WhiskeySam
14 years ago

Here didn't grab the arm every time.. but a defender going looking back for the ball can have a hand upon the receiver.. not pass interference.

Some were no doubters. Some were boardline tacky.. but the called the game consistently (minus one blatant missed on on Williams).. so we should have made the adjustment.

"pack93z" wrote:



I agree with you on the offensive players. They get away with murder and rarely get called for it. I was afraid for a moment they were going to call PI on Woodson on the play Mason pushed him because that's how the NFL tends to call those plays. I still contend the PI penalties were both teams' fault. It was obvious what they were calling all night, and neither team seemed to care or adjust.
Nemo me impune lacessit
warhawk
14 years ago

The worst part about defensive pass interference is the spot of the foul. It's the only infraction that can mean a forty or fifty yard change in field position.

I don't mind them calling it tight (so long as they're consistent), but i dont understand why it has to be a 50 yard penalty.

"pack93z" wrote:



A couple of years ago I thought I read where they were discussing the possibility of it being a static yardage penalty and loss of down.. that would even it out some more.

"Wade" wrote:



I was watching NFL Network last week and they had the head honcho of officiating on and he was talking about this. What they are contemplating is giving pass interference a 15 yard penalty UNLESS the defender is just beat and grabs or tackles the guy which would be a spot of foul call.

I thought the calls were too tight. I have a problem with PI calls because way to often the receiver initiates the contact by extending their arm which is very rarely called against the offense unless it is so severe it knocks the defender off the coverage.

For me, if the offensive guy is allowed to extend his arm and makes contact and the defender reacts by putting their arms out as well it should be a no call. The problem I have with this, having played DB, is when your running stride for stride with a receiver and they stick their arm out your arms ARE coming up. It's instinct. For one thing if the receiver sticks his arm out there and is pushing back you are going to use your arm to get him off you. NORMALLY, in these games when two guys are going down field and this is going on it's not called and the one in the corner of the endzone would not have been PI IMO had they not been throwing the flag every time the ball was thrown downfield.

Tramon will be fine. He needs to knock off the arm grab but the guy is right there in such tight coverage there is contact both ways. You certainly can't knock his ability to cover. He's stride for stride nearly every time.
"The train is leaving the station."
Greg C.
14 years ago

Yet we never do. (Make the adjustment.)

That might be unfair to say, but that is how it seems.

I readily admit it would be hard to show evidence of something that does not happen...

It is just that we have ample evidence that we continue with our "style" of defending, damn the consequences.

"dfosterf" wrote:



If the consequences include limiting the other team to only 14 points in spite of numerous miscues by the offense and special teams, I am willing to accept them.

On a different note: I've never agreed with the "Let 'em play" argument. You have to draw the line somewhere or the receivers will get mugged on every play and the game will be boring to watch and will not reward the most talented players.

No matter where you choose to draw the line, players are going to walk the edge to try and get an advantage. Last night we saw a lot of players stepping over that line--not by much, but they did it. Tramon Williams played like crap, and he very well may be a target for the refs now. The only way to avoid that is to play clean, like he usually does.
blank
14 years ago

In my opinion, if teams turn to just chucking the ball downfield hoping for a 45 yard penalty, then that is the refs' fault for turning the game into that kind of a joke. They have to manage the game better, simple as that. Kudos to the Packers for not taking as much advantage of it as the Ravens did. You could see Baltimore just decide at one point that when they needed yards, they were going to fling the ball on a high arcing bomb and wait for the yellow laundry. I thought 2 calls against Baltimore were garbage and I thought the two against Williams in the endzone were garbage.

My main issue with it is this. If you call DPI too tightly, you start punishing players for good aggressive play.

"WhiskeySam" wrote:



If Tramon goes for the ball on those defenses and doesn't grab the receiver's arm every time, he doesn't get flagged. Grabbing the arm is going to draw the flag every single time, and it should. How can you blame the officials when the defenders knowing the game is being called that way keep doing it? Both teams' DBs have to take some responsibility here.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



I'm not complaining about the arm grab calls (and one no call). The first TD break-up DPI call was based on no grabbing, just his hands slapping the guy's chest lightly and then jumping higher than him to break up the pass. IMO that's a good aggressive play. The second one, the WR tugged Tramon's shoulder pads before Tramon made any contact, and then they were just fighting - and not very hard either - to maintain the position they had.

I disagreed with at least two calls against Baltimore too.

I think part of it was also a field issue. We saw a lot of people slipping around last night, and that lack of traction gives a huge advantage to the WRs.
UserPostedImage
mi_keys
14 years ago

Wow, I am absolutely shocked at how many people think that all of those were pass interference. I do remember one clear one on Williams that was missed. However, that sort of jostling happens on just about every long ball. The two called on Williams in the end zone should not have been called as well as at least two called on Ravens defenders. The first time Williams was called in the end zone he never impeded the receivers run, never slowed him down, and played the ball when it came in getting a piece of it. The second time he was called in the end zone both the receiver and Williams were jockying for position, so if you're going to be nit picky it's interference on both. I also thought the offensive pass interference called on Mason was harsh.

"Greg C." wrote:



You neglected to mention that in addition to jostling and jockeying for position, Williams very deliberately stuck his arm in front of the receiver's arm, well before the ball arrived, in order to prevent the receiver from reaching up for the ball with both hands. If that was legal, DB's would do it at every opportunity.

The offensive pass interference on Mason was about as obvious as they come, in my opinion. When two players are running at high speed and the ball is thrown behind them, it does not take much for one of them to push the other one out of position. You could see Mason extend his arm when he pushed Woodson. Easy call for the officials.

"mi_keys" wrote:



I'm not entirely sure which pass interference you're talking about but it sounds like the second one. I'll give my opinion on both regardless:

The first:

Williams only contacts the receiver with his right arm before he swats the ball. He does get his arms in on the receivers arms and touches them. However, he does not hold them down. He lifts his arm up, swings towards the ball and makes contact. You can see that the receiver was able to fully extend his arms to go for the ball but Tramon deflected it.

The second:

The receiver tries to push off with his right arm, Tramon grabs it and they jostle for it. Tramon lets go as the ball approaches and swings for the ball, missing. The receiver misses the ball entirely too. If anything, they should both be called.

The Mason call:

Derrick Mason barely touched Woodson. If you go back and watch it in slow motion you can see he had very little influence on Woodson. Furthermore, receivers consistently get away with blatant pushoffs to create separation all the time. That almost never gets called.



To Whiskey,

I'm one of those guys calling for them to let them play and I've said a couple times now the Ravens had a couple calls on them that should not have been given. You are dead on about the coaches and players not making an adjustment to the way the refs were calling the game. However, the arm bar was not used in every single one of those pass interferences. Tramon did not arm bar in either of the two cases I talked about above nor did the Ravens defenders on one or two of the ones called on them. In fact, the worst calls of the night, the way I remember it, where probably one of the calls on the Ravens defenders for pass interference.




To Dfosterf,

The Ahmad Carroll analogy is premature in my opinion. I went back and looked at the play-by-play for every single one of our games this year and only found one pass interference on Tramon Williams prior to last night. He had one in the fourth quarter against Dallas for a whopping 3 yards (albeit in the red zone, Woodson picked off Romo on the next play). I don't know how you can exactly get a reputation for one game where it was clear the refs were trigger happy with the flags all night for everyone. The coaches need to tell him to drop his arm to his hip so he can just feel where the receiver is and not grab the arm. He is in decent enough position on most of these coverages and he does a good job looking back to locate the ball. That's not something you could ever say about Ahmad. He just jumped on the receivers back and went for a ride. He never looked back for the ball and never had the slightest clue what the fuck was going on.
Born and bred a cheesehead
PackFanWithTwins
14 years ago

So what did everyone think of all the pass interference calls in Monday night's game? I thought every single one of them was correct, plus they missed at least one on Tramon Williams. He was horrible. He needs to play better. Kudos to him for hanging in there and getting the big interception in the end zone, though.

"Greg C." wrote:



By rule, yes they were all correct and probably could have had another good dozen flags if they wanted.

Pass interference has become carried away. Defender flagged for "Armbar" Well how did the WR arm get their. It is called a push off which is just as illegal as PI. As a matter of fact, it is offensive PI.

Go back to allowing the hand play. Both WR and DB do it. Let the players play.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
go.pack.go.
14 years ago
Okay, I haven't read any other posts in this thread, so I'm just going to say what I think.

Here we go.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE RULE THAT STATES IF YOU'RE GOING FOR THE BALL, THERE'S NO INTERFERENCE???

On the play in the end zone where Tramon scraped the guy's chest, I think that was a terrible call. Tramon was looking back at the ball and he was going for it. However, I do believe that he was in good position to intercept the ball had he gone up for it with two hands.

I think this game was too tightly refereed and there were a lot of calls made that shouldn't have been.
UserPostedImage
porky88
14 years ago
Tick for tack. I like to let the players battle. There is pushing and shoving on every contested ball if you slow down the play. We'll see how Williams plays the rest of the year. Too me, he did nothing different than what I've seen Al Harris do for along time. Perhaps, Williams doesn't get the benefited of the doubt.

At least the refs called it both ways. If you're going to call a game like that, stay consistent and they were.
14 years ago
Their calling was a wash, yeah. The Ravens slung the ball downfield to take advantage of it though. That's when the refs became detrimental to the game.
UserPostedImage
aa-rod_is_cool
14 years ago
I thought most of the calls were legit but a couple had me screaming at the TV. I even got mad on a couple of calls called on the Ravens. Like the one where Rodgers through a bomb to jennings and the ravens CB just had a hand on him an they flag him. I heard on ESPN today that that officiating crew called the 2nd most penalty yards on teams this year so thats just how they roll.
blank
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