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Offline blueleopard  
#26 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:52:27 PM(UTC)
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Collins has been money this year. He's made like 4 TD saving tackles this season.

Tramon has made two himself.

These speed guys are money.
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Offline beast  
#27 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:56:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Which begs the question. Would you rather have someone who's a ballhawk, or would you rather have one side of the field totally shut down?


That is an easy one.. shutdown.. it allows you so much more flexiblity in your defense... whether it is rolling coverage over or shading up in run support.. it gives you so many options in coverage if you wanted it, it isn't even funny.

Even a shutdown gets burned once in a while.. but for a DC.. give me those dice and I will roll with them everytime.


Easy one for me as well. I would rather have a guy that can shut down the other teams best WR.

And I think the coaches would pick the person that makes the least mistakes. If that the same they would go with the person that makes bigger plays.

But usually the shut down guy makes less mistakes because their not gambling as much.

That being said as much as I like Harris, is he a shut down guy?

I say yes, but he may not be able to shut down the physical #1 guys anymore or the tall smart ones.

Plexico (or how ever you spell the Giants #1 WR name) was beating Harris because he had longer arms and knew how to use them to get Harris far enough away to not be able to jam him and because he's faster than Harris.

Also Harris has been beaten by WR that could handle his physicalness because they were ever physical as well. And Harris looked like he was having trouble with the speed of the Vikings WR this year.

I'm just saying Harris isn't at his prime anymore, and while still a good CB, not what he used to be. I think Harris would do better on most but their may be some WRs that Williams would do better on than Harris.

And Harris would be coming back from an injury and would have to get back into football shape, so he might put at nickel after he gets healthy.
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Offline blueleopard  
#28 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:00:55 AM(UTC)
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Slot receivers are usually speed kings though, and that's not exactly going to work in Harris' favor.

I mean, look at Miles Austin in Dallas.
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Offline earthquake  
#29 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:13:20 AM(UTC)
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Williams has stepped up very well, the worst part about having him start isnt that he is a liability, infact he's playing very well, but that it bumps everyone else up. We really do not have a solid, reliable nickleback. But it does look like we will have a solid starter for the future in Williams. Also, chuck wood is a bad ass.
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Offline beast  
#30 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:14:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Slot receivers are usually speed kings though, and that's not exactly going to work in Harris' favor.

I mean, look at Miles Austin in Dallas.


If your talking about what I said with Harris being the nickel a little....

The Nickel guy usually doesn't cover the slot. The Nickel guy usually covers one of the out side guys, because that lets them use the side lines for help which the guy covering the slot can't do.

Also if you remember Harris did a pretty good job at shutting down Patrick Crayton (0 catches for the Packer game)

Also last year if we would bring in the nickel Woodson always covered the slot.

This year it has always been Woodson or Williams. The Packers don't Harris or their younger guys their.
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Offline earthquake  
#31 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:18:38 AM(UTC)
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Something interesting here, GB has 3 of the top 10 leaders in interceptions so far this year, Charles Woodson tied for #1 with 4, and Collins and Williams tied for #4 with 3.

http://www.nfl.com/stats...=2008&seasonType=REG
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Offline wpr  
#32 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:24:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Tramon is good. He's decent in coverage, makes some big plays, and if you throw underneath, he WILL tackle you.

Unlike collins and most everyone else who tries to hit instead of tackle...


Go Tramon!!!!!!!!


I love a player who knows how to tackle. I just hate it when the defender plays bumper cars. I do not care if he knocks the offensive player down every single time. It is poor technique. Get your arms around the offensive player and tackle him please. Don't they teach that in Pee Wee football these days? In the old days you would run laps till you dropped if you didn't tackle correctly. I can't imagine someone playing for Bear Bryant or Woody Hayes and hitting the guy with his shoulder.
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Offline evad04  
#33 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:36:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Do I really have to make a Collins missed tackle Low-light reel? Cuz I will...

That certainly was Collins' M.O. going into this year, but so far this season he's been one of the defenses standout performers. He's always had good closing speed; it's just his tackling and hands needed to improve. Both have, and it's showed in his performance and on the stat sheet.

Oh, and on Tramon -- he's looked very good so far. Makes me think we'll have ourselves a pretty darn good corner post Woodson/Harris. The fact that he's doing well RIGHT NOW makes it all the better. Cornerback has certainly been a position of concern -- the "fear of the unknown" type.
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Offline porky88  
#34 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 1:03:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
When Bigby gets back, yeah, I'd agree. There'll be less big plays against us.

But with Al... I hate to say it--but I almost don't miss him.

Which begs the question. Would you rather have someone who's a ballhawk, or would you rather have one side of the field totally shut down?


I'm not sure yet how Williams compares to Harris, because Williams hasn't gone up against any good receivers or QB's yet. But so far so good.


This is a great point. So far so good, but next week Peyton Manning will test this secondary more than it's ever been tested in my opinion. A lot of hatred for Manning on this forum, but he is good and his football smarts is what makes him hard to defend. He got the best of Baltimore this week and I'll be surprised if he doesn't the Packers next week.
Offline agopackgo4  
#35 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 6:57:38 AM(UTC)
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I dont think we lose anything with Williams in there, than when we have Harris. Sure Harris is solid. But in all honesty I do not think he is as good as people make him out to be. No INT's last year...He got torched in the playoffs. But sure!! I will take Harris back any day now, leadership, and experience are qualities that you cant get, except with a guy like him. But for the time being..Im satisfied with the way Williams has played!
Offline Greg C.  
#36 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 8:24:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
No INT's last year...


Harris had two picks last year. He's never been a big INT guy for us, though.
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Offline brnt247  
#37 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 1:14:10 PM(UTC)
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Tramon has been great, but Harris is still much better. Hopefully when Harris gets back we have Atari back too so we can go to a lot of nickel sets but still be able to stop the run because Atari is an animal.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#38 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 1:31:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Tramon is good. He's decent in coverage, makes some big plays, and if you throw underneath, he WILL tackle you.

Unlike collins and most everyone else who tries to hit instead of tackle...


Go Tramon!!!!!!!!


WTF?

Collins has been nothing but spectacular this season. This is even coming from someone who was anti-Collins last year. Have you and I been watching the same games?
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Offline Packnic  
#39 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 2:39:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I dont think we lose anything with Williams in there, than when we have Harris. Sure Harris is solid. But in all honesty I do not think he is as good as people make him out to be. No INT's last year...He got torched in the playoffs. But sure!! I will take Harris back any day now, leadership, and experience are qualities that you cant get, except with a guy like him. But for the time being..Im satisfied with the way Williams has played!



Al Harris doesnt get interceptions because no one ever throws to his side.. until NY did it.
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Offline agopackgo4  
#40 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 2:54:20 PM(UTC)
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They throw it to his side, he breaks up a lot of plays. How does he do that if they dont throw to his side?
Offline agopackgo4  
#41 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 2:56:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
No INT's last year...


Harris had two picks last year. He's never been a big INT guy for us, though.


Sorry, my bad! should have done my research
Offline warhawk  
#42 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 4:36:52 PM(UTC)
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I also thought the reaction time of the DB's and corners was better coming up on the run. We actually busted up plays being strung out to either sidelines....at least when KGB wasn't getting his butt handed to him.

I actually saw one run play around his side where he got 0 penetration and he took off down the line of scrimmage which of course was a positive run for them. I mean you have to get into the backfield SOME and make the back go around you or cut it back up. I was looking right at him when the play went that way and said " well, that's a first down". It was.

The corners and safeties though got up there quickly and shut much of the outside stuff down. I think that is something Tramon has had to work hard at because he's so intent to cover he doesn't get back upfield on runs like I think he WILL do as he get's in there more.

That is if the DE over there does ANYTHING to help.
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Offline Bigbyfan  
#43 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 4:47:19 PM(UTC)
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From Packers.com

Quote:
Cornerback Tramon Williams intercepted a Charlie Frye pass in the fourth quarter to give him an interception in each of the last three games, all of which he started in place of an injured Al Harris. Williams now has posted an interception in all four career games he has started.



Hard to believe that he barely made the roster last year.
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Offline Pack93z  
#44 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 4:51:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
From Packers.com

Quote:
Cornerback Tramon Williams intercepted a Charlie Frye pass in the fourth quarter to give him an interception in each of the last three games, all of which he started in place of an injured Al Harris. Williams now has posted an interception in all four career games he has started.



Hard to believe that he barely made the roster last year.


I seen him a couple times last year in the family night and preseason at Lambeau.. I don't think it was very difficult to see his potential and play.. I don't think he was on the verge of not making the team last year.. Bush and he were about neck and neck.. Williams grew.. Bush regressed..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline gbpfan  
#45 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 7:34:44 PM(UTC)
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i think tramon is doing great he has made some mistakes but i think you will see a better player each game he plays manning will test him but i think he will find that to be a mistake.i think in all he will underestimate THE D-LINE the corners and safties will be tested a lot :icon_smile:
Offline CubanPenguin  
#46 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 9:37:29 PM(UTC)
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I have to say I've been amazed and very pleased by Williams, When I first heard he was going to start I was pretty worried but I couldn't be happier, he covers WR's like a blanket and he has some pretty good ball skills.

Even better considering I thought they should have cut him last year.
Keep it up Tramon!
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