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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#31 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:35:32 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel

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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
No, he's not as good as Favre


Not as good as Favre was, you mean.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Yes, he needs to improve.


He does? He was a top-6 quarterback for most of the season. It took Favre several seasons to even come close to the kind of output Rodgers had this season. At least 20 teams would probably kill to have a QB as good as ours was this season. Does he have to be No. 1 in every statistical category to satisfy Packers fans? By that standard, Favre himself would never have been good enough for Green Bay, considering he never once lead the league in passer rating!

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Let's lighten up fellas.


I agree.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Bozz it just pisses me off that alot of posters are basically putting this guy in the hall of fame after one good stats year.


Please point out one poster who is putting Rodgers in the Hall of Fame at this point.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
all the Rodgers lovers are also Favre haters.


I'm a Favre critic, not a Favre hater. I have nothing but admiration for what he did for this team in the first few years of his career. But I don't give him a pass for his faults simply because he had some amazing seasons.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
They are pissed that Brett wanted to go play somewhere else.


Actually, I was pissed that after retiring as close to the top as he would ever get, he then tried to unretire. I was pissed that he was presumptuous enough to assume the Packers owed it to him to let him return to the team, even after going through most of the offseason with Rodgers as the designated starter. I was pissed that he was presumptuous enough to demand that the team whose fans had worshiped the ground he walked on for the past 16 years release him without compensation to play for a division rival, a move he himself later admitted was "vindictive."

Yes, I was pissed. Thankfully, we were blessed with a quarterback who more than took away my irritation with Favre -- he made me excited for the future. Therefore, I couldn't care less where Favre plays next season, and as I said in another thread, I hope he does come back.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
cmon they are saying Rodgers did no wrong at all this year


Name one person who is saying this. We've all been clear in our assertions that Rodgers holds some responsibility for the losses. The point of this thread is that the allegation he has no come-from-behind drives in the 4th quarter is patently false, and that when you look at the statistics, it's obvious more of the responsibility is on the shoulders of the defense and special teams. (Come on, you still haven't addressed my point that in the Carolina game, the Packers' offense held the ball for 16 of the last 19 minutes!).

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I simply asked what angle was he going for because he claims he had a 4th quarter comeback but then in the article it also said Rodgers threw a pick to seal the loss.


He did have a 4th-quarter comeback. He had two in the Carolina game alone. That was my only point, and it's indisputable.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
So i disn't know if the nail in the coffin was that he can't win games at the end or if it was that they were trying to find a way to dismiss that fact.


You still haven't addressed my question: What more can you expect your quarterback to do than to hold the ball for 13 minutes of the final quarter, lead the team to a lead twice in that quarter? Yes, you can hope he'll secure a third lead, but is that a reasonable expectation?

And yes, to a certain extent I am trying to dismiss this argument. Not because what you're saying is factually inaccurate -- it's not -- but because it's irrelevant and a moot point. This has everything to do with Brett Favre adulation and nothing to do with Aaron Rodgers' actual performance on the field. That is blatantly unfair to Rodgers.

Had Favre not established for himself the mythos of the "master of the come-from-behind victory," we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's my point. Rodgers has the unfortunate burden of being Favre's successor, and that is what this is all about.
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Offline TheEngineer  
#32 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:37:01 AM(UTC)
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Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Bozz it just pisses me off that alot of posters are basically putting this guy in the hall of fame after one good stats year. My honest opinion is that all the Rodgers lovers are also Favre haters. They are pissed that Brett wanted to go play somewhere else. If Rodgers keeps playing well for the next few years then fine i can see the praise but cmon they are saying Rodgers did no wrong at all this year and we lost because of the rest of the team, isn't that putting one player ahead of the team (oh wait they wouldn't do that because they hate players like that). I asked a simple question to NON about his original post and it went down hill from there. I simply asked what angle was he going for because he claims he had a 4th quarter comeback but then in the article it also said Rodgers threw a pick to seal the loss. So i disn't know if the nail in the coffin was that he can't win games at the end or if it was that they were trying to find a way to dismiss that fact.


Edit: Kinda funny i get to do the Qbs for the project maybe its good because i don't wear the goggles on any player.


You're losing your credibility with this post dhazer. When you start generalising you start weakening your argument. You are also making baseless assumptions of other people's thoughts, which as you should know, are unique to each person.

Again, nobody said Rodgers did no wrong. You are misinterpreting what people are saying. They are saying that Rodgers did perform a 4th quarter comeback, by definition of the term, with facts and statistics to support their argument.

Nobody is saying Rodgers is a hall of fame player. Nobody said Rodgers is a god. Nobody said any of that stuff, but you seem to think any praise on Rodgers, or any concession for Rodgers, seems to be placing him upon a pedestal. No, in fact, what we're trying to do is to dig Rodgers out of that massive hole a lot of posters are throwing him into through sound reasoning and logic.

Also, it doesn't matter if the team scores more than a TD to be considered a comeback. Just because we put the Lions away in the first game doesn't make it any less of a comeback. If you can score more than once to put the game out of reach, you better believe they'll do it.
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Offline Stevetarded  
#33 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:41:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Bozz it just pisses me off that alot of posters are basically putting this guy in the hall of fame after one good stats year. My honest opinion is that all the Rodgers lovers are also Favre haters. They are pissed that Brett wanted to go play somewhere else. If Rodgers keeps playing well for the next few years then fine i can see the praise but cmon they are saying Rodgers did no wrong at all this year and we lost because of the rest of the team, isn't that putting one player ahead of the team (oh wait they wouldn't do that because they hate players like that). I asked a simple question to NON about his original post and it went down hill from there. I simply asked what angle was he going for because he claims he had a 4th quarter comeback but then in the article it also said Rodgers threw a pick to seal the loss. So i disn't know if the nail in the coffin was that he can't win games at the end or if it was that they were trying to find a way to dismiss that fact.


Edit: Kinda funny i get to do the Qbs for the project maybe its good because i don't wear the goggles on any player.


I don't know what kind of goggles they are but you are definitely wearing some. I have not seen a single thing that would indicate people putting Rodgers in the hall or calling him a superstar like you say. That is a huge overreaction on your part. I would be willing to bet that 95% of the pro-rodgers posts here are doing nothing but combating criticisms (such was the case with the OP of this thread). Criticizing him is fine it's just about the way you go about it. Blaming the guy for our losing season when he outperformed most of the other QBs in the NFL this year is dumb. He probably wouldn't make the top 10 of things wrong with this team.

In most of the games that I watched Rodgers seemed like the only thing that was working well. Everyone to supports the QB of their favorite football team are only doing so because they hate Brett Favre??? WTF is that. No, you are right. We should all just throw the guy under the bus and ignore the fact that our offense was top 10 and our defense was 22.
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Offline beast  
#34 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:50:52 AM(UTC)
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Since people are comparing Rodgers and Favre.

Rodgers in the 4th Quarter had a QB rating of 87.8 and 89.4 in the 4th Quarter when the game is within 7 points.

Last time Favre tied or had better numbers......

In 2001 Favre had a better QB rating in the 4th Quarter

and you have to go back to 1998 for a tied or better QB rating for 4th Quarter within 7 points.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#35 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:56:03 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel

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Interesting statistics, beast. Where did you find them?
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Offline beast  
#36 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:59:53 AM(UTC)
beast

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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Interesting statistics, beast. Where did you find them?


NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/playe...tionalstats?id=ROD339293
http://www.nfl.com/playe...AV540222&season=2001
http://www.nfl.com/playe...AV540222&season=1998

last time I've heard that was a credible source.
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Offline Rios39  
#37 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:13:13 AM(UTC)
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Well I'm afraid the proof is in the pudding on this one.
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Offline dhazer  
#38 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:52:04 AM(UTC)
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Rank: Pro Bowl MVP

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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Well I'm afraid the proof is in the pudding on this one.
i give up cuz here we go with the bs stat of passer rating lol. Whatever i still see 6-10 as a record. I read an article on how stupid the passer rating actually is, It was saying something like that the top 20 qbs this year had better passer rating then the leading qb 10 years ago. But whatever i see alot of people trying to say they never said things. So i plain give up on saying anything about the FRANCHISE not bad for a guy that played one year. I'm just going to read the boards and not make any more posts.


ps just think how good his passer rating would have been if he didnt have that i think z figured it out to be 53 in the final 5 minutes.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline beast  
#39 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:59:04 AM(UTC)
beast

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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
here we go with the bs stat of passer rating


Why is BS?

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I read an article on how stupid the passer rating actually is


Please send link.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Whatever i still see 6-10 as a record.


That's how the team did. Not Rodgers.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#40 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:06:41 AM(UTC)
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Rodgers did have a come back in the first Detroit, GB was down by 1 and got a FG with 5:17 left. Could this be why they start saying in the final 5 minutes? I think so.

But since Woodson gets a pick right after and Jackson scores a TD to extend the lead, then Woodson and Collins each get a pick 6 putting the game way out of reach, it no longer matters.

I would like to see Rodgers do better, and I would also like to the McCarthy give him a chance to do better. It seems that in the 2 minute offense that Rodgers does not have full controll. That should be expanded this next year.
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Offline yooperfan  
#41 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:30:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Rodgers did have a come back in the first Detroit, GB was down by 1 and got a FG with 5:17 left. Could this be why they start saying in the final 5 minutes? I think so.

But since Woodson gets a pick right after and Jackson scores a TD to extend the lead, then Woodson and Collins each get a pick 6 putting the game way out of reach, it no longer matters.

I would like to see Rodgers do better, and I would also like to the McCarthy give him a chance to do better. It seems that in the 2 minute offense that Rodgers does not have full controll. That should be expanded this next year.


I kind of see McCarthy wanting to hold the reins on the kid in his 1st year as the starter but he really has to turn thr kid loose especially in the red zone.
Offline porky88  
#42 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:49:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Actually, the lead changed three times in the last 14 minutes; it only changed twice in the last 10 minutes. However, those numbers are deceiving, because in fact those two lead changes occurred within 27 seconds (1:57 and 1:30) of each other, after Rodgers had lead the team on a 10-minute drive. Anyone trying to pin this defeat on Rodgers is seriously grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Once again ignoring the problem Aaron Rodgers has leading the team to a comeback would be a HUGE mistake.


As I have said elsewhere, we wouldn't even be having this conversation had Favre not happened to come from behind and win his first game back in 1992. Other quarterbacks aren't held to this standard you are mentioning.


I'm not comparing him to Brett Favre and your confusing Aaron Rodgers being bad in the final minutes with it's all Aaron Rodgers fault. I'm certainly not saying that.

Matt Ryan

He lead the Falcons back over the Bears I remember. That's one more comeback than Aaron Rodgers.

Joe Flacco

Lead Baltimore into field goal range to beat the Titans in the playoffs.

No matter how you twist it, Aaron Rodgers was not a good quarterback in the final drive. That's not a terrible thing and it's not the end of the world. It doesn't mean he should be replaced, but it's a telling stat that shows he needs to continue to work hard.

The problem I see with his throws is he's in a bit of a rush with a minute in a half left. That's plenty of time in the NFL. That's a lifetime and once Rodgers realizes that on the field, he'll win a close game. Eventually I believe it will happen and once he wins one, Rodgers will win another.
Offline Rios39  
#43 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:21:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Actually, the lead changed three times in the last 14 minutes; it only changed twice in the last 10 minutes. However, those numbers are deceiving, because in fact those two lead changes occurred within 27 seconds (1:57 and 1:30) of each other, after Rodgers had lead the team on a 10-minute drive. Anyone trying to pin this defeat on Rodgers is seriously grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Once again ignoring the problem Aaron Rodgers has leading the team to a comeback would be a HUGE mistake.


As I have said elsewhere, we wouldn't even be having this conversation had Favre not happened to come from behind and win his first game back in 1992. Other quarterbacks aren't held to this standard you are mentioning.


I'm not comparing him to Brett Favre and your confusing Aaron Rodgers being bad in the final minutes with it's all Aaron Rodgers fault. I'm certainly not saying that.

Matt Ryan

He lead the Falcons back over the Bears I remember. That's one more comeback than Aaron Rodgers.

Joe Flacco

Lead Baltimore into field goal range to beat the Titans in the playoffs.

No matter how you twist it, Aaron Rodgers was not a good quarterback in the final drive. That's not a terrible thing and it's not the end of the world. It doesn't mean he should be replaced, but it's a telling stat that shows he needs to continue to work hard.

The problem I see with his throws is he's in a bit of a rush with a minute in a half left. That's plenty of time in the NFL. That's a lifetime and once Rodgers realizes that on the field, he'll win a close game. Eventually I believe it will happen and once he wins one, Rodgers will win another.


Rodgersl led the Packers to game winning FG's over the Bears and Vikings, Crosby just didn't get it done.
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Offline JNelson87  
#44 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:37:04 AM(UTC)
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Mainly the point of this thread is that Rodgers has led us to a 4th quarter lead or tie. Not really a comeback but he put the team in position to win multiple times and the defense and special teams choked. Rodgers choked too, i wont leave him out.. but in most situations, after he led us to a lead or tie, the D fell apart. They really only gave Rodgers 2 minutes or even less than a minute to work with and what can u really do with that much time? In my opinion, Rodgers did what he was suppoused to do (most of the time) and the D fell apart (most of the time) That's how our year was.

I'm not trying to push the blame on one certain area cause the whole team didnt really play well. Our offense was okay but not as fast and tough as they were last year. Our defense was a joke, thanks to key injuries and poor coaching. Our special teams do what they do every year, nothing. This season was a wake up call. The new coaches should but a fire in these guys for next year cause you know they are gunna have a huge chip on their shoulder. Next year we'll see some Aaron Rodgers 4th quarter comebacks and maybe our D can hold a lead.
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Offline wils0646  
#45 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:27:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And wils before you smart off why don't you check your facts the last game of the season we never trailed and i guess i could give you the 1st lions game if you claim a comeback when you win by 23 lol. But hey your the expert of everything so your right.


Did you read my freakin' post? Jesus man.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
He won both of those games in the 4th quarter. They were either tied or losing in both going into the 4th.
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