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Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 11:57:37 AM(UTC)
First, the site is not going anywhere.

For a few weeks I've considered shutting it down primarily because of the way certain discussions have gone and how a few members consistently do nothing but drag everyone down. Maybe not everyone, maybe just me?

I don't mind constructive criticism from anyone towards anything. I actually like it because I'm always wanting to improve and with proper criticism comes potential for just that, improvement. The manner in which some deliver there message has wore on me heavily.

With the stepping down of dfosterf and pack93z, I've decided that the remaining two moderators should as well. Nonstopdrivel and porky88 are no longer moderators. Some of you will say it's because I'm a dictator and it's easier to dictate this way. Those who know me and others who are directly involved know the true reasons for this. They have done a great job and I couldn't have asked for a better staff than what was had. Each provided something that I needed. When one leg disappeared, the table was able to stand. When the second leg disappeared, well no table can stand on two legs. I'm the table and they were each a leg.

There's absolutely no reason for those to take on the burden of my mistakes as a site owner. It's not fair to them and it's not right of me to allow that to continue. My failure to communicate properly throughout the staff is a major reason for this sudden change. I have no patience. I think of something, I want to see it in action. That's not right as a leader. I'd put something into action, then ask opinions. Shoot first, ask questions later.


When I started PH, it was nothing but a hobby and place to talk to a few friends and host my highlight videos. I hadn't made website in sometime and I wanted to try my hand at it again. In the last year, much thanks to PF's failure (personal opinion) and our weekly Sunday special feature, it's grown into something far more than I ever imagined or desired it to be. I did not intend on having nearly two thousand people register here, hence, why I keep deleting hundreds at a time to narrow it down. One reason for that is people who come here will see a low registered number and go somewhere else. Those who stay because of the small number, chances are they want to be part of a smaller community and usually those are the people I think make a site better. Those who want to be part of something that has 3k members, it's usually because they just want to have their voice heard by as many as possible.

I've preferred a quality over quantity approach. Another reason why you don't see me advertising PH all over the interwebz.

My goal, my vision so to speak is to offer a place for Packers fans to discuss the Packers without worrying about there comments being edited, deleted or being banned for simply having a different view. I don't like suspending/banning members. Maybe I'm weak because of this, but I always think, next time they'll do better, next time they won't be so bitterly blind, next time. Routinely I'm wrong and I hate being wrong. I'm stubborn.


Like many of you here. I have a family. Two daughters and another one that I've essentially adopted as my own for the last eight plus years. I have two jobs. And a lot of personal issues that I'm trying to handle alone. I admit I'm not handling them the best. And sometimes that's coming through on my comments here. Which is why I'm going to TRY to be less vocal around the site.

The main features of PH that you've come to expect and admire, I'll do what I can to keep them going. I just don't know if I can contribute on the same level as I have been for the last few months. I need to take care of some other things first.


I know this was more than any of you cared to know or hear, but thanks for reading and thank you for your time here. Just understand my absence if noticed is not a sign that the site is going away. It's just me doing what I need to do.


Edit, one of the important things I wanted to say, I completely failed on saying. If you have an issue with anything on this website, it goes to me. I'm the only one to take the fall. NO one else. Don't gripe to any of the previous staff members, send it to me.
bozz_2006  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 12:16:59 PM(UTC)
Take care of your business and family first. Sorry to hear that things have been heavy lately, and sorry to hear about staff difficulties. I think things would be less tense if we were undefeated, or at least have swept the Vikes. But, that's not the way it is. Thanks for sharing and being transparent in your comments. I hope things work out the way you want them to.
Rockmolder  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:19:36 PM(UTC)
This sucks. First Vikesrule leaves, then Pack93 starts posting less and now you. Keeping everyone together never works. Especially not on the internet.

Alas, you have more important thigns to attend to. And I can understand that. I hope that life will threat you will and you will succeed in whatever you're taking the free time for. I, for one, can say that I'll miss your frequent input. Same goes for Shawn, btw.

A shame that everything turned out the way it did with your staff, as well. Felt that you had a very good group of guys runnings the show here.
Cheesey  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:46:31 PM(UTC)
If it's just a few people dragging the site down, why don't you remove the ones doing so? It IS after all YOUR site, and you have the right to remove whoever you feels is lowering it's standards.
Why even think of shutting down an entire site, where the majority of users are greatful and appreciative for a few that just seem to want to rip it down?
JMO of course.
DGB454  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 7:46:36 PM(UTC)
Do what you have to do. Family always comes first.
4PackGirl  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 8:53:41 PM(UTC)
there are people everywhere who for whatever reason, will try to knock you on your ass whenever they have the chance. don't let them win, kev.
Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 9:44:58 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
If it's just a few people dragging the site down, why don't you remove the ones doing so? It IS after all YOUR site, and you have the right to remove whoever you feels is lowering it's standards.
Why even think of shutting down an entire site, where the majority of users are greatful and appreciative for a few that just seem to want to rip it down?
JMO of course.



That's not the motivating factor into why I was considering removing the site from the public eye. It's one of the smaller ones.

Why it wore on me as much as it did was because I felt they were better than they display on a routine basis. Also, because no one knows the work behind the scenes or how much needs to be done to make things appear 'smooth' at times.

The majority of the members, plus some things nonstopdrivel and pack93z and porky and zombie have said to me made me think more seriously about my pending decision.

I've come to think that it's not fair to all of you to remove the site just because I have stretched myself too thin. I'm going to see if I can be more idle and just focus on a few aspects of the site instead of trying to always find more things and better things.
Rockmolder  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 9:47:51 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
If it's just a few people dragging the site down, why don't you remove the ones doing so? It IS after all YOUR site, and you have the right to remove whoever you feels is lowering it's standards.
Why even think of shutting down an entire site, where the majority of users are greatful and appreciative for a few that just seem to want to rip it down?
JMO of course.



That's not the motivating factor into why I was considering removing the site from the public eye. It's one of the smaller ones.

Why it wore on me as much as it did was because I felt they were better than they display on a routine basis. Also, because no one knows the work behind the scenes or how much needs to be done to make things appear 'smooth' at times.

The majority of the members, plus some things nonstopdrivel and pack93z and porky and zombie have said to me made me think more seriously about my pending decision.

I've come to think that it's not fair to all of you to remove the site just because I have stretched myself too thin. I'm going to see if I can be more idle and just focus on a few aspects of the site instead of trying to always find more things and better things.


And you should feel free to. I mean, you told us this began as a hobby. Keep it that way. Just work on it if you have some spare time. Leave it alone when you don't. Work and family, like said before, are more important.

That said... I don't want to be a know-it-all, but will the forums plummit into anarchy now? I mean, with you needing more private time and not having any mods, anymore...
Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 4, 2009 9:51:37 PM(UTC)
I wouldn't worry about that at all.

UserPostedImage

Feel free to report any post if NECESSARY and I do check in on the site routinely while I'm at work. So if I see something reported. I will tend to it.
Formo  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 12:00:41 AM(UTC)
Sometimes all it takes is to try to be in control too much of the time, or in control of too much at a time. It makes it very easy to wear thin.

One of the other forums I've been registered to for over 6 years has one single owner, and he's the only mod. He used to have 2 other mods, but since has widdled it down to just him. He ran the tightest ship when it came to forum posts.. He had a set of strict rules, and he enforced them to the T. Because he did, he had a big group of regulars, and a small group of 'casuals'. Because of his rules, the regulars would often help rally around the casuals if any issues popped up. Because of the way that forum was ran, I learned how to conduct myself properly (if you think I'm bad now.. You should have seen me 6 years ago!) on a forum.

I mention that forum because this place isn't that far off. You had a small group of mods, and you. You had creative control over the forum/site. Both of those are very similar to the forum I mentioned last paragraph. I think all you need to do is set in stone a handful of strict personal conduct rules (the guy above called them the 'Easy Ways', as in, the Easy Ways to get whacked with the ban stick) and enforce them. Make them published.. and maybe make all new forum members go through those rules before they are able to see any other forum/thread. PP.O has a 'Hell', as well. That would be another suggestion as a suitable warning. If anything, take a break and maybe take more of a behind the scene's approach and deal with any 'reported' posts and such.

Anyway, I don't know if any of that helps, or brings things into perspective.. I hope it does, but regardless, I enjoy coming here (visit as much as PP.O and more often then every other forum I've been registered to for years), and I know it would be a shame to see it run down/disappear. I know you said you weren't doing that, but still, it needs to be said.
Zero2Cool  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 12:34:56 AM(UTC)
I had hoped rules wouldn't be needed. I had hoped that, like I said in the Posting Etiquette thread that members would work together to weed out the the unpleasant comments with intelligent rebuttals. The thing is, it's just not worth others time to do so. Because of how stubborn, pigheaded and defiant those comments are ... it's more than daunting to attempt to improve the discussion.
wpr  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 2:36:55 AM(UTC)
Zero I am sorry to hear this is adding to your stress. That isn't right.
Take care of yourself and your family first.
If there is time then work with this site.
If you need some kind of help let me know. I would be glad to do whatever I can.
ILikeThePackers39  
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 3:42:04 PM(UTC)
You've certainly got my respect. I've spent most of my time on guitar forums, and much like this place there are folks who feel just fine using the relative anonymity of the internet to act, well, awful - rude, confrontational, etc. It got to a point w/ the site I visited most that one of the members broke off, created his own forum, invited the folks he liked and felt added positively to the conversation, and then closed the place up - it's a private forum, and it takes a majority vote to get anyone new invited.

Obviously, there are all sorts of reasons not to do that with a place like this - I guess what I'm trying to say is that I admire your willingness to go through the hassle of keeping an open board like this going. I know I'd never have the patience. So thanks.
Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 3:48:01 PM(UTC)
Interesting idea, invite only. That would definitely improve this place. I was in the thought process of limiting new memberships to be approved via admin instead of just any willy nilly valid email account. My purpose behind that was to limit the amount of spammers.
wpr  
#15 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 3:55:32 PM(UTC)
Zero,

Just in case you decide to invite only current members, here's some flowers for you big guy.

UserPostedImage



[size=18]You look mahvelous today.[/size] :magnifyglass:
Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 4:03:32 PM(UTC)
lol

I wouldn't wipe the slate clean and start from scratch.


It would be from this point forward, invite only, type of thing.
longtimefan  
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 4:10:41 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Zero,

Just in case you decide to invite only current members, here's some flowers for you big guy.

UserPostedImage



[size=18]You look mahvelous today.[/size] :magnifyglass:


hes allergic
bozz_2006  
#18 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 4:12:33 PM(UTC)
but I can still spam, right?
ILikeThePackers39  
#19 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 4:55:28 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Interesting idea, invite only. That would definitely improve this place. I was in the thought process of limiting new memberships to be approved via admin instead of just any willy nilly valid email account. My purpose behind that was to limit the amount of spammers.



The downsides are that you risk losing the debate from all sides piece - not to say that everyone on the guitar forum I mentioned agrees all the time, but since everyone knows everyone else so well, we'll tend to not push obvious buttons, etc. It definitely makes for a more civil atmosphere, but some people are rightfully interested in serving all sides and might see it as detrimental to that. The other downside is that it can get a bit quiet from time to time.

The guy who runs it LOVES it, though - no trolls, much less worry about having to baby-sit, etc. He's not interested in running a website at this point, so it works well for him. We have no mods, and no need for them - we self-police.
wpr  
#20 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 4:59:06 PM(UTC)
+1 LTF.

But that is why I gave him a picture only.
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