Zero2Cool
14 years ago

I really hate to do this but i will 😛, back in '07 the Packers line wasn't that great and probably would have given up alot of sacks but look at the play calls. Lord Favre alot of times had the ball out of his hands in less than 3 secs on the quick slants and curls. For some reason this year we have the wrs running 20 yard routes and i think that is partially from the preseason when those things worked and so they think it will always work. Rodgers is still learning and he will learn to check out of plays and go back to the quick slants and curls i believe. I think Lord Favre called alot of audibles back then to save his ass. Rodgers will get comfy going against Mike McCarthy's play calling and will improve (hopefully)

"dhazer" wrote:



We get it, a guy who's played in 250 more games is better at short passes than a guy who's played in a couple dozen, WE GET IT! lol :)

The line in '07 was better than it is today, easily. No one can dispute that. Even with that said, I'm not trying to discredit the Favre factor, he played a large role in those plays. He's the slant god, no question. He was also extremely intelligent in sniffing out a blitz an the hot read. It's called experience and we lack it at the QB position.

All in all, the quote post is true and I don't disagree with the comment on the pre season bit either. Although if true, my gosh, we're in a world of hurt if our coaching staff thinks because it worked in pre season when no one is game planning to stop us, that hey it worked there, it'll work in the season. We have BIG PROBLEMS.
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mi_keys
14 years ago

I really hate to do this but i will 😛, back in '07 the Packers line wasn't that great and probably would have given up alot of sacks but look at the play calls. Lord Favre alot of times had the ball out of his hands in less than 3 secs on the quick slants and curls. For some reason this year we have the wrs running 20 yard routes and i think that is partially from the preseason when those things worked and so they think it will always work. Rodgers is still learning and he will learn to check out of plays and go back to the quick slants and curls i believe. I think Lord Favre called alot of audibles back then to save his ass. Rodgers will get comfy going against Mike McCarthy's play calling and will improve (hopefully)

"dhazer" wrote:



This, I think, has a lot of truth to it. Favre was a 17 year veteran at the time and was in his 16th season starting. At the same time though, we were also able to go deep quite a few times that year. Some of that might have had to do with a more balanced attack or maybe even the quick slants and throws keeping the defense on its heels a bit. The line played better though. The line played better last year with Rodgers. Rodgers has a lot to learn and hopefully he'll continue to learn all the intricacies of the QB position but right now he barely even has time to run a slant.


To porky, no I didn't time when the pocket collapsed on those plays, which in some cases was even quicker. Actually, that first sack with the fumble I timed the collapse at 1.9 seconds and that was 1.9 seconds for BOTH defensive ends to break through.
Born and bred a cheesehead
warhawk
14 years ago
I have a trivia question for you guys and I have no idea what the answer is so if someone can find it there's a beer on me.

Has ANY QB EVER thrown for 385 yards in a game when he was sacked EIGHT times?
"The train is leaving the station."
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
On November 20, 2005, Jake Delhomme was sacked 8 times and passed for 235 yards.

On December 14, 2008, Eli Manning was sacked 8 times and passed for 191 yards.

On September 11, 2006, Aaron Brooks was sacked 7 times and passed for 68 yards.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

I have a trivia question for you guys and I have no idea what the answer is so if someone can find it there's a beer on me.

Has ANY QB EVER thrown for 385 yards in a game when he was sacked EIGHT times?

"warhawk" wrote:



I doubt it's ever happened. Now if you would have asked has a QB ever been sacked 8 eights and threw for 384 yards, I'd say I know one, Rodgers.

;)
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Rockmolder
14 years ago

On December 14, 2008, Eli Manning was sacked 8 times and passed for 191 yards.



The man has had an amazing O-line for most of his career, especially recently, has a great running game to keep the defense honest and he still manages to get sacked 8 times.

Given, Dallas was really getting after him, but still.

I'm still no Eli fan. Although he has been impressive this year.
RedSoxExcel
14 years ago
I get it, the O-line sucks. But I my whole issue has to do more with Rodgers progression as an NFL player.

My problem is simply that he holds on to the ball too much just like he did in game #1 as opposed to game #20. The O-line is terrible, there is no debating that but IMO Rodgers is blame a lot more than 15%. I think a lot of sacks are 50/50. Even when Favre was giving them up left and right in the first 3 games, I said the same thing.

1) As a QB, its your job to read blitzes, if your giving up a lot of sacks where you have no time to react, then you probably failed to read the defence properly and get it out with a quick slant, etc. - That may have to do with coaching though and their instructions to him/latitude to call plays. That will come with time but you cannot expect the O-line/RB to pick up every single blitz, it doesn't happen.

2) You have to sometimes just plain get rid of the ball. For example, that safety. I do not understand how that is even remotely the O-line's fault. Your at the half yard line. You konw you have a couple of seconds MAX to get rid of it. That is on Rodgers. And I hate when he thinks hes faster than he is. Yes he's mobile but he is not Michael Vick. You think your going to outrun Jarden Allen out of the endzone, your not. Play within yourself. Even on last year's safety too, Jarden Allen just plain ran him down.

3) You have to take risks sometimes. I get it, he doesn't get a lot of INTs but I think sometimes you have to take risks. He seems to not want to pull the trigger if its close. But I think you can play like that if you have the Ravens defence of 2008 or whatever. Just like I said last year, our defence is not an elite defense, so take the risks.

Overall, I like Rodgers progression. But this part of his game gets me antsy. He's a statistical giant but a lot of times he gets these 70 yard, 1 minute drives down by two touchdowns. I hate when people just look at stats and scream "whatever look at his stats". Its not all about stats otherwise Warren Moon and Dan Marino would be the two greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. But their not, its about something else, winning. Either your a winner or your not.

Do I think the true "legends" just happen to have the best teams every year, i.e. Manning, Favre, Brady. No. For example, Jets. This was the Mangenius Jets, not the Rex Ryan Jets and they went from 4-12 to 9-7 (including 8-3 at one point) with Favre. And the Packers went from 13-3 to 6-10. Maybe its all just concidence that happens or that the Colts are good EVERY single year, who knows.

But IMO, the most important position in football is exactly that, the most important position. Tahts why I think Rodgers has a lot more control over sacks than just a passive bystander. The O-line sucks but at least show some kind of sign of progression is all I'm asking for. But this excuse that its all the O-line will only hurt his progression in the long run IMO.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
On December 30, 1992 rookie quarterback David Klingler was sacked 10 times, passed for 140 yards and (incredibly, in my opinion) no interceptions
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Rockmolder
14 years ago
You know what the funny part is? They're not blitzing. They're bringing 4 people and Rodgers goes down in 1.5 seconds. Just look around some other threads. There have been some pretty accurate timings on how long it took Rodgers to get sacked. Allen got in there between 1 and 2.5 seconds on nearly all of his sacks.

We tried some max protection, but that resulted in coverage sacks. Our receivers are great, but even they can't find seams in their zone defense when it's 3 receivers against 7 guys in coverage.

You have a fair point on the safety, but if Allen gets behind you in 1 second and you try to wind up and throw it away, you're in much more trouble. There where 4 possibile scenarios in that one.

1. He throws it away and gets flagged with intentional grounding.
2. He throws it away and Jared Allen easily gets his hand on Rodgers arm. Either a safety or a TD.
3. He miracously gets it in the area of a receiver (in coverage), doesn't get picked and Allen misses his hand/arm.
4. He takes the safety.

I'm not saying that it was the best play to make and maybe he should've thrown it towards a RB after 1.2 seconds, but I really don't think you can blame him a whole lot on that safety.

I don't know how you can even come with that argument about the Colts, Favre and Rodgers.

The Colts defense hasn't been amazing apart from that year of their SB run, but they haven't been as bas as ours was last year either. Manning is a better QB at this point, no doubt about it, but do you truly believe that Favre would have us doing better at this point?
RedSoxExcel
14 years ago

You know what the funny part is? They're not blitzing. They're bringing 4 people and Rodgers goes down in 1.5 seconds. Just look around some other threads. There have been some pretty accurate timings on how long it took Rodgers to get sacked. Allen got in there between 1 and 2.5 seconds on nearly all of his sacks.

We tried some max protection, but that resulted in coverage sacks. Our receivers are great, but even they can't find seams in their zone defense when it's 3 receivers against 7 guys in coverage.

You have a fair point on the safety, but if Allen gets behind you in 1 second and you try to wind up and throw it away, you're in much more trouble. There where 4 possibile scenarios in that one.

1. He throws it away and gets flagged with intentional grounding.
2. He throws it away and Jared Allen easily gets his hand on Rodgers arm. Either a safety or a TD.
3. He miracously gets it in the area of a receiver (in coverage), doesn't get picked and Allen misses his hand/arm.
4. He takes the safety.

I'm not saying that it was the best play to make and maybe he should've thrown it towards a RB after 1.2 seconds, but I really don't think you can blame him a whole lot on that safety.

I don't know how you can even come with that argument about the Colts, Favre and Rodgers.

The Colts defense hasn't been amazing apart from that year of their SB run, but they haven't been as bas as ours was last year either. Manning is a better QB at this point, no doubt about it, but do you truly believe that Favre would have us doing better at this point?

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Nope not saying that all. Favre is 40 years old. I would hope and assume that a QB in their 20's that is the franchise gives us a better chance to win at this point. All I'm saying is that the QB is a very important position. And I don't think its a concidence that Brady, Manning and Favre win every year (one losing season, 13-7 since he left the Packers). Stats are not all that matters or else Warren Moon is the greatest of all time. I just am not that impressed with stats when you do not win, but thats just me. Because maybe hte reason you got 150 yards in the last 5 minutes is because the other team was in prevent because the game was pretty much out of hand based on your other 3 quarters of play.

On the safety, I don't agree with your assessment, I guess I saw the play different. He was in shotgun first, had no initial rush directly at him, then he moved forward, pump faked and then got sacked? There is NO way you have the luxury of a pump fake in the end zone like that.

I just watched again as I have it PVR'd. We actually double teamed Allen. Ryan Grant and the OL blocked him. I wish I knew how to take a picture of the still screen. But there is one point at 7:23 frame that Rodgers has no one near him. He steps up, then pump fakes, then Allen gets free and hits him. The funny thing is if he didn't pump fake and just ran right away, he probably could have just the first down. Or if he stayed where he was, no one was going to get near him, it wasn't until he moved up that Allen had any shot at him.

You can actually see at around the pump fake that he has #86 at the 3-4 yard line with his hands up in the air.

Of course all this is just Monday Morning QB in me. As he obviously cannot see all that. But I want someone else to watch the play and talk about what else the O-line could have done there. I just think something is wrong with the timer in his head. Your in the endzone, you have three-four seconds if you stay still, you have less than if your going to run around. The area to work with is 10 yards, its just logic that its harder for the O-line to help you if you rund around in that short of an area.
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