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warhawk  
#61 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 7:36:47 PM(UTC)
I see McCarthy in a catch twenty two here. The line has not performed consistantly yet the main concern with changing personnel is how it will affect the consistancy of the overall line play.

There is a term called chopping off your nose to spite your face and I have a feeling McCarthy is fully aware of who he might replace with whom and the risk that these moves could actually make the situation worse.

I know 93 that "plodding along hoping it will get better" is not a fan's best solution and more drastic measures may better satisfy their appetite for some blood letting to vent that frustration. I understand that.

I remember a couple of years back when we were blown out a couple of games in a row and people wanted guys cut and Sanders fired and McCarthy stuck with the same guys and they had a great second half of the year. Who knows what would have happened if he had gotten trigger happy?

It's a huge disappointment the "0" line has not done a better job thus far and not many could see that coming considering the success they had the second half of last year bringing the run game around like that.

This is a big dilehma for Mac and there is no easy fix for it.

What's needed is for these guys to get their heads out of their butts and start playing like they know how to and worry about whose still around next year next year.
Pack93z  
#62 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 7:47:18 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post

What's needed is for these guys to get their heads out of their butts and start playing like they know how to and worry about whose still around next year next year.


Exactly..

All I am saying, we are seeing the exact same issues with basically the same personnel in the third year of the coaching/system... something isn't functioning like it should.

I miss a guy like Larry Beightol right now.. he was a hell of a line coach that just wasn't afford much in terms of depth.. but he developed a number of solid players.

Lack of development is really my ax to grind here.. and why I am "down" on the position coaches.. we haven't seen a single player grow along that line.. not one..


Edit... take that back.. Spitz is becoming a solid NFL guard.. so one. ;)
Zero2Cool  
#63 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 8:45:20 PM(UTC)
There's a big difference with that year and this year. Those players now have experience under their belt and are still not performing.

A change on the OL is obviously needed. I'm not saying an overhaul, but a single move could make a huge difference.

Sometimes shaking things up a bit is just what needs to be done.
longtimefan  
#64 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 9:01:00 PM(UTC)
I am not going over ever post to see if this is there

talking bout the last series before the fg attempt




Quote:

On Ryan Grant's two carries, the Packers used an I-formation with two tight ends and one wide receiver. Although the Packers do pass from it, that personnel grouping is designed to run against a defense that has been almost impervious to the run for 2 years.

"I guess I was a little surprised maybe that they were in 'U' personnel (two tight ends)," said Childress, now 1-5 against McCarthy. "I like my chances with my run defense when people get in two tight ends and want to pound the ball for positioning. Yeah, I'd rather see that."

One of Childress' veteran players, linebacker Ben Leber, appeared almost stunned.

"I thought they were going to try to get the ball closer," Leber said. "That's what I think most teams would do in that situation. Maybe they thought they were going to catch us off guard."
dfosterf  
#65 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 9:02:49 PM(UTC)
I'd sure like to throw 2 young guards into the mix.

Duke Robinson-- Oklahoma-- 6'5" 330 lbs. Could be there when we pick in 1st round.

Herman Johnson---LSU--- 6'7" 349lbs. Could be there when we pick in the 2nd round.

I know there is a draft thread, but I'm having a really bad Monday and would just like to throw this into this thread to make me feel better... ZBS trumped by good meat and potato linemen. Sorry for the thread diversion, but I WANT O LINEMEN... real ones.. not ZBSers.
DGB454  
#66 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 9:34:06 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
In my humble opinion, we are back to the days of Lindy Infante and Tom Braatz. Its time for this discussion to turn to the probability that we need to clean house and get a new GM and head coach, and that has nothng to do with the Favre Fiasco BTW. It has everything to do with the performance of the aforementioned individuala and their records. Ted Thompson and his west coast BS have been a disaster which didn't show itself last year but is now.

Trying to pinch nickles and hiring a coach who doesn't learn from week to week are killing us. Maybe Favre was right; we should be looking to Mooch to bail us out here.


Just like he did for the Lions.
Packnic  
#67 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 10:17:23 PM(UTC)
Just like hes doing for the team that he currently works for. oh wait the other 32 GMs don't think so either.

And I also love that you don't think Mooch got a fair chance with Lions, but think 3 years is plenty of time for Mike McCarthy and TT.

I love guys who sit at home on computers and pretend to know more about the inner workings of the NFL than the guy that gets paid to run the team.

Damnit Mason Crosby.... couldn't you just have hit that kick then all this would go away. Ted Thompson would be a genius and Mike McCarthy would be talked about like a coach of the year candidate. until we lost again and then it would be OFF WITH THEIR HEADS again.
longtimefan  
#68 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 11:11:35 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post


And I also love that you don't think Mooch got a fair chance with Lions, but think 3 years is plenty of time for Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson.


.


your not talking about Oskar are you?
4PackGirl  
#69 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:59:05 AM(UTC)
LOL - i find it humorous that some are still beating up on our coach when a vikings fan said nobody outcoaches childress - ever.

i also find it humorous that oskar has brought up infante & the 80's - you're seriously in panic mode, huh? just the fact that you were a fan back then should give you a bit more clarity & calmness to the situation the team finds themselves in right now but apparently not.

newsflash - we lost some games this season that we probably coulda won & we won some games that we probably shoulda lost.

this team has been thru MORE this offseason than ANY i can recall. they held their shit together, nobody panicked, & rodgers has done a great job. patience is something that y'all have to learn.
MassPackersFan  
#70 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:15:05 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm perfectly calm, even a bit amused. The tolerance for mediocrity and error appears to be gaining its old foothold in GB again is all I'm saying. The coaching staff has the tolerance (check out Mike McCarthy's press conference: "I don't see a discipline problem") and some fans around here seem to also.

I saw too many instances of people having it even going back to the 70's; "all Bart needs is another year", "Lynn Dickey may not be able to run, but he's got a great arm", etc. Some defenders of the coaching efforts these last two games just took me down memory lane.

What do you think Lombardi's press conference would have sounded like had he been runnng the game last Sunday?

We lost to Brad Childress folks. It was that bad. Some here are saying that had Crosby made the field goal we wouldn't be having this conversation. Wrong. We had no business even having a crack at that field goal if the Vikes QB hadn't played so poorly. The truth is, the Pack made three picks, ran back a punt, and almost stole a game. Other than those picks and the punt TD; this game was a blowout.


Other than? OTHER THAN??? Other than has NO place in this conversation, because you're suddenly talking about a universe we don't live in.

I find it sad that people were so high on this team after the Colts game, and then we barely lose to a 9-0 team (now) and in the Metrodome, and it's doom and gloom. I find it sad that before the game in Minnesota, there was article after article about how the dome is a "carnival atmosphere" and they do a whole bunch of crap to try to distract you and get the noise level up, and then when we are guilty of some false starts it's "Discipline sucks, the O-line and the coaches have to go." I find it sad that we have the youngest team in the NFL, with a first year starter, we're one game out of the division lead with 7 to go, and everyone wants to hit the reset button.

This kind of negative crap is the reason I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin. I can get away from it. I only pray that we beat the Bears when I fly there next week.
Pack93z  
#71 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:27:41 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post


Other than? OTHER THAN??? Other than has NO place in this conversation, because you're suddenly talking about a universe we don't live in.

I find it sad that people were so high on this team after the Colts game, and then we barely lose to a 9-0 team (now) and in the Metrodome, and it's doom and gloom. I find it sad that before the game in Minnesota, there was article after article about how the dome is a "carnival atmosphere" and they do a whole bunch of crap to try to distract you and get the noise level up, and then when we are guilty of some false starts it's "Discipline sucks, the O-line and the coaches have to go." I find it sad that we have the youngest team in the NFL, with a first year starter, we're one game out of the division lead with 7 to go, and everyone wants to hit the reset button.

This kind of negative crap is the reason I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin. I can get away from it. I only pray that we beat the Bears when I fly there next week.


I can't talk for everyone else, but I am not in that Doom and Gloom stage.. and really not down on the Packers team in general. Despite our flaws we have played with a chance to win in every game but one this season in the final possession.

That speaks volumes about the talent and ability to coach this team.

Alas.. it becomes very apparent that we have a couple of areas of concern on this team, one for more than a season or two, that aren't being improved upon.

I honestly don't see why it is so hyper sensitive of a topic to offer criticism upon the areas of concern. When done with tact and within reason.. I truly believe it is legitimate topics of conversation.

I am hardly a negative person, but when I see flaws in which we continue week upon week, or even season upon season that needs to be correct.. heck yes that is legitimate chatter.

We have been a leader in penalties this season.. we have a sieve of a run defense and our offensive line continues to be a mixed bag of results...

I love this team.. probably too much..
MassPackersFan  
#72 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:29:49 PM(UTC)
I agree with you about the problems. I disagree that we need any huge personnel changes at this point, or that we are as hopeless as the teams of the 80's. The legitimate criticism is getting lost in the doom&gloom chatter, unfortunately.
IronMan  
#73 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:31:45 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post


Other than? OTHER THAN??? Other than has NO place in this conversation, because you're suddenly talking about a universe we don't live in.

I find it sad that people were so high on this team after the Colts game, and then we barely lose to a 9-0 team (now) and in the Metrodome, and it's doom and gloom. I find it sad that before the game in Minnesota, there was article after article about how the dome is a "carnival atmosphere" and they do a whole bunch of crap to try to distract you and get the noise level up, and then when we are guilty of some false starts it's "Discipline sucks, the O-line and the coaches have to go." I find it sad that we have the youngest team in the NFL, with a first year starter, we're one game out of the division lead with 7 to go, and everyone wants to hit the reset button.

This kind of negative crap is the reason I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin. I can get away from it. I only pray that we beat the Bears when I fly there next week.


I can't talk for everyone else, but I am not in that Doom and Gloom stage.. and really not down on the Packers team in general. Despite our flaws we have played with a chance to win in every game but one this season in the final possession.

That speaks volumes about the talent and ability to coach this team.

Alas.. it becomes very apparent that we have a couple of areas of concern on this team, one for more than a season or two, that aren't being improved upon.

I honestly don't see why it is so hyper sensitive of a topic to offer criticism upon the areas of concern. When done with tact and within reason.. I truly believe it is legitimate topics of conversation.

I am hardly a negative person, but when I see flaws in which we continue week upon week, or even season upon season that needs to be correct.. heck yes that is legitimate chatter.

We have been a leader in penalties this season.. we have a sieve of a run defense and our offensive line continues to be a mixed bag of results...

I love this team.. probably too much..

Don't you get it Pack93z? If you criticize anyone associated with the Packers, that means you are a fair weather fan that thinks everyone should be fired.
MassPackersFan  
#74 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:33:36 PM(UTC)
I'm clearly not referring to you if you were not the ones who were saying the coaches/players have to go/be benched.
And frankly, I don't see why we can't disagree with such a drastically negative judgment on the players and coaches.
IronMan  
#75 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:43:14 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm clearly not referring to you if you were not the ones who were saying the coaches/players have to go/be benched.
And frankly, I don't see why we can't disagree with such a drastically negative judgment on the players and coaches.

No one on this board said McCarthy should be fired. Not one person. LOL damn.
Pack93z  
#76 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:43:43 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
[strike]I'm clearly not referring to you if you were not the ones who were saying the coaches/players have to go/be benched.[/strike]
And frankly, I don't see why we can't disagree with such a drastically negative judgment on the players and coaches.


I have no problem with disagreeing upon opinions and judgment, but when the wand of "Doom and Gloom" gets cast upon the entire state of Wisconsin.. ya.. I probably will respond.

There are a hell of a lot more positives on this team than negatives.. we have depth and we are in every ballgame for the most part..

But challenges that go unchecked.. are ripe for the picking.. especially when improving any one of them, probably would result in a couple more win notched in the W column.

And if one has the opinion they have seen this before.. then so be it. But I disagree with the notion that it is the late 80's syndrome, back then under Harlan, we had no consistent plan for year to year management of the roster.. every spring it was like Madden.. what can we do this year.. no vision upon the next 3.

Infante was a decent coach.. but we were mighty thin in depth and made some critical errors in drafting.. back then, the draft was the only way to build a team.. if you missed there.. you paid for it year after year.
longtimefan  
#77 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:55:38 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm perfectly calm, even a bit amused. The tolerance for mediocrity and error appears to be gaining its old foothold in GB again is all I'm saying. The coaching staff has the tolerance (check out Mike McCarthy's press conference: "I don't see a discipline problem") and some fans around here seem to also.

I saw too many instances of people having it even going back to the 70's; "all Bart needs is another year", "Lynn Dickey may not be able to run, but he's got a great arm", etc. Some defenders of the coaching efforts these last two games just took me down memory lane.

What do you think Lombardi's press conference would have sounded like had he been runnng the game last Sunday?

We lost to Brad Childress folks. It was that bad. Some here are saying that had Crosby made the field goal we wouldn't be having this conversation. Wrong. We had no business even having a crack at that field goal if the Vikes QB hadn't played so poorly. The truth is, the Pack made three picks, ran back a punt, and almost stole a game. Other than those picks and the punt TD; this game was a blowout.



1998
Minnesota Vikings 28,
Green Bay Packers 14


1999
Minnesota Vikings 24,
Green Bay Packers 20


2001
Minnesota Vikings 35,
Green Bay Packers 13

2002
Minnesota Vikings 31,
Green Bay Packers 21
MassPackersFan  
#78 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:56:54 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm clearly not referring to you if you were not the ones who were saying the coaches/players have to go/be benched.
And frankly, I don't see why we can't disagree with such a drastically negative judgment on the players and coaches.

No one on this board said McCarthy should be fired. Not one person. LOL damn.


" said: Go to Quoted Post
In my humble opinion, we are back to the days of Lindy Infante and Tom Braatz. Its time for this discussion to turn to the probability that we need to clean house and get a new GM and head coach, and that has nothng to do with the Favre Fiasco BTW. It has everything to do with the performance of the aforementioned individuala and their records. Ted Thompson and his west coast BS have been a disaster which didn't show itself last year but is now.

Trying to pinch nickles and hiring a coach who doesn't learn from week to week are killing us. Maybe Favre was right; we should be looking to Mooch to bail us out here.


Yeah. And by the way, SAME person I originally quoted before all of you others got defensive.
MassPackersFan  
#79 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:57:22 PM(UTC)
DP
Pack93z  
#80 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:02:53 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post

Yeah. And by the way, SAME person I originally quoted before all of you others got defensive.


You say defensive.. I say clarification.
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