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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:35:31 PM(UTC)
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The host of a local radio sports-talk show I like pointed this out a couple of nights ago, so I went back through the play-by-play and reviewed the game highlights to confirm that he was, in fact, right.

For those of you who say Rodgers has no 4th-quarter comebacks, I give you the Green Bay/Carolina game. Here is the 4th-quarter rundown:

The Packers enter the 4th quarter on the CAR 33, tied at 21-21, having already held the ball for the last 3:02 of the 3rd quarter. Three plays later, Rodgers tosses a 21-yard TD pass to Gregg Jennings, and the extra point is good.

Score: 28-21 with 13:43 remaining.

On the ensuing possession, Tramon Williams intercepts a pass to Muhsin Muhammad, but is also charged with pass interference, which is enforced at the 50. (Defense fucks up.) Barely one minute and 21 seconds later, DeAngelo Williams runs it in for a 1-yard TD. (Defense folds.)

Score: 28-28 with 11:10 remaining.

The Packers then march down the field to the CAR 14, where Rodgers is sacked out-of-bounds and Julius Peppers is called for unnecessary roughness (enforced at the 7, half the distance to the goal line). Inexplicably, Mike McCarthy, who has the best red-zone quarterback in the league, then calls 3 consecutive runs for a grand total of 6 yards (all on the first play), and the Packers are forced to settle for a 19-yard field goal.

Score: 31-28 with 1:57 remaining.

On the ensuing kickoff, M. Jones is pushed out of bounds at the CAR 45. (Special teams folds.) On the next play, Brandon Chillar and Charles Woodson are burned for a 54-yard pass to Steve Smith, who is downed at the GB 1. (Defense folds . . . again.) Next play DeAngelo Williams runs it in for a TD. Jarrett Bush is also called for off-sides, which is assessed on the ensuing kickoff. (Defense fucks up . . . again.)

Score: 31-35 with 1:30 remaining.

On the ensuing kickoff, Tramon Williams returns the ball to the GB 17. The following play, Rodgers throws an incomplete pass to Jennings. On the next pass, he throws an interception intended for Donald Driver. If you look at the replay, Driver looks completely confused, so there was obviously some sort of miscommunication. It's impossible to know who was at fault here. Either way, he was tightly covered, so it was a risky throw.

Score: 31-35 with 1:09 remaining.

On the ensuing three plays, Carolina runs out the clock, running for a total of 8 yards (all on the first play). They then punt to the GB 6.

Score: 31-35 with 0:02 remaining.

Rodgers throws an incomplete pass to Jennings.

END OF GAME.
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Offline Rios39  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:40:46 PM(UTC)
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On the interception Donald Driver waved for the ball because he got behind the D, Aaron was on the run, saw him and threw it. Bad thing is he was on the run and didn't put enough on the ball. It would have been a good play if he got it deep enough. But it was strictly an improved route that they just didn't connect on.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:41:09 PM(UTC)
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Looking at the play-by-play, it's obvious that Rodgers leads the Packers to a lead twice in the 4th quarter, including a drive that chewed 10:13 off the clock, and leaves his defense with a lead inside of 2:00. Yes, the interception was inexcusable, but the offense held the ball for over 12 minutes in the 4th quarter! Therefore, in my opinion, the defense and special teams units must bear primary responsibility for this loss.

At the same time, a good deal of the blame must be laid at Mike McCarthy's feet. Had he gone for the touchdown instead of settling for a field goal, he would have put his offense, which had dominated time of possession, in a tied position on the final drive, meaning that a field goal could have won it, instead of forcing his quarterback to play from behind.

Yes, Rodgers' INT sealed the defeat, but for heaven's sake, give him some credit.
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Offline go.pack.go.  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:49:38 PM(UTC)
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And in comes dhazer saying we put no blame on Rodgers for any losses...
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Offline CDNRodgersfan  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:58:29 PM(UTC)
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I have enough faith in Rodgers for this next year I don't feel any need to defend him. To me still it's about win or losses and I'm not big on giving brownie points for effort. The difference this next year is Rodgers will be the leader who finds away to end these close ones in a win no matter if he's got the whole team onm his back.
Online dhazer  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:04:41 PM(UTC)
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Sorry Non but im confused on this one. Are you saying he had a late 4th quarter comeback or are you showing he failed as he has all year in the final 5 minutes? I just don't get the meaning behind this one sorry.



as far as this
On the ensuing kickoff, M. Jones is pushed out of bounds at the CAR 45. (Special teams folds.) On the next play, Brandon Chillar and Charles Woodson are burned for a 54-yard pass to Steve Smith, who is downed at the GB 1. (Defense folds . . . again.)

Did you see the play it was a great catch by Smith not much you can do but give him the credit. If i remember correctly he was double covered. I'm looking for video proof.
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Offline Rios39  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:07:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Sorry Non but im confused on this one. Are you saying he had a late 4th quarter comeback or are you showing he failed as he has all year in the final 5 minutes? I just don't get the meaning behind this one sorry.


He's showing that the Defense let us down when we needed them the most.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:08:04 PM(UTC)
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He didn't fail. He left the field inside of 2:00 with a lead, having held the ball for over 11:00 in that quarter -- and having lead the team to a lead twice in that same quarter (both of which probably would have been TDs had McCarthy not suddenly got cold feet on the second drive). It was the defense and special teams, objectively and unarguably, who failed.

I'm not giving brownie points for effort. I'm pointing out no team should lose when their offense has held the ball for nearly 13 minutes in the final quarter and over 16 of the final 19 minutes.
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Offline longtimefan  
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:22:10 PM(UTC)
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4th quarter come back means in the 4th q he leads the team to take the lead or tie

that is what John Elway and Bretts stats are based on..

NOT 5 minutes left in the game


Soto say he has no 4th q comebacks is a blatant lie
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:29:40 PM(UTC)
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Good point, LT. That was the other thing Jim Sosha pointed out on his show: that "5-minute-comeback" stat is carefully designed to excise out all the good accomplishments Rodgers had in the 4th quarter this season (they scored more 4th-quarter points than any team in the league!). That stat doesn't fairly reflect the accomplishments of Favre or Elway.
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Online dhazer  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:30:11 PM(UTC)
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Ok long show me where he had a 4th quarter comeback for a win thats what they mean by 4th quarter comebacks sorry. So it is far from a blatant lie.


And sorry NON yes Rodgers did fail you even showed it, he threw an INT that sealed the game. And Long it wasn't a desperation throw it was plain and simply a shitty pass he didn't have to make. I just hope he shakes off the failures and learns from them or we are in for a long 5 years with him at qb.

Also if you are saying taking a lead in the 4th quarter is a comeback i would love to know how many Elway, Favre, and Montana had in there careers.
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Offline porky88  
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:04:28 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Score: 31-35 with 1:30 remaining.]

On the ensuing kickoff, Tramon Williams returns the ball to the GB 17. The following play, Rodgers throws an incomplete pass to Jennings. On the next pass, he throws an interception intended for Donald Driver. If you look at the replay, Driver looks completely confused, so there was obviously some sort of miscommunication. It's impossible to know who was at fault here. Either way, he was tightly covered, so it was a risky throw.


It was a poor throw and it was into coverage. Now I'm not saying it's his fault the Packers loss, but he had a chance to lead a comeback and the fact is he didn't.

The best argument for Rodgers is he lead them on a clutch drive against the Bears on Monday Night and the field goal was blocked with like 10 seconds left. That was his game winning drive, but this one was the defense and special teams blowing it to what you can argue a season high.

Once again ignoring the problem Aaron Rodgers has leading the team to a comeback would be a HUGE mistake. It can be fixed, but hopefully the coaches don't choose to ignore it like some fans are.

Overall his first season would earn him a B grade from me and that is great for a first year starter, but it shows he has to improve and the final five minutes of the fourth quarter is where he needs to start in my opinion.
Offline Stevetarded  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:05:49 PM(UTC)
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Thats what their comback stats are based off of, simply taking the lead in the 4th quarter.
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Offline blueleopard  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:16:03 PM(UTC)
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Those are not what comeback stats are composed of.

In the last 10 minutes of the 4th quarter alone, the lead CHANGED 3 TIMES. Rodgers was responsible for that.

So why should he get the blame when Carolina scores in like three plays? Steve Smith catches a 54-yard pass and it's Rodgers' fault? Okay.

He throws a pick. Fine. But I bet if you put Favre in the same situation, he'd throw three.
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Offline dfosterf  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:24:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


He throws a pick. Fine. But I bet if you put Favre in the same situation, he'd throw three.



I think there's a rule somewhere authorizing no more than one interception per play.




j/k
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Offline wils0646  
#16 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:44:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Ok long show me where he had a 4th quarter comeback for a win thats what they mean by 4th quarter comebacks sorry. So it is far from a blatant lie.


He's had 2 (both Detroit games). Sorry if you don't check the facts before showing your blind hate.

He won both of those games in the 4th quarter. They were either tied or losing in both going into the 4th.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#17 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:47:00 PM(UTC)
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Actually, the lead changed three times in the last 14 minutes; it only changed twice in the last 10 minutes. However, those numbers are deceiving, because in fact those two lead changes occurred within 27 seconds (1:57 and 1:30) of each other, after Rodgers had lead the team on a 10-minute drive. Anyone trying to pin this defeat on Rodgers is seriously grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Once again ignoring the problem Aaron Rodgers has leading the team to a comeback would be a HUGE mistake.


As I have said elsewhere, we wouldn't even be having this conversation had Favre not happened to come from behind and win his first game back in 1992. Other quarterbacks aren't held to this standard you are mentioning.

To answer your question, dhazer, I have posted this stat several times on these boards: In the last 8:00 of games, Favre himself only lead the team to come-from-behind-or-tie drives 22 times out of 90+ attempts in his 16 years in Green Bay -- a little more than once per year. Packers fans are the only group of fans making an issue out of this with their first-year starter.

A few months ago, someone posted a link to an audio clip of a radio show that gave the exact numbers, but I'm not finding it at the moment. Can the person who posted that link please resurrect it for us?
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Offline Rios39  
#18 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:23:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Actually, the lead changed three times in the last 14 minutes; it only changed twice in the last 10 minutes. However, those numbers are deceiving, because in fact those two lead changes occurred within 27 seconds (1:57 and 1:30) of each other, after Rodgers had lead the team on a 10-minute drive. Anyone trying to pin this defeat on Rodgers is seriously grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Once again ignoring the problem Aaron Rodgers has leading the team to a comeback would be a HUGE mistake.


As I have said elsewhere, we wouldn't even be having this conversation had Favre not happened to come from behind and win his first game back in 1992. Other quarterbacks aren't held to this standard you are mentioning.

To answer your question, dhazer, I have posted this stat several times on these boards: In the last 8:00 of games, Favre himself only lead the team to come-from-behind-or-tie drives 22 times out of 90+ attempts in his 16 years in Green Bay -- a little more than once per year. Packers fans are the only group of fans making an issue out of this with their first-year starter.

A few months ago, someone posted a link to an audio clip of a radio show that gave the exact numbers, but I'm not finding it at the moment. Can the person who posted that link please resurrect it for us?


That should put this argument to bed.
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Offline TheEngineer  
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:45:42 PM(UTC)
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People want to see Rodgers, leading the Packers down the field in the final 2 minutes of a game for a TD to steal the game. I don't think they care for much facts, like whether Rodgers technically has completed a 4th quarter comeback or not. They want to see Rodgers do it the way Favre's done it, because to many of the Packer fans, Favre's career is now the benchmark that any succeeding quarterback must surpass.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#20 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:06:41 PM(UTC)
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Honestly, I DON'T want to see Rodgers leading come-from-behind victories, because more often than not, when you have to come from behind, it means that you've screwed up.
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Online dhazer  
#21 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:38:17 PM(UTC)
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Ok now your saying in the final 8 minutes of a game Favre had whatever for comebacks but yet you are saying the full 4th quarter for Rodgers. I didn't say the loss to Carolina was all Rodgers fault what happened to you win as a team and you lose as a team. But way i am seeing some of the posters on here say if we lost its because of the defense or special teams so how is that fair?

And wils before you smart off why don't you check your facts the last game of the season we never trailed and i guess i could give you the 1st lions game if you claim a comeback when you win by 23 lol. But hey your the expert of everything so your right.
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Offline Rios39  
#22 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:47:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Ok now your saying in the final 8 minutes of a game Favre had whatever for comebacks but yet you are saying the full 4th quarter for Rodgers. I didn't say the loss to Carolina was all Rodgers fault what happened to you win as a team and you lose as a team. But way i am seeing some of the posters on here say if we lost its because of the defense or special teams so how is that fair?

And wils before you smart off why don't you check your facts the last game of the season we never trailed and i guess i could give you the 1st lions game if you claim a comeback when you win by 23 lol. But hey your the expert of everything so your right.


They were losing, they came back and took the lead. Can I make that any similar for ya?
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Offline beast  
#23 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:47:59 PM(UTC)
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Rodgers has been bad the last five minutes. He also has ruled the first fifty five minutes.

The defense has sucked late in games and were alright in other times.

Point is it's more on the defense than Rodgers that the Packers keep losing.
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Offline bozz_2006  
#24 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:48:19 PM(UTC)
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simpler.
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Online dhazer  
#25 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:56:40 PM(UTC)
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Ok i'm sorry guys Rodgers is god he makes no mistakes if we could have rodgers play all the positions we would be undefeated for sure. He is the best qb in the nfl by far noone is even close to him. I mean after al he led his team to 6 wins. We never had a qb of his greatness in Green Bay before so i was mistaken sorry guys. He is going to be the MVP of the league the next 18 years in a row. I see him passing for 7000 yards next year and about 150 tds with 0 interceptions. Damn this Rodgers kool-aid tastes great when you wear the Rodgers goggles, I think this is more potent then some good ole fashion moon shine. Well ok it atleast makes you think as stupid as drinking moon shine.
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