Green Bay Packers Forum

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline dfosterf  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 10:15:00 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

United States
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 228
Applause Received: 478
The dead pool.

I have repeatedly stated in several threads that some, if not all, salary cap pronouncements out there on the internet are inaccurate and incomplete. I have e-mailed the GBP Gazette newspaper requesting that they do an article on the cap, to no avail. I think they prefer reporting on what went wrong, but thats just me.

One of the (many) difficulties in discerning what the status of the cap might be has to do with the expiration of dead money commitments. This is the product of pro-rated-signing bonuses to players that are no longer with the team. I am going to list those former players that we paid in 2008. What I am looking for is a DEFINITIVE answer as to when a certain player falls out of the dead money pool. The ideal answer to this question will contain a link and/or a detailed explanation of how the answer was derived.

I will give an example as to just how complicated this question can become. Most already know that we have been, and continue to be, obligated to take a 1.4 million dollar cap hit in pro-rated signing bonus for Brett Favre, through 2010. What got lost in the whole trade deal is that the Jets renegotiated the contract. Andrew Brandt had put in some appearance clauses (Jets removed them), and a clause that Brett would have to pay back any pro-rata portion of his bonus (Jets removed that also). Frankly, I dont see how they can do that, but that is a whole other story.

http://www.nationalfootb...oney-different-contract/

Before I do the list, (it is extensive), I would appreciate any commentary/suggestion on where to find my answer(s)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:33:15 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 9/26/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 21
Applause Received: 834
I guess there are a couple scenerios for dead money. Players cut prior to June 1. These players have all of their SB accelerated to that current year. After June 1 the cap is split between the current and the next year.

Look at KGB. He had 1 year remaining on his contract. So in 09' GB will be charged about 1.4 million for him.

Now if say Jenkins was cut this year his cap penalty would be like this.

before June 1- GB would eat the remainder of his SB in 09' Or about 2.1 million.
released after June 1 - his remaining SB would be spread over 09' & 2010 at 1.05 million each year.
Offline dfosterf  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:53:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

United States
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 228
Applause Received: 478
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I guess there are a couple scenerios for dead money. Players cut prior to June 1. These players have all of their SB accelerated to that current year. After June 1 the cap is split between the current and the next year.

Look at KGB. He had 1 year remaining on his contract. So in 09' GB will be charged about 1.4 million for him.

Now if say Jenkins was cut this year his cap penalty would be like this.

before June 1- GB would eat the remainder of his SB in 09' Or about 2.1 million.
released after June 1 - his remaining SB would be spread over 09' & 2010 at 1.05 million each year.


This is the "year before" the "uncapped year". The "ability" to accelerate signing bonuses of players cut prior to June 1 is now gone, per the CBA. These issues were specifically negotiated in the CBA. Also, the ability to do so is HUGELY different than actually doing so. In other words, to assume that occurs is not correct, to the best of my knowledge.

We took an enormous cap hit on players most of us have forgotten even played for this team...
Offline Megatron  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:47:19 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 12/23/2008(UTC)
Here's a link to all the players salaries.

http://www.jsonline.com/...ts/packers/34427129.html

If look at the top, you see names like Harris, KGB, Tauscher and Clifton as one of the highest earning players at the club. One has gone, there is a good chance that at least 1 more of these guys will be gone too.

We would actually be increasing our salary cap!!! This will give us the flexibility to increase other players contracts like Jennings and even bring in a free agent.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:26:57 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 9/26/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 21
Applause Received: 834
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I guess there are a couple scenerios for dead money. Players cut prior to June 1. These players have all of their SB accelerated to that current year. After June 1 the cap is split between the current and the next year.

Look at KGB. He had 1 year remaining on his contract. So in 09' GB will be charged about 1.4 million for him.

Now if say Jenkins was cut this year his cap penalty would be like this.

before June 1- GB would eat the remainder of his SB in 09' Or about 2.1 million.
released after June 1 - his remaining SB would be spread over 09' & 2010 at 1.05 million each year.


This is the "year before" the "uncapped year". The "ability" to accelerate signing bonuses of players cut prior to June 1 is now gone, per the CBA. These issues were specifically negotiated in the CBA. Also, the ability to do so is HUGELY different than actually doing so. In other words, to assume that occurs is not correct, to the best of my knowledge.

We took an enormous cap hit on players most of us have forgotten even played for this team...


I was just using that as an example. Yeah everything will be different unless a new CBA is figured out soon. And since there is still not a replacement for Gene, I don't expect that soon.

That is also a nice thing since Thompson has been around. He structures contracts very well so there is no big penalty for cutting most players.
Offline dfosterf  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:11:52 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

United States
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 228
Applause Received: 478
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Here's a link to all the players salaries.

http://www.jsonline.com/...ts/packers/34427129.html

If look at the top, you see names like Harris, KGB, Tauscher and Clifton as one of the highest earning players at the club. One has gone, there is a good chance that at least 1 more of these guys will be gone too.

We would actually be increasing our salary cap!!! This will give us the flexibility to increase other players contracts like Jennings and even bring in a free agent.


That link was the starting point for the online "capologist" that gave the following figures for 2008.

The "List"

Dead Money 2008


Brett Favre 1,400,000. PRSB
Gbaja-Biamila 6,150,000 Base 1,571,429 PRSB 5,571 LTBE (probably included in carryover)
Bubba Franks 2,000,000 PRSB
Marquand Manuel 900,000 PRSB
Tracy White 705,000 Base 125,000 PRSB (base is definitely gone) 30,000 LTBE
Robert Ferguson 700,000 PRSB
Abdul Hodge 202,000 PRSB
David Clowney 127,500 PRSB
Marviel Underwood 107,500 PRSB
Ingle Martin 86,0000 PRSB
Clark Harris 30,656 PRSB
Tyrone Culver 23,375 PRSB
Jon Ryan 11,667 PRSB 5,000 LTBE
Joey Haynos 250 PRSB 15,600 LTBE
Brett Swain 14,403 PRSB (Complicated, hes on the Reserve/future squad now)
DeShawn Wynn 12,727 PRSB
Daniel Muir 7,500 PRSB
Ryan Powdrell 7,500 PRSB
Tony Palmer 6,720 LTBE
Chris Patrick 6,720 LTBE
Cliff Washburn 6,720 LTBE
Jerry Babb 6,720 LTBE
Ryan Dougherty 6,720 LTBE
Noah Herron 6,720 LTBE
Alfred Malone 6,720 LTBE
Chris Francies 6,720 LTBE
Spencer Havner 6,720 LTBE
Joe Porter 6,720 LTBE
Johnny Quinn 6,720 LTBE
Corey White 6,720 LTBE
Mike Peterson 6,000 PRSB
Pat Murray 4,000 PRSB
Larry Birdine 3,750 PRSB
Danny Lansanah 2,500 PRSB
Jake Allen 1,500 PRSB
Taj Smith 1,500 PRSB
Juwan Simpson 1,250 PRSB
Rory Johnson 1,250 PRSB
Jerry Babb 1,000 PRSB
Paul Thompson 1,000 PRSB
Brennan Carvalho 750 PRSB
Rod Harper 750 PRSB
Marcus Riley 750 PRSB
Cory White 250 PRSB
Ryan Considine 333 PRSB

Some terribly interesting cap hits:
Rudolph Hardie 10,400 Base
Junius Coston 242,083 Base 43,200 PRSB 5,280 LTBE
Cullen Jenkins 2,000,000 Base 1,000,000 PRSB 450,000 LTBE (Carry over)
Kregg Lumpkin 295,000 Base 2,000 PRSB
JJ Jansen 1,250 PRSB 200,000 LTBE
Rodney Allen 200,000 LTBE
Evan Moore 200,000 LTBE
Shaun Bodiford 235,880 LTBE

...And Megatron, what you said about the big "cap hit" guys that may be gone is dead on. This is one of the reasons I asked the GBPG to do some reporting on the issue. It amazes me that this is so important to the fans, yet gets so poorly reported by the mainstream media. I suspect there are several reasons for it...team/media relations, etc. I also feel like they just don't want to:

A Do the work
B Get it wrong
Offline Since69  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:41:27 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 11/2/2006(UTC)
Applause Given: 83
Applause Received: 83
" said: Go to Quoted Post
That is also a nice thing since Thompson has been around. He structures contracts very well so there is no big penalty for cutting most players.


That's a side-effect of him being so "cheap". When a team isn't in cap hell they can front-load a contract, rather than putting most of the pay off until later.

That's where most of your dead money comes from.
Offline LambeauEast  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:08:17 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 10/19/2007(UTC)
Applause Given: 5
Applause Received: 20
Silly me, I thought this was a true "dead pool". I'll take Larry King.
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (13h): I have a habit of hitting tab then space bar lol
Pack93z (13h): .... and yes, that was a retyped message cause the user hit the enter key.. lol
Pack93z (13h): It really isn't that big of a deal, more of a user problem that can't remember to stop and click in place of hitting a key... and yes, this
Zero2Cool (13h): And it also won't do a full page refresh either.
Zero2Cool (13h): I have to toss in an UpdatePanel and dedicate Enter to it for submission, then it will work.
Zero2Cool (13h): nerdmann went bonkers with creating topics so we had to slow him down a tad lol
Pack93z (13h): If I gotta field questions all week from this user base at work... going to share the "love".
Pack93z (13h): There... that should miff Zero for a couple of seconds... ;)
Pack93z (13h): Also.. when posting in the fan shout... why can't I hit the enter key to post a message?
Pack93z (13h): What is this 5 minute wait cycle to create articles from the headlines... can't I spam them like hotcakes?
Mucky Tundra (27-Jul): haha
Zero2Cool (27-Jul): Crap, another meeting! Ugh!
Zero2Cool (27-Jul): Check in already! We waiting on YOU!!!
Pack93z (27-Jul): YES :)
Pack93z (27-Jul): --- KEVIN ----
Mucky Tundra (27-Jul): of the Dead?
Zero2Cool (27-Jul): --- SHAWN ---
Cheesey (25-Jul): Me neither. He did virtually nothing after he left the Packers.
Zero2Cool (25-Jul): WR Greg Jennings retires. I think I should be surprised, but I'm not.
Cheesey (23-Jul): It's sad, he was young.
wpr (22-Jul): Sorry to hear about Dennis passing away.
Zero2Cool (22-Jul): Hopefully people respect his passing without trying to make jokes.
Zero2Cool (22-Jul): Damn, Dennis Green passed away.
Zero2Cool (22-Jul): Bahahahah
Smokey (16-Jul): Playing 2016 Fantasy Football ? NO ? Contact me to join the Tailgaters Fantasy Football League !
wpr (15-Jul): Happy birthday since69
Zero2Cool (15-Jul): Whoa!Today's Birthdays: Since69 (51)
Zero2Cool (15-Jul): No sir. But at work we had our A/C go out, not fun lol
Smokey (14-Jul): Did recent bad weather affect you Zero ? ie: loss of electricity ?
Zero2Cool (14-Jul): stay cool bud ... thats some hot crap there
Smokey (14-Jul): Heat Index 104* : Richmond , VA.
Zero2Cool (14-Jul): Richard Rodgers and Aaron Rodgers win ESPY for play of year!! Wohooo
Smokey (14-Jul): A.Rodgers wins ESPY for Hail Mary Play .
Smokey (14-Jul): The ESPY's are ON !
Cheesey (13-Jul): Yeah...stinky cheese, for sure!
Please sign in to use Fan Shout

Road To Super Bowl LI
Sunday, Sep 11 @ 12:00 PM
at Jaguars
Sunday, Sep 18 @ 7:30 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Sep 25 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Oct 2 @ 12:00 AM
BYE
Sunday, Oct 9 @ 7:30 PM
GIANTS
Sunday, Oct 16 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Thursday, Oct 20 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 30 @ 12:00 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Nov 6 @ 3:25 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Nov 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Titans
Sunday, Nov 20 @ 7:30 PM
at Redskins
Monday, Nov 28 @ 7:30 PM
at Eagles
Sunday, Dec 4 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Dec 11 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Dec 18 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Saturday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Jan 1 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions

Think About It
Think About It

Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / musccy

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DakotaT

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

13h / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / steveishere

27-Jul / Around The NFL / beast

27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / musccy


Packers Headlines