that's not a big deal to me, because I think Minnesota and Chicago are at least 2 years away from serious divisional competition if the Packers play up to their ability.

But has GB improved relative to those other championship contenders?



Originally Posted by: Wade 



Eh, fans don't have to hold the same standard as the actual organization. I have no doubt the Packers organization knows they need to improve. C'mon. A team can NEVER reach a point where they are good enough. It's an unobtainable goal. No coach or general manager would make it with that attitude. A team might be "good enough" to win a game on a given week, but it's immediately time to turn the attention to the next week, season, player, contract, etc.

I think you really have to come to terms with the draft and develop philosophy (if you already have, it sometimes just doesn't seem like it). This is what it is, and the Packers organization adheres to it tightly. It's very unlikely to change because it's the fundamental philosophy of this administration. They will live and die by that sword, if you will. It will either win them another championship or two, or they will sputter and all retire/get fired and the organization with start over. If that happens, the next administration that is hired will likely have a mandate to take a slightly different path. If one vehemently disagrees with this current philosophy, they should probably hope that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy get fired or retire soon. Because things aren't likely to change otherwise.

It's fine to disagree with the philosophy, but it's also important to accept it for what it is. The Packers are strong in their conviction, be it right or wrong. They are very likely never going to sign a lot of free agents, make many (or any) substantial trades, or become highly aggressive with the draft or future draft picks. They are going to draft young players and rely on those players to improve as they mature in the system. That's the main source of immediate improvement that the Packers rely on. It's just the way it is. I rather like it, but I think a few more signings like Julius Peppers would be useful. Having more guys like him come around every couple of seasons is generally a good thing. But overall, I'm fine with the approach. Much more often than not, it makes a lot of sense. All the Packers need to do is draft better or get lucky and land two-to-three more good-to-very good players and this team has no excuse to not win another championship. I think that's a reasonable goal, but they do need to find those few additional players.

Ultimately, it just comes down to needing to draft a little better. I think Ted Thompson is a good drafter, and he runs a great organization from a business perspective. But if he just drafted a little better, the Packers could be a different team. I don't think it's as much an issue with the philosophy. It's always a matter of execution.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago
Sigh....I *do* believe in the draft-and-develop idea.

I just don't like:
1. Putting as many eggs in that basket as Ted Thompson does; and
2. The failure (more on my fellow fans part than on TT's) to recognize that the amount of weight put on draft-and-develop can change how important a particular draft can sometimes be to short run improvement.

As, IMO, it does this year.

I don't give a damn right now whether this year's drafts turn out to be all pro in 2016 or 2017 or 2099. I care about whether this *TEAM* this *YEAR* improves enough over last year. For example, I want a team that scares Seattle or at least gives them a lot more to worry about; I don't want a team that depends on finessing Seattle to beat them.

Ted has been GM for a decade now. There is no way he should be acting as if last year's roster is going to improve enough to get that improvement. And I'd like to believe that he doesn't. I do, however, think that some of his fans here do, and that they think that is okay.

And that, sir, bugs the crap out of me.

I agree with everyone that Ted knows light years more than I do. And I hope like hell he got this draft right and proved me wrong as he has done multiple times before.

But until I see a Bahktiari give what I think a LT should give to the team, until I see a Barrington or a Bradford or a Hayward or a Hyde or a Quarless or a (Richard) Rodgers give what I think the team ought to be getting at their respective positions, I'm going to bitch when I don't see Ted bringing in more competition for those positions on the current depth chart.

Maybe they have what it takes. Hope so. Maybe some of the draftees /UDFAs will provide real competition. Hope so on that as well.

Because, right now, that's all the team's got to choose from to get that competition. Last years roster, rookies, and UDFAs.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DoddPower
8 years ago

Sigh....I *do* believe in the draft-and-develop idea.

I just don't like:
1. Putting as many eggs in that basket as Ted Thompson does; and
2. The failure (more on my fellow fans part than on TT's) to recognize that the amount of weight put on draft-and-develop can change how important a particular draft can sometimes be to short run improvement.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I really can't comprehend why some people get so annoyed by how other sports fans perceive and enjoy sports. It makes no sense. It's entertainment. Most of us have no real connection to it beyond simply following the sport. Most of us don't have close family members on the team, although some know a few players. Fans aren't going to change how they enjoy the game so I'm not sure why so many talk them out of what they enjoy or substantially change their perspectives. All that matters is that they derive joy from the sport. Nothing else matters, whether you, me, or anyone else agrees with it or not.

I don't give a damn right now whether this year's drafts turn out to be all pro in 2016 or 2017 or 2099. I care about whether this *TEAM* this *YEAR* improves enough over last year. For example, I want a team that scares Seattle or at least gives them a lot more to worry about; I don't want a team that depends on finessing Seattle to beat them.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Last years team was more than capable of beating Seattle. It just didn't work out, but that was an exceptional situation. If all the Packers did was maintain their current talent level, or possibly even got slightly worse, they are STILL more than capable of beating Seattle, and any other team in the league. Aaron Rodgers being healthy it's more than enough improvement.

But that still wasn't the point of my post. Ted's particular philosophy of draft and develop relies improvement from within as the main source of team improvement. As in this "*TEAM* this *YEAR*." It's just the way this organization currently is, for better or for worse. It's fine to hope and wish things were different. But it's also important to realize that it's highly unlikely and Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy will sink or swim with this philosophy of depending on improvement within.

Ted has been GM for a decade now. There is no way he should be acting as if last year's roster is going to improve enough to get that improvement. And I'd like to believe that he doesn't. I do, however, think that some of his fans here do, and that they think that is okay.

And that, sir, bugs the crap out of me.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



See my quote above. I really cannot understand why other fans perspectives bother you so much. I understand we all have quirks that bug us, but this just doesn't seem like anything positive. At all. Obviously all fans view things differently, just as you do. Express your opinions and debate them when it comes up, but don't let it bug crap out of you. What's the point? That seems as futile as trying to substantially change the food someone likes to eat or the music they enjoy. Sure, some new things may be discovered, but in general, people are going to like what they like regardless of others opinions. It's certainly not worth stressing about.

I agree with everyone that Ted knows light years more than I do. And I hope like hell he got this draft right and proved me wrong as he has done multiple times before.

But until I see a Bahktiari give what I think a LT should give to the team, until I see a Barrington or a Bradford or a Hayward or a Hyde or a Quarless or a (Richard) Rodgers give what I think the team ought to be getting at their respective positions, I'm going to bitch when I don't see Ted bringing in more competition for those positions on the current depth chart.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Again, if bitching makes you feel better, go for it. But Ted and company are going to keep doing what they have been doing for years now. It is not likely to change until they retire or get fired. I accept it for what it is and try my best not to have an aneurysm about it (which isn't that difficult).
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (2h) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
Zero2Cool (3h) : They do not do it for "content sake".
dfosterf (13h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (20h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (21h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (22h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.