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dfosterf  
#1 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 6:43:51 PM(UTC)
Well, I'm out.

I always respected this place moreso than the others for the free range of ideas. Unfortunately there have been several incidents of the site owner deciding that he personally didn't like the direction the conversation was going, where it was placed, etc.

Taking down the site, taking threads off, all his perogotive.

Leaving this site is mine.

Peace.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:41:44 PM(UTC)
So, members are allowed free range, but the site owner is not allowed to have a free range of ideas? Interesting.


I don't like the direction of the site and I said, I'm formulating something to better illustrate what I'd like to see, instead of continuing to whine about it and expect others to guess my directional idea.
4PackGirl  
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:57:17 PM(UTC)
but...but...but we're going to the SUPER BOWL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOBODY'S LEAVIN, DAMNIT!!
Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:10:22 PM(UTC)
I won't fight to keep anyone here. But I won't deny the site is shit lately and hopefully I can explain myself and actions and turn it around.

I don't want people to leave but I don't fault or blame anyone for leaving.

a lot of the issues stem from what I see in the mirror. I'm failing.
4PackGirl  
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:18:14 PM(UTC)
a small bit of advice.

you've always said this site is made by the people here.

let the people be the people.

if you're frustrated by somebody using shout too much or being negative, trust me - i can understand that. but weighing their good contributions against a few irritations has to come into play somewhere.
Packers_Finland  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:25:08 PM(UTC)
You could change the direction of this site to hardcore gay porn and I'd still come here.
Rockmolder  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:34:24 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
You could change the direction of this site to hardcore gay porn and I'd still come here.


You and VLS would only come here more often.

Anyway, I get Foster's point. The shutting down of threats you don't want to talk about, emptying the shout if it's something you don't want to talk about, throwing the site down after some comments.

Of course you have the right to steer this site, but like you said, the members make this site what it is. And it's the freedom of speech that gets those members here.

Don't get me wrong, it's your site, feel free to do whatever you want. Thing is, when you ban someone who's a troll or just a complete ass, most members will see that as ok. When you start locking threads, throwing the site down and what not because you do not like what's being talked about, quite a few will see it as abusing your power.
peteralan71  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:03:53 PM(UTC)
I want to start by saying that every time this site is in "maintenance" stage, I freak out because I am on here ALL THE TIME. This is by far my favorite place to go on the internet. I have made friends on here, and it is an incredible community where we can be around many others that share in our obsession: the Packers.

I know that I am relatively new here so my opinion probably doesn't mean a whole lot, but I agree that sometimes it seems like when you shut down threads or suspend members, it is a bit much. You, just like myself, NSD, bozz_2006, zombieslayer, etc. etc. etc. tend to be extremely opinionated and every once in awhile get upset with the way things are going and lash out. We all do it. Thats the power of free speech. It is one thing when we get in little spats about things, but it is something entirely different when thread locks and suspesions happen. Just because a thread is locked or somebody is suspended, that doesn't make people forget what the arguments or discussions were about, what it does is anger people that we are unable to talk about things.

Again, I want to say that when we all get pissy with each other, than happens, and I honestly don't get real upset about that. It is free speech.
Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:24:25 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
a small bit of advice.

you've always said this site is made by the people here.

let the people be the people.

if you're frustrated by somebody using shout too much or being negative, trust me - i can understand that. but weighing their good contributions against a few irritations has to come into play somewhere.


One of the main issues I'm coping with right now is my own personal expectations.


I don't lock threads that are simply what I don't want to talk about. I moved two threads that were taken over by talk about Brett Favre. Sorry, but it's the playoffs and now it's Super Bowl time. Forgive me for being a dictator in wanting Packers talk, not former Packers talk dominating the top of the forum. I spend quite a bit of time bringing comments, articles etc here to talk about, as do MANY others that I'm very glad for.

If we could talk about Favre and negative things in moderation with other actual important things, I wouldn't have a sandy vagina about it at all. I think those topics have A place on the site, but I don't think they should be THE place of the site. Know what I mean?


Freedom of speech need to returned, period. I've been too anal on certain things and the more anal I get the more frustrated I get with myself for being anal. Pretty pathetic, I know, but it's just not like me to get like this and it bothers me I've come to this point.


I closed the site down because I wanted to get peoples attention for what I'm about to post, which is something I've been wanting to post for more than a year. Shawn, Dave, Rourke and Matt can attest to me wanting to give the 'theme' of PackersHome.com, which I've failed at doing. Instead of I've been stomping my feet when it doesn't happen. I couldn't have it ready in time and with it being Super Bowl week, I felt I was being selfish and put the site back up.


Regarding the shout box, it means more to any of you than it does to me. When the shout box is cleaned it, it does not mean something pissed me off, put nails in my ass, or anything like that. Sometimes, it's just time to clean it out, its not a big deal so let's stop making a big deal about it, please.


Edit, the lack of a theme for the site is why I felt it was unfair to have moderators because they never knew what the hell I wanted out of them. Hopefully with this post and explanation things will improve.
peteralan71  
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:38:11 PM(UTC)
This makes me think of when I was younger, I had friends over to watch the movie Liar Liar, as well as hang out and have fun. There were many different things planned, but I was the most excited about Liar Liar. When I started the movie, my friends kept on with their conversation, just watching the movie every once in awhile. I got REALLY pissed about this. I knew that I shouldn't, but dammit it was my party and I wanted it to be ran the way I had planned. I went upstairs and my dad chewed my ass for being upset, and sent me back to the basement with my friends.

The moral should be pretty clear. Me getting all upset really didn't change anything. If it had changed anything, the first thing that would have happened would be my friends getting upset with me. All in all, everybody loved the party, just as well all love this site. There are some of us that are going to partake exclusively in what is going on right now, the playoffs and the SB talk. There are some that are going to want to pay some attention to that, but keep on with the conversation they've been having. Everybody wants different things, so everybody is going to be happy with different things.

Basically, the way for all of this to go as smooth as possible (and please believe me, I'm not trying to tell you how to run this site. I love this site so much, and am so incredibly thankful that you put so much work into it.) is for us all to not get upset when we can't bend other members' wills. People will do what they essentially want to do.
Pack93z  
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:50:24 PM(UTC)
I was going to stay out of this thread because it isn't going to end well and it really can wait until after the Superbowl.

That said I have to be honest and because I have a great deal of respect for those that have posted in this thread.. and Foster for speaking his mind of an opinion I have shared at different times in my tenure here.

Moving on.. I don't think that is the intent that Zero has 99.99999% of the time, to disrespect a member here by making them feel they are subordinate and not a equal member.

No disrespect to the site overall, but this is not what makes this place what it is.. it is the members here, the people they are, the relationships built the make this place what it is. And many spend a great deal of time here as an outlet to share with friends.

Yes friends.

This community is unlike many other sports forums where people actually respect (or try) other members and we as a group do a pretty good job of maintaining that. Many go out of their way to help each other out.. often with just words, sometimes with material things.

A tight knit community that has a ton more positives than any perceived negatives.

Anytime someones opinions are treated as a lesser.. especially by the site owner/leader, people are going to disrespect and most will just leave.

Core members are going to place a shout out that they are leaving or taking a break for a while.. so that their friends here know why they are AWOL. Or in hopes that their voice will be heard and they can continue sharing with the friends built. I know from the times I have gotten pissed and left for a while.. it was the people here that drew me back.

Laughing at VR's wit, Foster silly ranting posts, Zero's strange brew of emotions, Zombies passion, Wades depth.. 4PackGirls perverted comments and.. well you know ;) , Dakota's bluntness.. Formo's hidden obsession to becoming a packer fan.. and so many more that could be posted it would take me a while to note all of them.. it is the people that keep them coming back.

And the common thread of our Packers blended in.

Respect is an under-rated tool in this world we live in.. but often lost.

And it is a two way street I may add.. Zero does plenty to be respectful of any shortcomings the peer their head out.
Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:01:45 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Anytime someones opinions are treated as a lesser.. especially by the site owner/leader, people are going to disrespect and most will just leave.


I never ever EVER intend to belittle or demoralize or put down ones opinion. I'm one of the first to say, let's hear your OPINION, that's something I love. I greatly enjoy diverse opinions, such as dhazer's hatred for Ted, Mike and Aaron. I believe once you stopped caring about others opinions, you fail to grow as a person.


There's many times where I come back and read what I've said at a later time and hope to graces I didn't come off like a douche bag or put someone down. I've been failing at that miserably lately and it's been... to be honest ... eating me up big time.

I don't think anyone truly understands what this site means to me and also with that, I think the site means more than it should to me.
Pack93z  
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:04:56 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Anytime someones opinions are treated as a lesser.. especially by the site owner/leader, people are going to disrespect and most will just leave.


I never ever EVER intend to belittle or demoralize or put down ones opinion. I'm one of the first to say, let's hear your OPINION, that's something I love. I greatly enjoy diverse opinions, such as dhazer's hatred for Ted, Mike and Aaron. I believe once you stopped caring about others opinions, you fail to grow as a person.


There's many times where I come back and read what I've said at a later time and hope to graces I didn't come off like a douche bag or put someone down. I've been failing at that miserably lately and it's been... to be honest ... eating me up big time.

I don't think anyone truly understands what this site means to me and also with that, I think the site means more than it should to me.


I think you might have taken that incorrectly.. I don't think it is by intent.. more by misreading the intent. And for the record.. I am guilty of it many a time.. not getting my intended meaning passed successfully off to the readers.

That correlates to the 99.99999%... because sometimes I truly just irk the shit out of you. ;)
Nonstopdrivel  
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:31:46 PM(UTC)
You know what I like about this site? More people here have gotten me to admit I was wrong about something than everywhere else in the world combined.

I learn a lot here.
Tezzy  
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:38:10 PM(UTC)
Think of the children!

[img_l]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/5393624965_a4c2cb1bc8.jpg[/img_l]
Wade  
#16 Posted : Friday, January 28, 2011 12:08:43 AM(UTC)
I guess I see you, Kevin, is as a bit of a mad scientist with a vision for what the perfect site is, and you just love to tinker with it to make it a little better. And since it's never perfect, you just keep trying new things.

Mostly that doesn't bother me....Edison's successful light bulb was version number 1500 or something like that. Occasionally its a bit annoying, since your change sometimes affects one of the bits I especially like as is. But mostly, it's part of what makes the site what it is for me. And I've never doubted that this site is a deep, deep passion for you.

Few are the places that tolerate such an odd sort of asshole with weird ideas like me.

Maybe it's because I'm still a (relative) newbie, but I've never been close to mad enough to want to leave. Short of you deciding to get rid of the "random babble" forum, I can't imagine leaving voluntarily.

I'm addicted to all you bastards.

(including you, Foster, so if you decide to hop in and quietly observe....get your butt and your silly striped blue pants back in here.)
68md  
#17 Posted : Friday, January 28, 2011 1:03:29 AM(UTC)
Zero,
I understand were your coming from because I go through it every day. Tinkered and added...wanted this to do this and everything just right.
Moved things 3 times etc....this season I said screw it ! No upgrades or changes !
Best thing I ever did....... do you want your site to be better ? Damn straight but you can and will go insane chasing that elephant and it's not worth it.

The other thing you should consider is bringing your mods back. Let them moderate and take care of business while you go about administrating the forum.
At any rate you run one hell of a site don't go anywhere !

PS To the members here: Folks cleaning of the shoutbox should be done daily as it will and can bog down a site. Have seen it on just about all forum software. About keeping the site running not Zero being an a-hole.
vikesrule  
#18 Posted : Friday, January 28, 2011 2:59:28 AM(UTC)
Like Shawn, I too was going to refrain from commenting on this. But alas, I can not.
I shall claim my right as an elder to say my piece.

Dave, there are some people in this world that I admire, and some that I respect. There are not very many that I can say "I both admire and respect" You are one of those very few.
I am not going to ask you to reconsider, and I am not going to ask anyone to change. For to do so would go against my core beliefs.

Years ago I joined a Packers Fan forum with the basic intent of "giving shit" to stupid cheeseheads. I was pretty much a dickhead at first (I know some think I still am).
Anyway, as time went by, I got to know some of the people. Slowly at first but then I came to the realization that there was something truly unique with these folks.
It was not just about football, something that I could not quite fathom at first, something that I could not quite put my finger on.
It was that there was true passion for life, the jokes, the arguing, the shared feelings (good and bad). And before I knew it, I felt true friendship with many.

I've watched Z2C grow in many ways over the years. He has overcome much adversity in his young life. Some of his own making, and some were the hand he was dealt But he has grown.
Does he still have room to grow as a person? Hell yes....as do we all. I"m somewhat "chronologically challenged" and I still have much yet to learn and not a lot of time to do it.
However, I shall strive to continue to learn and grow until the day that they plant me.

We all make mistakes, it is what makes us human. God knows that I have made my share over these many years.

Argue, get pissed off, perhaps take a break from things. But there is one thought that I would like to leave you with....

Relish everyday that you have, savor all that life gives you, good or bad. For our time to enjoy these joys and pains that come our way in this thing that is life....are fleeting indeed.





Oh ya,....and in keeping with my usual persona.... and in an attempt to lighten your mood......................so endeth my attempt to blow sunshine up your ass.
DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Friday, January 28, 2011 4:01:23 AM(UTC)
Say it ain't so Gunny! I'll be nice to everybody, I promise!
Dulak  
#20 Posted : Friday, January 28, 2011 10:11:55 AM(UTC)
my 2 cents -

I like this forum because of the decent folk here and all the different personalities. There also appears to be less numbskulls (idiots); and less stupid things posted.

I also appreciate some of the more candid conversations; even thou they may be a bit biased at times; and actually enjoy going back and forth throwing out some of my biases also ...

and one of my favorite things is to watch the games with all you guys; the live feed is awesome also. IMO the game is 3x better when I can watch it live with cool fellow packers fans.



as far as moderating and censoring different things on the site; obviously its up to the site owner (kevin) etc ...

IMO sometimes there may 'need' to be some threads where the owner doesnt necessarily want to talk about but other people do ... like people already stated the people is what makes this site great.

So ya this stuff about brent favre ... ya I dont really care to talk about him so much either; and honestly I dont want to talk about him when it comes to the SB and really dont want to hear the announces try to compare rodgers to him during the game - 2 totally different teams. A player doesnt make a team; its 102 or 120 man (including all the coaches IR etc ...)

anyways ... point is I would let the people that want to chat away about favre or wtfe - and IMO if there are posts that are rude and disrespectful to others then ya I think they (the posts) or the people should go; but like I mentioned I do not see much of that here; hence why I am here.

...
thanks to everyone for a great meeting place to discuss the packers; and of course to the people that have put together this site (kevin and anyone else).
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