Pack93z
14 years ago
All About.. I will agree that Colledge brings tangibles to the table, and honestly, I have said this more than once for a couple of years now.. with a good teacher that would "get through" to these guys, I think we could have a very good solid offensive line.. and honestly how Mike McCarthy deploys the offense.. if we could get solid consistent play from this group, can you imagine that fits we could give defenses.

IMO.. ditch the Campen experiment and bring about a veteran offensive line coach that will drill fundamentals into this group.. demand a certain level of play snap in and out.

I know Colledge and Spitz can play in this league, I have seen them do it in spurts over the course of the past couple years.. it is just consistency using proper fundamentals snap in and out..

That is what drives me nuts.. I know they can do it.. they just aren't being coached up to get it out of them consistently.

Then there are the issues of breakdowns in scheme.. which is either the players fault for missing reads or the coaches fault for a shitty scheme.. being I am not in the huddle I can't say for sure whom is at fault.. but I will blame the freaking coaches for either way.. either they suck at blocking schemes and blitz reads.. or they keep shuffling guys out there that suck at making the reads in live action.. Need to get pressure on the Packers.. run delayed stunts on them.. confuses them up every freaking time.

There.. got my quarterly rant about the offensive line coaches out of my system.. they have had plenty of guys to develop on that line.. they haven't gotten it done yet. Piss poor SOBing excuse of a....
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Stevetarded
14 years ago
What's the beef with Spitz? All I remember about him at RG was him being very consistent in pass and run blocking as well as rarely being penalized. I don't think we saw enough of him at C this year to know if he was very good at that particular position. Especially when that whole line was a mess. In 2008 I think he only gave up like 2 sacks which was less than anybody.
blank
RainX
14 years ago
I have to disagree with the article in automatically giving Clifton an Orlando Pace caliber deal this off-season. That's a disaster waiting to happen in overpaying a player whose best year's are clearly behind him. How many times did we watch Clifton get helped off the field this year because of a bum ankle? I think the team was damn fortunate last season to get what they did out of Clifton despite his bloated salary. After watching Clifton nurse that bum tire of his again on the sidelines during our playoff loss to the Cardinals, that was all the proof I needed in hoping to high heaven we did not bring him back next season as anything more than an inexpensive backup, which is what he should be at this point of his career.

So what do you do to address the LT position then? You keep an eye on some of those younger RFA LT's and see what teams tender them at and pursue them hard if the tender isn't higher than a 1st round pick. It's better to use that $5 million towards a proven younger talent at LT and give up a 1st round pick then either re-signing Clifton whose best years are clearly behind him or hoping you can insert someone like a Bulaga into your starting line-up Week 1. If your goal is to use a 1st round pick on a LT, why not try and go after someone who is already a proven commodity in RFA?

Tauscher still has some gas left in the tank, and he's probably going to be willing to sign a reasonable deal to stay with the Packers. That way you can continue to develop Lang as your future RT instead of thrusting him into LT where he's probably not the best fit. Wells and Dietrich-Smith are you two centers. Sitton is your starting RG. Colledge and Spitz battle it out in camp for your starting LG with the loser being your primary backup at RG & LG. Proven RFA acquisition is your starting LT. Draft a developmental LT in the later rounds of the draft to backup RFA at LT or see if someone like a Giacomini is worth keeping on the 53-man roster next season.

Obviously it would take a big leap of faith by Ted Thompson to get this done (and hope some things fall your way) by offering a RFA an offer sheet after March 5, but as long as the asking price isn't ridiculous (more than a lone 1st round pick) when you were probably going to use that pick on a LT of the future anyways, wny not go out and try to get a proven commodity in one of those upper tier RFAs? With how ridiculous some rookie contracts are getting these days, there probably wouldn't be a HUGE discrepancy between a RFA contract and a rookie 1st round contract for a player you'd end up drafting. The only difference is the RFA is probably a proven commodity while the rookie 1st rounder wouldn't be.
blank
Pack93z
14 years ago
If you are referencing what I have said about him.. my only complaint about Spitz is that he never had the chance to settle into a position long term.. some because of injury.. some because of our annual game of switchero along the offensive line..

Where does that fall back on? Player aquisition and more importantly development and positional "Coaching"... where my biggest "beef" lies.

Lack of development, inconsistency amoungst most of the additions since Campen has taken the reins.. washout of several guys that looked like they could be developed into serviceable players.. halfway through the 07' was enough for me.. and yet we sit here with the same performances.

There is an old saying.. repeating the same actions and expecting different results is plain foolish.. when we add in some veterans whom were brought up in the game with proven coaches we settle in.. but if they aren't in there.. my gosh do we have issues.. any questions see the first half of this season.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
porky88
14 years ago
RainX makes a good point. The Bears signing of Orlando Pace was a bust. Green Bay doesn't want to make that mistake with Clifton. I'd go on a one year deal. If someone else wants to pay high dollar for him, let them.

I agree that Spitz has been moved around too much. The best thing to do with him is find a position, and let him stick to it. I look at all the talk about not being able to replace Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera and now GB has a chance to so for along time.

Spitz is the LG and Sitton is the RG. Done deal in my view.

I personally would not mind seeing an offensive line of

LT: Draft Pick
LG: Jason Spitz
C: Scott Wells
RG: Josh Sitton
RT: T.J. Lang

If the three young guys in that unit develop, it's already better. If you believe in your scouting process and I believe in the Packers' scouting department, you can find a quality left tackle in this years draft with your first-round pick. If you have to move up to get him, then do it.
all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

RainX makes a good point. The Bears signing of Orlando Pace was a bust. Green Bay doesn't want to make that mistake with Clifton. I'd go on a one year deal. If someone else wants to pay high dollar for him, let them.

I personally would not mind seeing an offensive line of

LT: Draft Pick
LG: Jason Spitz
C: Scott Wells
RG: Josh Sitton
RT: T.J. Lang

"porky88" wrote:




To be fair, it was obvious when the Rams released Pace that he was running on empty. Cliffy showed that he still has something left, based off the last year when he played. Granted he is not an elite LT anymore, but I still think he can offer you something whereas Pace was done when the Bears signed him. That said, no way you want to enter into a long term contract with Cliffy beyond 2 years (if even that) only to realize you're stuck with a player that has nothing left.

The problem with letting Cliffy go, for me, and relying on a draft pick is that Draft picks take time to develop. To expect a LT to come in from day one and not have ups and downs like rookies normally do is asking an awful lot of any draft choice. For every Joe Thomas, you end up having Jason Smith (Rams) / Andre Smith (Bengals), Eugene Monroe (Jags), Robert Gallery (Raiders),; LT prospects that: 1) are no where ready to play LT even on bad teams like Jason Smith (#2 pick last year), or 2) do manage to start a good chunk of games but are maddeningly inconsistent (have ups and downs) like Eugene Monro, or 3) players that are busts a la Gallery. Take even someone like Jake Long, who started to come into his own in his second year for the Dolphins.

My point is, this is a superbowl contending team. Do we really want to release from the gate with a rookie as our LT? So much can go wrong when you do that.

Now, if you think Lang is a LT or can even be a stop-gap for a year or so, then I think you move on from Cliffy and roll the dice in the first couple of rounds on finding a good LT prospect that needs time to develop. This is Ted and Mike's job: they need to figure out what our current guys can do. If you don't think Lang is the answer, then there is no way in heck you let Cliffy hit the open market. Transition / Franchise him so you have someone who you know is capable of playing the position.

No way in hell should the Packers, at any point in time this season, be without a LT. That is inviting disaster. If you think Lang is the guy, then you try to get Cliffy back on a very reasonable contract. If you think Lang isn't the answer, you find a way to make sure no one else gets even a chance of getting Clifton. All the while, planning to secure the future at the position through the draft.

(Unless, of course, the Packers decide someone such as Donald Penn - a RFA - is the answer and can be obtained for a high draft pick. Which introduces a completely different dynamic for securing the position, one which I would expect Ted to at least mull in passing.)
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
zombieslayer
14 years ago



I love your passionate write-ups. Lol. I'll react to this seriously. I can never figure out whether you're screwing around or are dead serious.

First problem. I'm not ok with Kampy playing OLB. He should not be on our roster next year. I don't care if we don't get anything for him. All that he'll do is hold back our young guys while he's out there looking awfully average. At best.

The next problem is, those young guys aren't elite players, either. Jones isn't good enough at the point of attack. He doesn't get passed most RTs. Thompson has been a question mark so far, but didn't look too good in his rookie season. Poppinga isn't the pass rusher you want there.

That leaves us with a big hole right there. A hole I wouldn't mind being filled with a 1st rounder in Brandon Graham. Or a 2nd rounder in Kindle, maybe.

Or an elite safety, for that matter. And a young corner. And a KR/PR. And yes, Dave, a RB.

Sorry.

We can put up 45 points with a good O-line. We can't stop an opposing team from scoring 51 with a good O-line.

If we where to invest all those picks into our O-line, though, I'd rather have us trading up. Throw a 1st, a 2nd and, maybe, a 3rd to one of the teams a little higher up in the first round and go with a real quality OT.

I can't wait till draft day. Be sure to join the gameday chat, Dave. Dhazer exploding when we didn't draft Crabtree was amusing. Dave going crazy when we don't pick an OT in the first two rounds will be hilarious.

No offense, of course.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Rock - look at it this way. How long do you think Aaron Rodgers will play in the NFL if he gets sacked 50+ times a year? Who is our MVP right now? Tough call between Aaron Rodgers and Charles Woodson, but you get my point. We need Aaron Rodgers and we need him healthy.

OL should be our #1 priority. Our #2 priority of course is bumping up our D into elite status.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
dfosterf
14 years ago
This link has a little something for everyone in it.

After you get past the part where I GET TO RUB DHAZER's NOSE IN THE THE STATEMENT by an NFL agent THAT AARON RODGERS would command OVER 30 MILLION DOLLARS MORE than he is making now if Ted had waited to sign him, :tongue3:

...We get to many of the questions posed here in one page.

Seattle possibly making a move for Cliffy? Not good for the wallet.

Packers prioritizing left side of offensive line? Good!!!!

Calling a bookend to CM3 priority 1b? Very good. See Rock, I only ACT insane, lol

Worth a read, and it will not take long.

Packerupdate.net 

Getting back to that 30 million - off-topic, but food for thought---

A lot of us called it brilliant at the time. Some (he he he) CLUNG to a concept that it was stupid.

30 mil left in the coffers for things like over-priced linemen, instead of extra boats, cars and beachfront properties, etc. for Aaron....AND HE COULD NOT BE HAPPIER AS A PLAYER!!!!--And that is "HIS" money, and he (and his agent) most assuredly KNOW IT, but are happy ANYWAY!

So, MAJOR props to Ted for the sheer brilliance and foresight!
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

CAMPEN IS THE NEW SANDERS
 

It took Mike McCarthy three seasons to realize that Bob Sanders was an inferior defensive coordinator. His replacement, the widely respected Dom Capers, immediately overhauled the scheme and the attitude of the players and the result was a No. 2 overall ranking this past season and the belief that even better days are ahead. Unfortunately, three seasons apparently isnt enough time for McCarthy to realize that James Campen is to coaching an offensive line what Sanders was to coordinating a defense a decent man who simply isnt good enough at his job. The only way you can judge an assistant coach from afar is by looking at the on-field results, said a longtime scout for another team. Using that critieria, its awfully difficult to make a strong case for keeping Campen. He hasnt had much success developing young players, his unit almost always struggles out of the gate, and if not for the re-signing of Mark Tauscher in the middle of October, Aaron Rodgers may have been sacked over 70 times last season. Again, from afar, youd have to think McCarthy could do better.

When specifically asked about bringing his embattled assistant back for another season, McCarthys response was interesting if not a bit telling. Instead of immediately lauding Campens teaching skills, he first defended Campen by pointing to the impressive numbers posted by the offense in 2009. I certainly dont blame McCarthy for bringing up statistics, but to me, thats a bit of a red herring, said the scout. The play of the line was absolutely killing the Packers before Tauscher returned to the starting lineup in November. Rodgers was getting pressured on almost every pass, Ryan Grants average yards per carry was under 4.0 and the team was 4-4. In my opinion, if anyone associated with the offensive line deserves another season, its Tauscher. He and not Campen is the main reason for the turnaround.

While McCarthy didnt laud Campens teaching skills while speaking to reporters last week, the teams media guide provided this little gem prior to the start of the 09 season: A natural teacher, Campen has worked hands-on in the development of three linemen now entering their fourth seasons Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz and Tony Moll. Yikes. Considering the fact that Colledge may have played his way out of Green Bay and Moll already has, its probably safe to assume that as an educator, Campen is more Mr. Kotter than Mr. Tibbs. Spitz is a good player, but Im not sure how much hes really improved under Campen, said the scout. He was solid from day one.

To be fair, not every offensive lineman has either remained stagnant or regressed under Campens tutelege. Josh Sitton was a tackle for four seasons at Central Florida and now hes one of the better young right guards in the league. You have to give Campen props for that. Sitton is definitely an ascending player, said the scout. My biggest problem with Campen isnt individual player development as much as it is with the way the line works as a whole. Things were a mess the first eight games. I know that Allen Barbre was a disaster and Chad Clifton was in and out of the lineup, but thats not a valid excuse for just how bad things were. What was a valid excuse? McCarthy blamed, what else, pad level. OK, then forget all the other reasons and just get rid of Campen because he cant teach grown men the concept that the player whose pads are the lowest wins.


UserPostedImage
dfosterf
14 years ago
After Pack93z went off on Campen again, I decided to go ahead and read just about everything available on the net regarding him.

We could do better. IMO a lot better.

The players like him a lot from what I have read, but obviously and more importantly, Mike McCarthy likes him, and this is the kind of shit where Mike is stubborn.

I am afraid we are stuck with James Campen, the merits of his continued employment not relevant unless (at times) stubborn McCarthy changes his mind.
Fan Shout
dfosterf (17h) : Maybe
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Yes
Zero2Cool (18h) : No.
Mucky Tundra (21h) : End of a Degu-era
dhazer (21h) : Steelers sign Patterson because of new kickoff rule interesting
Zero2Cool (28-Mar) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
Zero2Cool (28-Mar) : They do not do it for "content sake".
dfosterf (28-Mar) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (27-Mar) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
2h / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

28-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

28-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.