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Nonstopdrivel  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 11:52:23 AM(UTC)
Evan ' said: Go to Quoted Post
On Sunday with both players out, MVS and a fellow rookie, sixth-rounder Equanimeous St. Brown, displayed the skill sets that excited Packers fans when their names were called on that Sunday in late April. The two combined for ten receptions, 165 yards, and a touchdown and demonstrated that they have plenty of potential to play a foil to Davante Adams on the opposite side.

Now the key will be maintaining that success and chemistry with Aaron Rodgers, which is no easy task for a pair of rookies.

In years past, that would have made total sense to me. I've always been a huge Aaron Rodgers apologist. But let's get real here. Rodgers has been a starter in this league for well over a decade now. After so many years at the controls, his insistence in receivers earning his trust before incorporating them in his progressions, even at the expense of getting talented players on until field, is starting to strike me as more of a personal problem. Why is a quarterback who's built his entire career around improvisation so slow to adapt to new personnel? And about what other NFL passer does the media spill so much ink commenting on his trust -- or lack thereof -- in his receivers? You'd think he would have learned how to roll with the punches by now. Whatever happened to the Aaron Rodgers who used to complete passes to eight, nine, even ten different receivers a game?

Updated by user Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:22:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:07:44 PM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel said: Go to Quoted Post
Whatever happened to the Aaron Rodgers who used to complete passes to eight, nine, even ten different receivers a game?


I think that was our illusion and was never something that happened.


Aaron Rodgers is not a top five QB and he probably never really was either. He's had games or stretches of games where he was elite. Packers don't look much different now than they did in 2017 with Brett Hundley.
TheKanataThrilla  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:16:17 PM(UTC)
I have to admit to being annoyed by this "trust" thing. It really comes off as diva behaviour. One would wonder whether even if we spent a top round pick on a WR (like Ridley) whether the guy would be "paying his dues" instead of putting up great stats like he is doing with Atlanta.
Nonstopdrivel  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:02:32 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers is not a top five QB and he probably never really was either.

I honestly can't tell if you're yanking my chain here.

There have certainly been stretches -- and at least one entire season -- in which Aaron Rodgers was far and away the best quarterback in the league. But it's also true that he's never managed to put together the kind of sustained on-the-field success that a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady (or even, as much as it pains me to say it, a Brett Favre) have. Is it entirely his fault? Of course not. He's been fucked over by his offensive line and defense more times than anyone can count, and boneheaded decisions by his head coach have far too often killed this team's chances when the game was on the line.

Justly or unjustly, though, Aaron Rodgers has earned a reputation for being a frontrunning quarterback, and it's a stigma I don't think he's managed to fully overcome, despite a recent spate of come-from-behind and overtime victories. I have no doubt he's always been rather headstrong and a little defiant, perhaps even a little overconfident, and that is part of what made him so great when he was in his prime. But I'm starting to think that some of those very traits could be coming back to haunt the team now that he is no longer quite the physical specimen he used to be.

Maybe it's time for Brian Gutekunst to bring in someone who can help Rodgers reinvent himself the way we've seen other great quarterbacks do in years past. I don't think Mike McCarthy is the man to do it. Problem is, there just aren't enough Sean Paytons to go around. The question is who else might be up to the task?
Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:16:48 PM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel said: Go to Quoted Post
I honestly can't tell if you're yanking my chain here.


Tired of so many saying the GM hasn't got Aaron Rodgers enough weapons, hasn't done enough to help him, hasn't given him help. Bullshit. Absolutely bullshit. If Aaron doesn't want to help himself, fuck him. How many times do we see a guy wide the hell open and he misses him, doesn't see him or throws it elsewhere. How he reacted to a rookie who didn't toe tap was absolutely garbage. He's a god damn rookie. You get up close to him, tell him no worries kid, we'll get it next time. You don't act like an arrogant asshole. That's not leadership. That's making the players play tight and not loose.

I haven't been this pissed off at a QB in a long time.
Nonstopdrivel  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:21:50 PM(UTC)
I can't say I entirely disagree in any one particular.
yooperfan  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 3:44:35 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Tired of so many saying the GM hasn't got Aaron Rodgers enough weapons, hasn't done enough to help him, hasn't given him help. Bullshit. Absolutely bullshit. If Aaron doesn't want to help himself, fuck him. How many times do we see a guy wide the hell open and he misses him, doesn't see him or throws it elsewhere. How he reacted to a rookie who didn't toe tap was absolutely garbage. He's a god damn rookie. You get up close to him, tell him no worries kid, we'll get it next time. You don't act like an arrogant asshole. That's not leadership. That's making the players play tight and not loose.

I haven't been this pissed off at a QB in a long time.

And the Packers handed him the keys to Fort Knox two years prior to the expiration of his contract.🌠🌠

go.pack.go.  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 5:31:50 PM(UTC)
So much over reaction. He’s been playing on one leg all season. There have been some very frustrating moments & games this year as well. Me, as a fan in my living room, was so frustrated this past Sunday with the performance (or lack thereof) from the receivers & kicking game, that I was screaming at the TV and throwing my hat every time something bad happened. I can only imagine what his frustration level was.

I guess nobody saw what he did with Crosby on the sideline?
nerdmann  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 8:18:02 PM(UTC)
go.pack.go. said: Go to Quoted Post
So much over reaction. He’s been playing on one leg all season. There have been some very frustrating moments & games this year as well. Me, as a fan in my living room, was so frustrated this past Sunday with the performance (or lack thereof) from the receivers & kicking game, that I was screaming at the TV and throwing my hat every time something bad happened. I can only imagine what his frustration level was.

I guess nobody saw what he did with Crosby on the sideline?


He makes those kicks, they pull this game out, and everyone's just fine with all the shit suckage. I still think they'll at least contend for post season.
Zero2Cool  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 4:39:37 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
He makes those kicks, they pull this game out, and everyone's just fine with all the shit suckage. I still think they'll at least contend for post season.


I am not that confident the Packers win if they make those kicks. I'm more confident that the Lions were playing bend don't break and that's why we were even able to get into FG range. The Packers were down 24 at half time and it felt double that the entire game.
Porforis  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 8:21:11 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel said: Go to Quoted Post
Whatever happened to the Aaron Rodgers who used to complete passes to eight, nine, even ten different receivers a game?


The issue's not as severe as you seem to be making it out as. It's easy to lose sight of what normal is. Let's look at last year in games Rodgers played the entire game, and compare this to opposing teams.

Week one: Passes completed to 6 players, with number of targets being 12, 8, 7, 6, 4, 4. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.
Week two: Passes completed to 9 players, with number of targets being 11, 10, 9, 7, 5, 4, 1, 1, 1. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players
Week three: Passes completed to 6 players, with number of targets being 12, 9, 8, 6, 4, 3. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players
Week four: Passes completed to 7 players, with number of targets being 7, 7, 5, 4, 2, 1, 1. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week five: Passes completed to 7 players, with number of targets being 7, 7, 5, 4, 2, 1, 1. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week six: Passes completed to 7 players, with number of targets being 11, 5, 4, 3, 1, 1, 1. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week fifteen: Passes completed to 7 players, with number of targets being 14, 8, 7, 6, 4, 2, 2. Opposing team completed passes to 5 players.

So last year, Rodgers averaged passes completed to 7 receivers per game, with opposing teams averaging passes completed to 6.4 receivers per game.

2016:
Week 1: Passes completed to 8 players. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week 2: Passes completed to 6 players. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week 3: Passes completed to 8 players. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week 5: Passes completed to 6 players. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.
Week 6: Passes completed to 9 players. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.
Week 7: Passes completed to 7 players. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.
Week 8: Passes completed to 6 players. Opposing team completed passes to 8 players.
Week 9: Passes completed to 8 players. Opposing team completed passes to 9 players.
Week 10: Passes completed to 7 players. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.
Week 11: Passes completed to 7 players. Opposing team completed passes to 7 players.
Week 12: Passes completed to 8 players. Opposing team completed passes to 8 players.
Week 13: Passes completed to 6 players. Opposing team completed passes to 9 players.
Week 14: Passes completed to 6 players. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.
Week 15: Passes completed to 8 players. Opposing team completed passes to 8 players.
Week 16: Passes completed to 8 players. Opposing team completed passes to 6 players.

So in 2016, Rodgers averaged passed completed to 7.2 receivers per game, with opposing teams averaging passes completed to 7.1 receivers per game

Tried finding some statistics for the league but couldn't find anything using any of the search terms I could think up of. Point being - the stats just don't back up the assertion that Rodgers locks in on one or two guys and ignores everyone else. Or at least, not any more than any other player does. In fact, he consistently spreads the ball around MORE than our opponents do, and there's not a ton of variation between number of targets for his #1 target, and number of targets for his #3 or even #4 most targeted receiver in any given game.
sschind  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 8:27:35 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I am not that confident the Packers win if they make those kicks. I'm more confident that the Lions were playing bend don't break and that's why we were even able to get into FG range. The Packers were down 24 at half time and it felt double that the entire game.



That's a very good point. Even on offense if the Packers make the first two kicks do the Lions try something else on offense. What about the third and fourth. They didn't score much in the second half. How much was the Packers D stiffening up and how much was the Lions O going conservative. Make a couple of those FGs and maybe Detroit plays differently.

What very well may have won them the game is turning at least a few of those FG attempts into TDs. That's what is bothering me the most about this offense so far. The funny thing is that Crosby has made 16 attempts so far but none have been from closer than 30 yards. The Packers are moving the ball to the tune of 400 yards per game but it just isn't translating into TDs Same with the vikings game. Put 1 or 2 of those drives into the endzone and its a win instead of a tie. They need to put the ball into the endzone and stop relying on Mason Crosby to make those FGs.
dyeah_gb  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:42:53 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
That's a very good point. Even on offense if the Packers make the first two kicks do the Lions try something else on offense. What about the third and fourth. They didn't score much in the second half. How much was the Packers D stiffening up and how much was the Lions O going conservative. Make a couple of those FGs and maybe Detroit plays differently.

What very well may have won them the game is turning at least a few of those FG attempts into TDs. That's what is bothering me the most about this offense so far. The funny thing is that Crosby has made 16 attempts so far but none have been from closer than 30 yards. The Packers are moving the ball to the tune of 400 yards per game but it just isn't translating into TDs Same with the vikings game. Put 1 or 2 of those drives into the endzone and its a win instead of a tie. They need to put the ball into the endzone and stop relying on Mason Crosby to make those FGs.


Just to play devil's advocate, if the Lions were forced to be more aggressive on offense, Stafford could have thrown 2 INTs. I don't have a high opinion of him. Especially since the loss of a Megatron, Stafford is probably best playing with a lead handed to him by the refs and running a basic offense.
Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:45:32 AM(UTC)
dyeah_gb said: Go to Quoted Post
Just to play devil's advocate, if the Lions were forced to be more aggressive on offense, Stafford could have thrown 2 INTs. I don't have a high opinion of him. Especially since the loss of a Megatron, Stafford is probably best playing with a lead handed to him by the refs and running a basic offense.


Just to play Angel's Advocate, Matthew Stafford is pretty good QB and those WR abuse the Packers all the time. Jones, Tate and now Golloday. It would have been worse had me made those FG's.
dyeah_gb  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 6:17:20 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Just to play Angel's Advocate, Matthew Stafford is pretty good QB and those WR abuse the Packers all the time. Jones, Tate and now Golloday. It would have been worse had me made those FG's.


Jets vs. Lions
Bigbyfan  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 7:35:31 PM(UTC)
The outcome of the game would have been worse if the Packers made their kicks.... can't say I've heard that logic before lol
Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 4:53:44 AM(UTC)
Bigbyfan said: Go to Quoted Post
The outcome of the game would have been worse if the Packers made their kicks.... can't say I've heard that logic before lol


Understandable, however, the Packers couldn't stop the Lions offense. When has the Packers defense got a needed stop? It doesn't happen much. They have good 2nd half success because the Packers are playing from behind and teams play more conservative.

I would have much rather had those FG's been made and proven wrong, absolutely. Watching the game, seeing the WR abuse the Packers secondary, and no pass rush, I just don't see how Lions don't stay ahead of the Packers. Especially with the stupid ass bullshit officiating. That fucking ball didn't hit King!!
Nonstopdrivel  
#18 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 8:30:29 AM(UTC)
Tramon Williams has come out and said that the officials told them on the field that the ball had touched the Lions first but that they were awarding the ball to the Lions anyway. Maybe there's something to nerdmann's conspiracy theories after all!
yooperfan  
#19 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:12:21 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel said: Go to Quoted Post
Tramon Williams has come out and said that the officials told them on the field that the ball had touched the Lions first but that they were awarding the ball to the Lions anyway. Maybe there's something to nerdmann's conspiracy theories after all!

As bad as NFL officiating has become, that's just hard to believe even for me who has walked away from the NFL in part because of bullshit like that.

sschind  
#20 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 11:02:58 AM(UTC)
dyeah_gb said: Go to Quoted Post
Just to play devil's advocate, if the Lions were forced to be more aggressive on offense, Stafford could have thrown 2 INTs. I don't have a high opinion of him. Especially since the loss of a Megatron, Stafford is probably best playing with a lead handed to him by the refs and running a basic offense.


That is entirely possible and it just helps prove the point that if the Packers had made all their field goals and extra points that the end result would not have automatically been a 33-31 Packer victory. They may have won and they may have lost by even more. There is no way to know and it is very shortsighted to simply say if they would have made the kicks they would have won.
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