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Offline Zero2Cool  
#31 Posted : Saturday, July 31, 2010 2:28:19 PM(UTC)
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Is it the time quantity of interceptions or the timing of interceptions that sticks to Brett the most?

The only 7 you toss in the regular season mean squat when you throw 2 in the championship game that all but seal your teams defeat.

Go ahead, chuck 20 during the regular season, but go ahead and give me 0 in the post season.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#32 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 3:15:33 AM(UTC)
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First, Favre's int percentage perception. Favre was tied for 51st for his career. Behind Jeff Blake, Trent Green and Tony Banks. Ironically, the guy at the top of the list, Aaron Rodgers with 1.8. You can cherry pick who ever to make him look good or bad. The fact remains that he is pretty far down the list. The thing about Starr is when they really needed him, he showed up. during 64-66 seasons, Starr had a total 16 INTs in 42 consecutive games. We won 3 championships during that run.

Second, Give or Take? The Saints made a living taking the ball from everybody they played. The fact that the Vikings were not careless with the ball last year, supports my assessment that the Saints took it from them. The Saints were better at taking the ball than the Viking were at keeping it.

Pop quiz, did you see all the highlights of the NO players knocking the ball out? They were not drops, they were strips. They were punching and ripping at the ball every tackle. They tried harder to take it than the Vikings to keep it.

Third, was he for real of was it an Illusion? I saw a lot of INTs that were dropped. San Fran dropped one right before that throw. Balt dropped one that would have stopped the game winning drive. Woodson had one in the endzone called back by a bad PI call in MN. Some passes were thrown up for grabs and the receiver came down with it. Typical triple coverage pop ups. I think it was not the system. He could easily have had double the total he ended up with. I think reality will slap them in the back of the neck this year.

Fouth. Choking hazard, Favres losing efforts in the playoffs, he has a rating under 70 for the last 12 years. Attesting to the choking Zero was referring to.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#33 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 3:20:22 AM(UTC)
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Good stuff, but the dropped INT's, every QB has at least a half dozen of those babies. Just like they have a few that are the WR's fault for tipping or running the wrong route.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#34 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 4:08:49 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Good stuff, but the dropped INT's, every QB has at least a half dozen of those babies. Just like they have a few that are the WR's fault for tipping or running the wrong route.


Everybody has dropped INTs, sometimes you are luckier than others. When they drop game changing INTs are what I was talking about. They seemed to have some lucky bounces. Some were stone hands, hit em in the numbers drops.

We missed a couple against Pitt that would have sealed that game. Woodson in particular going across the middle in underneath coverage a couple of plays before the game winner.

That is they way it goes. Some years you are unlucky and every ball has a weird bounce and goes the wrong way and some years go your way. I think this was one of the going your way years for Favre. Until NO that is.
Offline Formo  
#35 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:23:44 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
First, Favre's int percentage perception. Favre was tied for 51st for his career. Behind Jeff Blake, Trent Green and Tony Banks. Ironically, the guy at the top of the list, Aaron Rodgers with 1.8. You can cherry pick who ever to make him look good or bad. The fact remains that he is pretty far down the list. The thing about Starr is when they really needed him, he showed up. during 64-66 seasons, Starr had a total 16 INTs in 42 consecutive games. We won 3 championships during that run.


Perception? The numbers are numbers. The INT%, TD% and completion % to me are the most important individual stat for a QB. My point is Favre isn't as bad with the INT part as we all thought he was. But you can keep denying those numbers all you want. I already compared him to the NFL best when it came down to it.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
Second, Give or Take? The Saints made a living taking the ball from everybody they played. The fact that the Vikings were not careless with the ball last year, supports my assessment that the Saints took it from them. The Saints were better at taking the ball than the Viking were at keeping it.

Pop quiz, did you see all the highlights of the NO players knocking the ball out? They were not drops, they were strips. They were punching and ripping at the ball every tackle. They tried harder to take it than the Vikings to keep it.


And the botched handoff was caused by the Saints, too, right? My point is.. the Vikings ballhandlers didn't do their job handling the rock. NO can punch, rip and yank at the thing all game long, it doesn't negate that the Vikings still have to hold on to the thing. This is why I put the blame soley on the Vikings ballhandlers. I credit NO for their relentlessly opportunistic defense, but bottom line if you have the ball, you don't lose it. Ever.


" said: Go to Quoted Post
Third, was he for real of was it an Illusion? I saw a lot of INTs that were dropped. San Fran dropped one right before that throw. Balt dropped one that would have stopped the game winning drive. Woodson had one in the endzone called back by a bad PI call in MN. Some passes were thrown up for grabs and the receiver came down with it. Typical triple coverage pop ups. I think it was not the system. He could easily have had double the total he ended up with. I think reality will slap them in the back of the neck this year.


I agree with Zero on this one.. You can say that for every single QB in the league (about the dropped INTs, etc), so to say that Favre coulda/woulda/shoulda is moot.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
Fouth. Choking hazard, Favres losing efforts in the playoffs, he has a rating under 70 for the last 12 years. Attesting to the choking Zero was referring to.


Like I said after that game.. It's ignorant to the season and to the history of the Vikings to say Favre choked that game for the Vikings instead of acknowledging that it was the VIKINGS that choked that game away. Every casual NFL fan that doesn't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to the history of the Vikings, thus they laughed that 'Favre choked in that game' completely ignoring the 5 1/2 - 6 1/2 other times the ball was dropped by a player in purple withOUT the number 4 on the jersey.

Don't get me wrong, Favre's history in the playoffs isn't all that great, and I am very much aware of this. But sadly enough for the rest of the NFL, even with said history he still gives the Vikings the best chance at a playoff run.
Offline CDNRodgersfan  
#36 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 5:40:34 PM(UTC)
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To me time of int plays a big role and that's why Montana will always be the greatest. The guy kept cutting down on his int's the more important the game and I'm to lazy to check it up but I do believe he's only thrown like 1 int in SB games
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#37 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 7:46:18 PM(UTC)
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Yes, though they would have not won that fourth Super Bowl had the defense not dropped an interception thrown directly into their hands.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#38 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 8:50:33 PM(UTC)
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Interception percentage perception was just a little alliteration. I know you compared him to the recognizable names, my point was, it was cherry picking and not counting every ones else that was above him. Spinning it to make him look better. That is why I said to take the spin off, he was flat out ranked 51st. He is right on the edge of the top 25%.

For the TO battle, MN played their game and NO played theirs. NO is known for creating TOs. You call them opportunists which is not accurate, they were larcenists. MN lost the TO battle because NO was better at playing their game than MN was at their own. Even if you split that hair, it is far from a fluke because NO always did that.

I did mention the botched hand off in an earlier post. I also mentioned the final Int as being a possible exception. But if you look at the penetration by the D-line, they may be responsible for AP altering his path because a defender shot through the hole he was heading for resulting in a forced fumble. I couldn't get a good look from the views shown so that is questionable, either way. But yes, I did mention that.

As per my response to Zero in the comment about dropped INTS, I was referring to Game Changers. Balt, SF and @GB could easily have been loses because of poor throws at a critical time. Throws that in years past may have been caught. In short, he did get lucky.

As far as Favre choking, He has a history of having low ratings in the playoff losses, as he did in NO. I would not call a 70 rating a clutch performance. His career average would have been enough to win that game. His average for the year would have been enough to win by a couple of scores. If he played as well as Rodgers did in our loss against AZ, he would have watched the final quarter from the bench because they would have had a 3 touchdown lead. A great player steps up at critical times and actually gets better regardless of how the rest of the team plays. Not worse. I am not saying he is responsible for the loss, but he is for playing poorly. Gutsy, but poorly.

Sure, best chance at a playoff run, he is a great QB. But the Vikings have lots of Playoff appearances, they got there the year before Favre signed. They want a Super Bowl win. He has shown an inconsistency that makes a 3 game run in the playoffs unlikely, if you are counting on him. The only time we made it was when it wasn't up to him to get us there.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#39 Posted : Sunday, August 1, 2010 10:00:06 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
To me time of int plays a big role and that's why Montana will always be the greatest. The guy kept cutting down on his int's the more important the game and I'm to lazy to check it up but I do believe he's only thrown like 1 int in SB games


Joe Montana did not throw an interception during a Super Bowl.

The fourth Super Bowl Joe won, was by 45 points, no single interception would have swung that one.
Offline Formo  
#40 Posted : Monday, August 2, 2010 1:54:15 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Interception percentage perception was just a little alliteration. I know you compared him to the recognizable names, my point was, it was cherry picking and not counting every ones else that was above him. Spinning it to make him look better. That is why I said to take the spin off, he was flat out ranked 51st. He is right on the edge of the top 25%.


I was cherry picking the BEST QBS IN THE GAME. Not to make Favre look good. Alluding that I was trying to skew the stats is what I am defending. Was NOT my intention and I'd appreciate it if you stopped alluding to it in that manner, mmk?

" said: Go to Quoted Post
For the TO battle, MN played their game and NO played theirs. NO is known for creating TOs. You call them opportunists which is not accurate, they were larcenists. MN lost the TO battle because NO was better at playing their game than MN was at their own. Even if you split that hair, it is far from a fluke because NO always did that.


It was a fluke in my eyes because when was the last time ANY team put the rock on the ground more than 6 times in a game? And the Vikings did just that. NO averaged 2.4 turnovers by defense last regular season.. the Vikings average 1.1 turnovers by the offense last regular season. You are correct in that the Saints won that battle of the wills.. but it's still flukey. NO forced 4 turnovers 3 times last year.. no game did they force over 4 until that championship game.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
I did mention the botched hand off in an earlier post. I also mentioned the final Int as being a possible exception. But if you look at the penetration by the D-line, they may be responsible for AP altering his path because a defender shot through the hole he was heading for resulting in a forced fumble. I couldn't get a good look from the views shown so that is questionable, either way. But yes, I did mention that.


I missed that post. But you can't credit the Saints for causing that TO.. just for being opportunistic enough to land on the thing. No matter what the cause.. AP should NOT have dropped it.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
As per my response to Zero in the comment about dropped INTS, I was referring to Game Changers. Balt, SF and @GB could easily have been loses because of poor throws at a critical time. Throws that in years past may have been caught. In short, he did get lucky.


Lucky like every other QB that has had an INT or two dropped.. Like every other QB in the league.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
As far as Favre choking, He has a history of having low ratings in the playoff losses, as he did in NO. I would not call a 70 rating a clutch performance. His career average would have been enough to win that game. His average for the year would have been enough to win by a couple of scores. If he played as well as Rodgers did in our loss against AZ, he would have watched the final quarter from the bench because they would have had a 3 touchdown lead. A great player steps up at critical times and actually gets better regardless of how the rest of the team plays. Not worse. I am not saying he is responsible for the loss, but he is for playing poorly. Gutsy, but poorly.


Oh, he didn't have a good game that day, I agree. I don't think A-Rod would have had the lead you think he would have if he was QBing the Vikes because AP dropped the ball 3 times, not Favre. But we really can't discuss that too deeply because A-Rod doesn't QB the Vikes. Favre is a great player and anyone saying otherwise is foolish. The best? I don't think so. One of the greatest? Yes. I don't get how people only remember some QBs for the 10 poor passes they throw and not for the almost 40 good to great throws.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
Sure, best chance at a playoff run, he is a great QB. But the Vikings have lots of Playoff appearances, they got there the year before Favre signed. They want a Super Bowl win. He has shown an inconsistency that makes a 3 game run in the playoffs unlikely, if you are counting on him. The only time we made it was when it wasn't up to him to get us there.


So, who would you have suggested the Vikings go after instead of signing Favre last year? Not a single QB that the Vikes had a chance to sign would have brought to the table what Favre did.
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