Green Bay Packers Forum

Join Our Green Bay Packers Interactive Community!

We have been providing fans with the best source of Packers information since 2006!
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Pack93z  
#1 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 3:26:13 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

United States
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 403
Applause Received: 1,097

Notice the comment from Moss.. "when my job is on the line"... I think it is safe to say, the heat has been applied at 1265 Lombardi..


http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/318300

Quote:
GREEN BAY -- If the Green Bay Packers are serious about playing their best three linebackers, they may have a difficult decision before Sunday's game at Jacksonville.

With Brandon Chillar returning to full participation in practice Thursday, Desmond Bishop having had a greater impact in one game than his linebacking mates have had all season and linebackers coach Winston Moss openly calling for A.J. Hawk to be more productive, might the coaches consider a lineup of Chillar, Bishop and Brady Poppinga?

"When my job is on the line, the guys that give us the best chance to win within the game plan, they're the guys who play," Moss said Thursday.

Perhaps, but Bishop realizes he wasn't the No. 5 overall pick in the 2006 NFL draft like Hawk, and he wasn't the team's lone offseason free-agent signing like Chillar. Thus, as a 2007 sixth-round draft pick, he could find himself back on the bench Sunday against the Jaguars, despite his productivity.

Asked if his performance in Sunday's loss to Houston -- 12 tackles, a sack, another tackle for loss and two forced fumbles -- merited him starting at will linebacker against the Jaguars regardless of Chillar's health, Bishop chose his words carefully.

"I don't know. I don't think it's about what you do anymore," said Bishop, who started at will linebacker against the Texans after Chillar suffered a groin injury in practice during the week. "I think it's beyond that. It's something else. I don't know what it is, but it's something beyond what you do on the field. I don't know how to explain it. I don't even know if that made sense."

Actually, it makes perfect sense. When starting middle linebacker Nick Barnett was lost for the year with a torn ACL in his right knee suffered Nov. 9 at Minnesota, Bishop finished the game at the position. But the coaches decided to shift Hawk from the weakside into the middle and start Chillar at Hawk's spot.

Hawk (12 tackles) and Chillar (six tackles, one pass breakup, one quarterback pressure) both responded with strong performances against Chicago on Nov. 16, but Hawk hasn't played well in the three games since, causing Moss to call for more productivity from him this week.

Hawk, who suffered a preseason chest injury and played through a groin injury suffered Sept. 28 at Tampa Bay, enters Sunday's game with a team-high 90 tackles, two sacks (both at Detroit Sept. 14) and two pass breakups but no interceptions, fumbles forced or recovered.

"We need to get more production out of him. And I think he's well aware of that," Moss said Monday. "With his talent level and the position he's in right now, we're going to expect more, we're demanding more. I think he's ready to give that, so with that, our emphasis is going to be on him getting in good positions to be impactful.

"I'm confident in A.J. I'm a big A.J. fan. And I spend a lot of time with him. I have as much invested in him doing well as he (does) in himself. He's going to get back on track and he's going to make some plays for us before this is over with."

On Thursday, Moss added, "There's been some flashes in the past. This year, he started off fast. He had some sacks, had a lot of tackles early on, and he was fighting through that (chest) injury. Then all of a sudden, he tweaks his groin, so he takes a step back. Then we switch positions on him.

Asked Thursday if Moss is right that he hasn't had the impact he should, Hawk replied, "Of course I haven't. I haven't been producing as much as I should have. I definitely want to produce more. I can handle (the criticism). I talked to (Moss). We communicate. So it's nothing new. I know what's going on."

Chillar said after practice he is "definitely better" than he was last week, when he strained his groin during team drills. Asked if he thought there is a chance he may not start against Jacksonville even if he's healthy, Chillar stuck to the script he's been following since Poppinga beat him out for the starting sam linebacker job in training camp.

"I'm not sure. I guess we'll have to find out," Chillar said. "(Bishop) did a good job stepping in and playing. We'll see where it leads us. I'll try to help the team wherever I can. That's been my stance the whole year."

When asked what he'll do Sunday given Bishop's strong performance against Houston, coach Mike McCarthy acknowleged it is an "excellent question."

"I think it's very obvious, you don't have enough good quality productive football players," McCarthy said. "So we'll find a way to make that work."

Granted, Bishop hasn't played flawless football. Against Minnesota, he overran running back Chester Taylor on a short checkdown pass, allowing Taylor to sprint 47 yards for a touchdown on his first play from scrimmage. Then, on Adrian Peterson's go-ahead 29-yard touchdown run with 2:22 left in the game, Bishop was out of his gap and left Peterson an open lane to the end zone.

Against the Texans, while his strip of tight end Owen Daniels saved a touchdown and his sack and 3-yard tackle-for-loss of Cecil Sapp were both big plays, he also lost coverage on Daniels on a 27-yard completion to set up the game-winning field goal.

"I think I could've done things better. You can always do more, but I think I did well," said Bishop, who leads the team in fumbles forced (three). "I think with more reps, I could even be better."

Moss doesn't disagree. He just wants to see more evidence before recommending any bold moves.

"The jury's still out on Bishop as far as what kind of player he is," Moss said. "We know that he's a very talented player, a very active player. He flashed in the preseason. If I had more of a body of work on Bishop to compare against A.J., then I would be able to answer a little bit better. I'm still holding on that when it's all said and done, A.J. has not given me any (reason to think) that he's not able to be impactful. Could he have played some things better? Absolutely. You can go down the line and say that about every player on this team.

"I would have to say that Bishop has done well when he's been in there. Now, we can find ways to get guys on the field. As a staff, as always, we go into it trying to find the best combination that gives us the best chance to win. If he's part of that group, he's in there."
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
Sponsor
Offline warhawk  
#2 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 3:55:54 PM(UTC)
warhawk

Rank: 3rd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 1
Applause Received: 230

Well, if there was ever a "nobody's job is safe" time it's now. Let Chillar play the last three minutes when we are up by two and the other team has to pass to beat us...again.

Bishop is our only LB that doesn't look like a robot on low batteries. Even if he makes a mistake once in awhile the D can get some energy off this guy.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline Timmons  
#3 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 3:56:10 PM(UTC)
Timmons

Rank: Practice Squad

Joined: 8/23/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 3

The jury is still out on Bishop because he doesn't get the playing time. Hawk continues to dissapoint, no matter where they play him. If he's injured and that's the reason, then why is he on the field? We need an LB core that has a monster in it.

The weakness that persists at our Dline and LB core needs to be addressed.
blank
Offline dfosterf  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 4:14:01 PM(UTC)
dfosterf

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

United States
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 213
Applause Received: 437

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Well, if there was ever a "nobody's job is safe" time it's now. Let Chillar play the last three minutes when we are up by two and the other team has to pass to beat us...again.

Bishop is our only LB that doesn't look like a robot on low batteries. Even if he makes a mistake once in awhile the D can get some energy off this guy.


Man, the difference was palpable early on in that game. If he hadn't got toasted in pass coverage, this discussion wouldn't even be occurring. I'm not going to speak to his talent level, or his lack of playing time, but I will say this. As well as he played, bottom line, he didn't produce in a very critical situation, so he should probably be a bit more circumspect when issuing commentary. I still want to see him in there, but allusions to draft position and the inequity of it all...well, wait until you have a little better case, I say. For one, he is who we thought he was, and that is not necessarily a great thing, as much as I like what he brings to the table, he still hasn't shown that he can be counted upon come clutch time, especially in pass coverage. It is what it is, as much as I enjoyed his intensity and the results of it.

I think Hawk is still hurt. Not an excuse I'm trying to generate, it is just what I think. Or hope?
UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Pack93z  
#5 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 4:36:00 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

United States
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 403
Applause Received: 1,097

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Man, the difference was palpable early on in that game. If he hadn't got toasted in pass coverage, this discussion wouldn't even be occurring. I'm not going to speak to his talent level, or his lack of playing time, but I will say this. As well as he played, bottom line, he didn't produce in a very critical situation, so he should probably be a bit more circumspect when issuing commentary. I still want to see him in there, but allusions to draft position and the inequity of it all...well, wait until you have a little better case, I say. For one, he is who we thought he was, and that is not necessarily a great thing, as much as I like what he brings to the table, he still hasn't shown that he can be counted upon come clutch time, especially in pass coverage. It is what it is, as much as I enjoyed his intensity and the results of it.

I think Hawk is still hurt. Not an excuse I'm trying to generate, it is just what I think. Or hope?


That is a fine point.

But if we are going to use that, then Poppinga letting Leach go completely on the goal line shouldn't be overlooked either.. he read the play incorrectly and released him into a flat where no one was at.. that play was a far bigger blunder than Bishop not keeping up with an athletic Tight End that is becoming a pro bowl level player.. mind you from U of Wisconsin as well.

And Poppinga has a hell of a lot more experience to make a blunder like that.

We had the Texans pinned and Poppinga blew it completely.. as he said, he read run on a pretty generic play action play.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
Offline dfosterf  
#6 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 4:49:10 PM(UTC)
dfosterf

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

United States
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 213
Applause Received: 437

I have to classify Pack's commentary as a supplemental bitch as contrasted with an alternative bitch. I think I got off reasonably lightly, in that I am encroaching upon his bitching terrain. I'm going to take my skinny ass on home back to the offensive line bitching section of this forum now.
UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline warhawk  
#7 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 4:57:29 PM(UTC)
warhawk

Rank: 3rd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 1
Applause Received: 230

Well I can tell you this and that is our LB's aren't going to stand a chance in coverage if the QB is left standing in the pocket with nothing blocking his line of sight and TE's are allowed to cross all the way over the middle before he even let's it go.

I have also seen a lot of needles thread with the LB's in very tight coverage but again, the QB was standing back there and threw the ball into a barrell. Notice the difference in Bree's when the heat was on last night? He was missing guys wide open. Against us he looked like a sailor in a red light district. Hit everything on two legs.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline Pack93z  
#8 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 5:03:21 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

United States
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 403
Applause Received: 1,097

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I have to classify Pack's commentary as a supplemental bitch as contrasted with an alternative bitch. I think I got off reasonably lightly, in that I am encroaching upon his bitching terrain. I'm going to take my skinny ass on home back to the offensive line bitching section of this forum now.


LOL.. nah.. come join the party.. :lol:

I promise you that I will not focus on the backers this week.. I might try to jump through the TV and try to pick a fight with oxygen boy to instill some freaking fire into him.. maybe knocking my head around will light the fire.

Linebacker, to me, is the most instinctive position on the field.. and that is what bothers me the most.. other than Bishop last week, these boys were slower cognitively than Cheech and Chong falling out of a smoke filled fan. :lol:

I think Warhawk stated it best.. a robot on low batteries..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
Offline dfosterf  
#9 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 5:11:18 PM(UTC)
dfosterf

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

United States
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 213
Applause Received: 437

I liked the sailor/hooker one. +1 for squids and hookers.

Today must be analogy day.

I think there might very possibly be an alternative reality with regards to our linebacking. AJ Hawk could be getting the nod because he is auditioning for a job in 2009. I still feel like our personnel department is linebacker-centric.
UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Greg C.  
#10 Posted : Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:43:39 AM(UTC)
Greg C.

Rank: Pro Bowl

Joined: 8/9/2008(UTC)
Location: Marquette, Michigan

Applause Received: 48

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
"I don't know. I don't think it's about what you do anymore," said Bishop, who started at will linebacker against the Texans after Chillar suffered a groin injury in practice during the week. "I think it's beyond that. It's something else. I don't know what it is, but it's something beyond what you do on the field. I don't know how to explain it. I don't even know if that made sense."


I agree with dfosterf that Bishop should stay away from comments like this. He made what was probably the single biggest game-losing play against the Texans. I'm sick of watching this team fold in crunch time, so my tolerance for comments like this is at a low point right now.

Having said that, I've liked Bishop a lot ever since the preseason, and I wouldn't mind seeing him in the starting lineup next year, if there's a way to do it without putting anyone else out of position.

I also agree with dfosterf that Hawk is not fully healthy. If he is healthy, and he's really this mediocre, he may play himself out of the league within a few years. Our LB's have been a big disappointment overall this season. I thought they were going to be one of the strongest groups of LB's in the league. Instead, they have been average at best. And average isn't good enough.
blank
Offline brnt247  
#11 Posted : Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:28:38 PM(UTC)
brnt247

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/11/2008(UTC)


You can tell Bishop hasn't talked in front of the media many times lol.
blank
Offline Pack93z  
#12 Posted : Saturday, December 13, 2008 3:01:44 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

United States
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 403
Applause Received: 1,097

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


I also agree with dfosterf that Hawk is not fully healthy. If he is healthy, and he's really this mediocre, he may play himself out of the league within a few years. Our LB's have been a big disappointment overall this season. I thought they were going to be one of the strongest groups of LB's in the league. Instead, they have been average at best. And average isn't good enough.


Here is the thing.. if he is not fully healthy and not able to provide more than what he has been.. then he shouldn't be in there.. especially not at the pivotal position of Middle Linebacker.. if it comes out that he has been playing with a significant injury.. then I will even be further disappointed with Moss and Sanders..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
Offline brnt247  
#13 Posted : Saturday, December 13, 2008 3:16:42 PM(UTC)
brnt247

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/11/2008(UTC)


It really wouldn't make much sense to not play Bishop this week. I would like to see us just using Poppinga in the rotation at DE and make room for Bishop, Chillar, and Hawk.
blank
Offline Greg C.  
#14 Posted : Saturday, December 13, 2008 5:26:20 PM(UTC)
Greg C.

Rank: Pro Bowl

Joined: 8/9/2008(UTC)
Location: Marquette, Michigan

Applause Received: 48

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


I also agree with dfosterf that Hawk is not fully healthy. If he is healthy, and he's really this mediocre, he may play himself out of the league within a few years. Our LB's have been a big disappointment overall this season. I thought they were going to be one of the strongest groups of LB's in the league. Instead, they have been average at best. And average isn't good enough.


Here is the thing.. if he is not fully healthy and not able to provide more than what he has been.. then he shouldn't be in there.. especially not at the pivotal position of Middle Linebacker.. if it comes out that he has been playing with a significant injury.. then I will even be further disappointed with Moss and Sanders..


I hear ya on that one. But with the higher-profile players, it seems like coaches are reluctant to sit them unless they are injured in a way that drastically hinders their performance. I still think Favre should have missed some games in '99 with the bad thumb and in '00 with the bad wrist. He played some of the worst games of his career with those injuries, and they never got a chance to heal during the season.
blank
Offline go.pack.go.  
#15 Posted : Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:36:38 PM(UTC)
go.pack.go.

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 11/12/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 1
Applause Received: 44

Why is it that Moss said "When my job is on the line, the guys that give us the best chance to win within the game plan, they're the guys who play"? Shouldn't the best linebackers be playing all the time anyway? Not just when your job is on the line.
Signature made by me
UserPostedImage
SUPERBOWL XLV CHAMPS!!!!
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DakotaT

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / steveishere

9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / GermanGilbert

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Wizard3461

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / RaiderPride

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / nyrpack

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / musccy

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Dulak

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / luigis

17-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool


Tweeter