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KRK
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Beast berated:
Quote:

Just my opinion, but Morrison sucked... I much prefer the Safety.

Absolutely correct on Morrison!! Always filled the wrong hole and was late on everything.

That not withstanding, it would be nice to have guy who could plug a hole on run other than Blake M.
TedThompsonsShades
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I ran the TDN mocks a number of times, and the results I thought worked best for us is when I took Hockensen at 12 and Adderley at 30. There are some quality OL available in the second and third, possibly, like Risner and Edwards. I really think we need to bolster the line with two picks if possible, so Cody Ford or Jonah Williams at 12 is an option too.

They should have their eyes out for another RB who can succeed in a zone blocking scheme and catch the ball, too.
gbguy20
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It's not always a bad thing when you end up in the wrong hole.
warhawk
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The way I look at it is drafting BPA IS filling a need. After all those months and longer of evaluating hundreds of players in how they fit your scheme, character, desire, upside, etc, that culminates in a board from best on down given only a few minutes to decide if you are going to trust the process.

The draft is the one opportunity that when your on the clock there is no competition. You can choose whoever you want. At that moment the GM has the chance to select the player with the greatest potential to contribute at the highest level for your team over the next 4-5 years and hopefully beyond.

What you hope for is a player or two like Alexander who comes out of the gate contributing at a high level but what you strive for is players like Clark and Adams who didn't necessarily come of the gate hot but are now core players for this team.

Team needs will change over the next few years. They will change next year. The need to put the best 53 on the field and find the most core type players you can rely on year in year out will not.

Why I wouldn't draft for need? Your drafting a player that happens to play a position where the player you had wasn't very good. If that player you take is not as good as others you could have chosen you are taking baby steps that will just leave your team going round and around. Never getting to the best you can be at any position. Isn't this why we are somewhat in that position now after Ted Thompson more or less chased his tale for three years?

BDP- Best damn player. PLEASE!









TedThompsonsShades
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KRK
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Question on David Edwards...especially since we have guys on the ground in Wisconsin...What is with the shoulder?

Many of us have him rated highly, but might he be foregoing the senior year because it is not healing well? I hate to be cynical, but just asking? He did not bench at the combine, so just asking?
Smokey
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Originally Posted by: KRK 

Question on David Edwards...especially since we have guys on the ground in Wisconsin...What is with the shoulder?

Many of us have him rated highly, but might he be foregoing the senior year because it is not healing well? I hate to be cynical, but just asking? He did not bench at the combine, so just asking?



Some of us have never heard of David Edwards. Could you please provide some bio info.

Thank You .
KRK
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This is the guy who did not do any benchpress at the combine and apparently has the shoulder issue which I am inquiring about:
Today, in our own backyard at Yankee Stadium, David Edwards, a massive offensive tackle prospect from Wisconsin, will be playing in the Pinstripe Bowl. The game is at 5:15 pm EST and is on ESPN.

https://www.ganggreennat...-david-edwards-wisconsin 

Edwards is a towering 6’ 7”, 320 lbs behemoth with quality movement skills for a man his size and the power to make a difference in the run game. He is a red shirt junior who came to Wisconsin as a 240 lbs tight end and is still learning the techniques that will make him a force in the NFL. Edwards shows great power in the run game that will only get better once he learns better leverage and hand usage.

Every player at the collegiate level needs refinement to play at a NFL level of proficiency, Edwards more than most because of his inexperience at the position. The thing to look for in college players is the talent necessary to make the transition to the next level. Edwards has the size, length, tenacity, power and enough movement skills to project as a plus player at his position.

Edwards has experience playing against Big Ten players like Nick Bosa, Chase Winovich and Anthony Nelson and he has performed well against them. Let’s take a look at some video from a 2017 game against Ohio State. Edwards is playing right tackle #79.

On this play Wisconsin is pulling the backside tackle to clean out the hole in an off tackle run to the right. Edwards’ job on this play is to make a cursory chip of the DE to open the hole, then move quickly to give the running back a downfield block. Because the linebacker crashes the hole and the CB drops back into zone coverage Edwards’ responsibility is to block the CB, who is the defender closest to the play.


Edwards is simply not agile enough (no OT is) to block a much smaller and quicker player. The technique used on this play is to simply stay square to the defender and wait for the RB to come up behind you. The defender has to pick a direction (right or left) to get around the blocker. Once the CB chooses, Edwards is supposed to use the defenders’ own momentum to move him in the same direction and the RB should cut off the backside of Edwards and into open space. This never happens on the play because the backside tackle and guard get tangled and miss their blocks. Nonetheless Edwards moves easily to the second level, breaks down nicely under control and is ready to make a block on the CB.

On this next play Edwards has to explode off the snap, get to the next level and cut off a pursuing ILB. This is a tough block, as the ILB is positioned to the inside of Edwards at the outset. The ILB is flowing to his right and his job is to protect against a cut back by the RB to his left.


Edwards does a good job of reaching the smaller, quicker player and using his strength to force him away from the expected hole and into oblivion. This play is designed for the RB to eventually cut back to his right, but penetration by the Ohio State defense destroys that option. Nonetheless, Edwards did his job on this play.

This next play is a play action pass that is blown up by a missed block by the center and a QB who can’t hit a wide open man because of pressure.


There are four things to notice on this play: 1) Edwards does a nice job of pushing his man outside and mirroring him so he is far away from his QB. 2) You can see how Edwards uses his length well and gains great position by getting his hands inside the DE, controlling him with ease. 3) Edwards does all this while starting from a three point stance which makes it more difficult. Wisconsin tackles use three point stances often, but Edwards will rarely use a three point stance in the NFL outside of short yardage and goal line plays. 4) The Ohio State player, #11 Jalyn Holmes, is 6’ 5” and 270 lbs, and he looks considerably smaller than Edwards.

The next clip is two consecutive plays using two different blocking schemes. Edwards is in a three point stance on each play.


The first play is a zone blocking scheme and Edwards is keeping his man controlled while allowing the RB to choose which hole he wishes to cut into. Edwards does a nice job of getting to his man and getting great position on him, keeping himself between the defender and the RB.

The second play Edwards allows his man to take himself out of the play by directing him up field while the RB is picking a hole in the center of the line. Edwards projects best in a power or gap blocking scheme, but these plays show he has enough mobility to hold his own in a zone blocking scheme as well.

The last clip shows Edwards in two pass sets. Early in Edwards’ pro career pass sets should be his biggest test as an offensive tackle.


In the first play the defender tries to power his way by Edwards while trying to slap his arms away in an effort to gain the edge; he was unsuccessful. The second is an attempt to feign an outside rush then quickly spin move himself free on the inside; again unsuccessful.

Edwards is a player who has played very well but has been under the radar as a prospect in the shadow of Jonah Williams and Dalton Risner. Edwards projects best as a right tackle prospect, but if he works on his footwork he might be able to transition over to the left side.

Edwards needs work on technique, but more of an adjustment than an overhaul. He needs better leverage in run blocking and he needs better balance especially on reach blocks. His massive size will likely prevent him from ever being great in space, but he can use that size effectively in space if he works on angles and avoiding false steps. Edwards will need a much better slide step and his hand usage is hit or miss at times. These are things that can be improved by a good offensive line coach plus the desire to get better.

It will be interesting to see Edwards at the NFL Combine to see how he matches up athletically with other tackle prospects. I currently have a mid second round grade on Edwards but that may change as I continue to assess his tape. Edwards has the right type of frame (long arms, massive body with plus strength) to develop into an above average player and a force on any offensive line. The key is whether he will put in the hard work necessary to maximize his talents. Today at the Pinstripe Bowl you can have a front row seat to judge for yourself.
beast
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Just to be clear, I think they're going to be running a lot of double TE sets with a receving TE and all around TE.

12 TE T.J. Hockenson (All around TE)

30 CB Byron Murphy (Very athletic CB)

44 OL Dalton Risner (Maybe better for OG but with TE help might be able to play RT).

75 S Darnell Savage (Great tackling and verstile S, though they missed out on those elite deep single coverage FS types)

114 TE Josh Oliver (receving TE)

118 S Marquise Blair (a developmental FS)

150 WR Stanley Morgan Jr. (A great route runner and verstile player, who Thompson would never draft because of his hands/catching need some work but Gute seems more loose with that)

185 RB Devine Ozigbo (A big RB with some nice power and work in zone blocking)

194 WR Penny Hart (Slot WR /return guy)

226 RB Elijah Holyfield (power runner, with very quick speed and great short area movement skills... but almost no speed to speak of and unproven as a receiver).
KRK
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Beast, I like your Dalton Risner pick, but just for giggles, and you know I like the big uglies... IF you were to take some OT, OG/C in the 114, 118 slots, who would you take?
warhawk
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Gute has this draft set up for a great chess match. I put the over/under of moves he makes up or down at 3.
I couldn't even begin to project how this will play out. It's going to fun watching it though.



buckeyepackfan
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No trades .
BPA


Round 1 Pick 12: Gary, Rashan, DE/DT, Michigan
Round 1 Pick 30: Lawrence, Dexter, DT, Clemson
Round 2 Pick 12: Adderley, Nassir, CB/FS, Delaware
Round 3 Pick 11: Jordan, Michael, OG/C, Ohio State
Round 4 Pick 12: Hill, Justice, RB, Oklahoma State
Round 4 Pick 16: Hall, Emanuel, WR, Missouri
Round 5 Pick 12: Webster, Ken, CB, Mississippi
Round 6 Pick 12: Alfieri, Joey, OLB, Stanford
Round 6 Pick 21: Smith, Cameron, ILB, Southern California
Round 7 Pick 12: Richard, Milan, TE, Clemson
KRK
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My Last and Final Draft BPA and Need - We are set at QB for the next 10 years:

12 T.J. Hockenson, TE Iowa
30 Daniel Jones, QB Duke
44 Deionte Thompson, S Alabama
75 Connor McGovern, IOL Penn State
114 Chuma Edoga, OT USC
118 Joe Giles-Harris, LB Duke
150 Stanley Morgan Jr., WR Nebraska
185 Elijah Holyfield, RB Georgia
194 Devine Ozigbo, RB Nebraska
226 James Williams, RB Washington State
beast
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Originally Posted by: KRK 

Beast, I like your Dalton Risner pick, but just for giggles, and you know I like the big uglies... IF you were to take some OT, OG/C in the 114, 118 slots, who would you take?


Off the top of my head, I don't know, and it would depend on who falls... though I did have one mock where I looked at some of the Oklahoma OL in that range and found them interesting, especially since they where heavy into zone blocking and were pretty good at it, and are new scheme is expected to be very heavy into it as well.

Though, on a down side, it's been argued that the Big 12 isn't exactly where you go to find the top defensive line talent and they might not of been facing even the best that college football has to offer of DL talent to face off against, which I believe Risner too.

Majority of the Packers OL over recent years have been Big 10, Pac 12 or small school

Originally Posted by: KRK 

My Last and Final Draft BPA and Need - We are set at QB for the next 10 years:

12 T.J. Hockenson, TE Iowa
30 Daniel Jones, QB Duke
44 Deionte Thompson, S Alabama
75 Connor McGovern, IOL Penn State
114 Chuma Edoga, OT USC
118 Joe Giles-Harris, LB Duke
150 Stanley Morgan Jr., WR Nebraska
185 Elijah Holyfield, RB Georgia
194 Devine Ozigbo, RB Nebraska
226 James Williams, RB Washington State



BUT, BUT 😕 you waited until pick #75 to draft OL 👅 🤣

I remember Chuma Edoga was another one I was looking at and had some interested in.

3 RBs to close? ... though I like your first two late power RBs (don't know the 3rd guy), but Holyfield is interesting other than he has no speed... but great power and quickness, if he had average speed he would be a lot better... if he had good speed he could be great (but he doesn't), but hey, if you're just looking for 1st downs and not touchdowns, he might still be great within context.
KRK
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Beast Enumerated
Quote:

😕 😕 you waited until pick #75 to draft OL 🤣

🤣 I am too dumb to know (and lazy not to learn) how to trade down and gotten another second round or early 3rd pick, otherwise, I would have pick one higher. I actually like the Penn State guy alot....I think he starts.
Quote:

I looked at some of the Oklahoma OL in that range and found them interesting, especially since they where heavy into zone blocking and were pretty good at it, and are new scheme is expected to be very heavy into it as well.

Great point....part of the problem in picking guys is understanding the system they came form to project fit, and these guys would seem to fit. I just am not enamored with the whole Big 12 thing. If I pulled game film and could see whether or not they did well against quality outside the Big 12, I might be more interested.
Quote:

3 RBs to close? ..

Yeah, I kind of got bored with it. I figured if I had a 33% hit rate, we would have our 3rd guy. Also, yes, I am more interested in an guy who will consistently move the chains, especially on short yardage, and pass protect, versus the flash (realistically, that is the most you can hope for in a 7th round guy.)
KRK
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With the numerous websites and mock drafts predicting the Packers will draft TJ Hockenson TE from Iowa, it is now approaching 95% that certainty that they will not.
beast
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Originally Posted by: KRK 

With the numerous websites and mock drafts predicting the Packers will draft TJ Hockenson TE from Iowa, it is now approaching 95% that certainty that they will not.



Depends on whose available (including if Hockinson is still available), I think it could come down to Gute's opinion on position value vs complete player value.

Like it was widely believed that OG Quenton Nelson was the best player (or top three at worse) in last year draft, though no one thought he actually going to go in the top three because he's position is considered less valuable.

Like that so is TE (though not as much as OG), but Hockenson is also pretty much a complete player other than he only has average speed.


But teams might want the complete player, or they might want a more valuable and harder to find quality position like CB, edge rusher, etc.
beast
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Testing, testing, 1 2 3
beast
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Championship! :P

12 TE T.J. Hockenson, Complete TE, only has average speed, but has everything else and he can catch, run people over and make some miss, but as a blocking TE he's everything you might want and will help an OT if they need it.

30 FS Nasir Adderley, former CB, I think is perfect for what the Packers are looking for, a guy that plays smart, discipline, can hold up deep down field and ton of physical upside.

44 CB Julian Love, simply a very smart and verstile CB, who gets a ton of out his talent by making minimum mistakes just like S Amos who they just signed.

75 RB Damien Harris, power RB who can catch the ball as well and give the team the physical power RB.

114 WR Mecole Hardman, slot WR with great quickness and speed, but wasn't asked to learn many routes and wasn't used to the best of his abilities. Though Gute talked about wanting to get larger at slot WR, but Hardman physically abilities and the fact I think they're going to draft a returner (which Hardman does as well) made me grab him at least once. Two speed WRs on the field at once could come in handy at some point if a team struggles with speed.

118 TE Josh Oliver, A receving TE and Jimmy Graham's back-up, with a lot of athletic potential to grow.

150 OT Chuma Edoga, a VERY athletic OT, that needs some more developmental, namely with his hand use and technic, as well as his overall power. He needs development, but he's athletic enough he stay at LT if he's able to fix his problems and at this price I think it's worth a risk.
========

185 Edge Jalen Jelks, I HAD to draft Jelks at some point just to talk about him (and.no I don't believe he should fall this far, but they had it, so I went with it). Jelks is built tall, thin and long, almost just like Fackrell, but they're completely opposites... though neither one was taught/used as an edge rusher in college. Fackrell was more of a coverage zone nickel CB role, and Jelks played 3-4 DE.

Jelks somehow with that tall long body did quite well playing physical! But there just is almost no hope he can stay at interior DL, and despite being quite athletic, he's shown zero knowledge of playing edge and knowing how to set himself up, to be able to turn the corner like you would expect from an edge rusher.

Long story short, you can't just simply throw Jelks out there, he's a mismatch in a bad way... but he's athletic, and tough as needed getting everything out body he can, if a defensive coordinator uses Jelks smartly, they can set him up to protect the edge and then sometime ask him to dive up the middle and have a DB blitz the edge like Pettine does and it very well might work.

Sorry for all of that, I'm just find Jelks interesting, while he's got a major proper fit problem in his game, he's also got some majority toughness and raw athletic tools
=========

194 RB Devine Ozigbo, a big body, one year wonder, who reshaped his body and got into a new scheme full of zone concepts and used quickness and power and took advantage. Ozigbo really could be a diamond in the rough, or a bust if he reverts... but swing for the fences and Aaron Jones was the 2nd RB in his Packers draft class.

226 ILB Terrill Hanks, former Safety, with coverage LB size moved to LB his last year... GREAT athletic skill set for the 7th round, and quick to attack. The problems are that he's still adjusting to a new position, he's not good at dealing with OL blocks (most coverage ILBers aren't), and worse of all seems to have a low football IQ.... meaning he needs to have a simple system, or agressive system that tells him what to do so he doesn't have to think.

Hanks is great if it's simply, see ball, get ball (so hopefully great ST player), or simply follow that guy in coverage... but if you start asking him to read and react, he's a goner.
KRK
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Guys I know in Buffalo think they are taking TJ Hockenson at 9.
Rockmolder
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Originally Posted by: KRK 

Guys I know in Buffalo think they are taking TJ Hockenson at 9.



I could see why. A tight end is a young QB's best friend, especially when that QB hasn't looked all that great during his rookie season.

They only had Jason Croom left on the roster. They overpaid for Tyler Kroft, just so they could have something at TE. Then added an offensive linemen in Jake Fisher in the hope that he'll pan out as a blocking tight end. There's certainly a need at the position.

Only thing is that Beane hasn't exactly drafted for need so far, but I guess he has to help Allen out and a lot of the value picks at 9 are on the other side of the ball. I'm reading a lot about replacing Kyle Williams with Wilkins, Oliver or Gary, but I'd rather see if I could trade back and help Allen in some sort of way. Helping him get going should be your number 1 priority, even if it means giving up 30 points per game this year.
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