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Offline Packnic  
#51 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 3:54:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
if Mike McCarthy doesn't kick each of their collective asses this week & penalties don't get cleaned up, we're screwed!

He won't. But he will tell us "it can be fixed." :thumbright:



Fire Mike McCarthy.

Troll.



I'm not trying to be a troll dude. But calling out a coach because he lost one game out of the last 6 to a team... isn't really fair.

we have owned them recently under Mike McCarthy and we just lost this one by a point. It's not the end of the world.
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Offline IronMan  
#52 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 3:57:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
if Mike McCarthy doesn't kick each of their collective asses this week & penalties don't get cleaned up, we're screwed!

He won't. But he will tell us "it can be fixed." :thumbright:



Fire Mike McCarthy.

Troll.



I'm not trying to be a troll dude. But calling out a coach because he lost one game out of the last 6 to a team... isn't really fair.

we have owned them recently under Mike McCarthy and we just lost this one by a point. It's not the end of the world.

Im calling out the coach because we continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. In case you didnt know, we lead the league in penalties. That is a coaching problem. I know you think Mike McCarthy is above criticism but he isn't.
Offline Pack93z  
#53 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 4:05:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
if Mike McCarthy doesn't kick each of their collective asses this week & penalties don't get cleaned up, we're screwed!

He won't. But he will tell us "it can be fixed." :thumbright:



Fire Mike McCarthy.

Troll.



I'm not trying to be a troll dude. But calling out a coach because he lost one game out of the last 6 to a team... isn't really fair.

we have owned them recently under Mike McCarthy and we just lost this one by a point. It's not the end of the world.


Agreed to a point.. I think as yooper put it someplace.. the honeymoon is over.. offering up the same lame and basic lines week in and out isn't cutting it with me and others..

I don't want to hear that it will be fixed, I want to see that it has been fixed, consistently. No more of this jacking a player up one week, getting results and then laying a freaking egg the next week.. 3 years has been more than enough time to get past that stage. Something is broken.. and I don't believe it is all on the players along the offensive line..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Packnic  
#54 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 4:26:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
if Mike McCarthy doesn't kick each of their collective asses this week & penalties don't get cleaned up, we're screwed!

He won't. But he will tell us "it can be fixed." :thumbright:



Fire Mike McCarthy.

Troll.



I'm not trying to be a troll dude. But calling out a coach because he lost one game out of the last 6 to a team... isn't really fair.

we have owned them recently under Mike McCarthy and we just lost this one by a point. It's not the end of the world.

Im calling out the coach because we continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. In case you didnt know, we lead the league in penalties. That is a coaching problem. I know you think Mike McCarthy is above criticism but he isn't.


I hardly think he is above criticism. His challenge on the AP touchdown for instance was one of the dumber and more desperate looking things i've seen him do. and the penalties are definetely a problem that this young team needs to fix. We have also been in these games at the end against good football teams and that deserves just as much credit as blame. I also realize that we have been down before and hes gotten the team back up. So you saying that he will tell us one thing and not do it is unfair.

and like he just said in his presser... we all want to swing far to the right when we win and far to left when we lose. you cant do that.

and there are few coaches id have above him and i think you feel the same.
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Offline warhawk  
#55 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 4:54:30 PM(UTC)
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I don't know how coaches get blamed for penalties anymore than if a guy just whiffs on a block. It boils down to the same basic fundamentals and god knows Mike McCarty constantly preaches them.

If a guy holds it's because he's gotten beat which is because he isn't sound in his mechanics so what's the difference between that and just getting beat on a block?

Nobody here has any idea how much time the coaching staff spends on basic fundamentals and therefore pinning the penalty problem on the coaches is just barking up the wrong tree.

Like #73 hasn't been taught by coaches what the damn difference is between holding and not holding. Of course he knows. Now if he's out there on the field and the other guy is beating him and he holds how the heck does that fall to the coaches?

Like they don't go over and over plays all week long and a guy jumps the count for an illegal procedure. I suppose the coach gets a ding for that too, eh? Rediculous if you ask me.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline IronMan  
#56 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 4:58:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Like #73 hasn't been taught by coaches what the damn difference is between holding and not holding. Of course he knows. Now if he's out there on the field and the other guy is beating him and he holds how the heck does that fall to the coaches?
.

Because the coaches continue to let it happen.

Heres how it works:

You screw up over and over and over and over and over and over again, you lose your job. You dont keep sending the same players out there to make the same mistakes. Why does no one understand this. Pull your heads out of the ground people. WOW.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#57 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 5:02:17 PM(UTC)
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O-line is a little different there. You can't just bring in someone from the street. Scheme and cohesiveness are key. One reason we used to have such a good O-line is because they played together for so long. So you're left with a battle on the team, and I'm sure they are judged not just by in-game play (that would only grade the people getting game time) but practice play as well.

Saying that, something needs to be done. I don't know what it is yet, but we need improvement on the O-line or our season is over.
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Offline Pack93z  
#58 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 5:08:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I don't know how coaches get blamed for penalties anymore than if a guy just whiffs on a block. It boils down to the same basic fundamentals and god knows Mike McCarty constantly preaches them.

If a guy holds it's because he's gotten beat which is because he isn't sound in his mechanics so what's the difference between that and just getting beat on a block?

Nobody here has any idea how much time the coaching staff spends on basic fundamentals and therefore pinning the penalty problem on the coaches is just barking up the wrong tree.

Like #73 hasn't been taught by coaches what the damn difference is between holding and not holding. Of course he knows. Now if he's out there on the field and the other guy is beating him and he holds how the heck does that fall to the coaches?

Like they don't go over and over plays all week long and a guy jumps the count for an illegal procedure. I suppose the coach gets a ding for that too, eh? Rediculous if you ask me.


While I agree that the coaches can't be held responsible for the players stupidity upon the field, it is their responsibility to enforce the accountability upon the players and change their behavior.

So in my opinion, the same basic 5 players have been playing for the better part of 3 years together and we see the same mistakes weekly.. there is a problem someplace.

So it is either the players don't have the talent or the coaching staff isn't putting the correct players into the positions to be successful.

Either way, in year three, we shouldn't be having the same basic fundamental lapses.. weekly. If this collection of players along the oline don't have what it takes, it is the coaches responsibility to express that upon the head coach and GM.. in turn they need to get them players that can execute their plans.

We added two rookies to the mix.. nothing more.. speaks volumes on their thoughts of the talent level.

Add to this, we have issues in stunt and blitz pickups yet.. year three... something is amiss.. so whom should we be pleading with to get this happy horseshit cleaned up?

The accountability falls upon the players and/ or the coaches.. we know the players can do it, they do at times with various levels of competition.. they just can't do it consistently.. that there leads me to point at the position coaches and a lack of preparation and focus of the players.

Coach'em up or ship them out.. one of the two. Not plod along hoping for the best.

As far as not knowing what they teach them or work on during practice... you are right, I have no idea of the weekly breakdowns in practice routines.. but I can tell you one thing.. weekly this group doesn't look prepared like and NFL offensive line should be.. consistently.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline ILikeThePackers39  
#59 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 5:20:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Like #73 hasn't been taught by coaches what the damn difference is between holding and not holding. Of course he knows. Now if he's out there on the field and the other guy is beating him and he holds how the heck does that fall to the coaches?
.

Because the coaches continue to let it happen.

Heres how it works:

You screw up over and over and over and over and over and over again, you lose your job. You dont keep sending the same players out there to make the same mistakes. Why does no one understand this. Pull your heads out of the heads people. WOW.



I'll agree with this. If what he's saying is that no. 73 is truly the best option we have at that position, then someone needs to answer for that. I don't think it's true, but I sure can't explain why dude starts every damn game at this point.

At this point people on that front line need to have the fear of unemployment put in their hearts.
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Offline Cheesey  
#60 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 5:58:58 PM(UTC)
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Not enough talent on the O-line.
Pretty simple answer, but hard to fix if you don't have the players on your roster to "fix" it.
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Offline warhawk  
#61 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 7:36:47 PM(UTC)
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I see McCarthy in a catch twenty two here. The line has not performed consistantly yet the main concern with changing personnel is how it will affect the consistancy of the overall line play.

There is a term called chopping off your nose to spite your face and I have a feeling McCarthy is fully aware of who he might replace with whom and the risk that these moves could actually make the situation worse.

I know 93 that "plodding along hoping it will get better" is not a fan's best solution and more drastic measures may better satisfy their appetite for some blood letting to vent that frustration. I understand that.

I remember a couple of years back when we were blown out a couple of games in a row and people wanted guys cut and Sanders fired and McCarthy stuck with the same guys and they had a great second half of the year. Who knows what would have happened if he had gotten trigger happy?

It's a huge disappointment the "0" line has not done a better job thus far and not many could see that coming considering the success they had the second half of last year bringing the run game around like that.

This is a big dilehma for Mac and there is no easy fix for it.

What's needed is for these guys to get their heads out of their butts and start playing like they know how to and worry about whose still around next year next year.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline Pack93z  
#62 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 7:47:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

What's needed is for these guys to get their heads out of their butts and start playing like they know how to and worry about whose still around next year next year.


Exactly..

All I am saying, we are seeing the exact same issues with basically the same personnel in the third year of the coaching/system... something isn't functioning like it should.

I miss a guy like Larry Beightol right now.. he was a hell of a line coach that just wasn't afford much in terms of depth.. but he developed a number of solid players.

Lack of development is really my ax to grind here.. and why I am "down" on the position coaches.. we haven't seen a single player grow along that line.. not one..


Edit... take that back.. Spitz is becoming a solid NFL guard.. so one. ;)
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#63 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 8:45:20 PM(UTC)
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There's a big difference with that year and this year. Those players now have experience under their belt and are still not performing.

A change on the OL is obviously needed. I'm not saying an overhaul, but a single move could make a huge difference.

Sometimes shaking things up a bit is just what needs to be done.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline longtimefan  
#64 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 9:01:00 PM(UTC)
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I am not going over ever post to see if this is there

talking bout the last series before the fg attempt




Quote:

On Ryan Grant's two carries, the Packers used an I-formation with two tight ends and one wide receiver. Although the Packers do pass from it, that personnel grouping is designed to run against a defense that has been almost impervious to the run for 2 years.

"I guess I was a little surprised maybe that they were in 'U' personnel (two tight ends)," said Childress, now 1-5 against McCarthy. "I like my chances with my run defense when people get in two tight ends and want to pound the ball for positioning. Yeah, I'd rather see that."

One of Childress' veteran players, linebacker Ben Leber, appeared almost stunned.

"I thought they were going to try to get the ball closer," Leber said. "That's what I think most teams would do in that situation. Maybe they thought they were going to catch us off guard."
Offline dfosterf  
#65 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 9:02:49 PM(UTC)
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I'd sure like to throw 2 young guards into the mix.

Duke Robinson-- Oklahoma-- 6'5" 330 lbs. Could be there when we pick in 1st round.

Herman Johnson---LSU--- 6'7" 349lbs. Could be there when we pick in the 2nd round.

I know there is a draft thread, but I'm having a really bad Monday and would just like to throw this into this thread to make me feel better... ZBS trumped by good meat and potato linemen. Sorry for the thread diversion, but I WANT O LINEMEN... real ones.. not ZBSers.
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline DGB454  
#66 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 9:34:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
In my humble opinion, we are back to the days of Lindy Infante and Tom Braatz. Its time for this discussion to turn to the probability that we need to clean house and get a new GM and head coach, and that has nothng to do with the Favre Fiasco BTW. It has everything to do with the performance of the aforementioned individuala and their records. Ted Thompson and his west coast BS have been a disaster which didn't show itself last year but is now.

Trying to pinch nickles and hiring a coach who doesn't learn from week to week are killing us. Maybe Favre was right; we should be looking to Mooch to bail us out here.


Just like he did for the Lions.
Offline Packnic  
#67 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 10:17:23 PM(UTC)
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Just like hes doing for the team that he currently works for. oh wait the other 32 GMs don't think so either.

And I also love that you don't think Mooch got a fair chance with Lions, but think 3 years is plenty of time for Mike McCarthy and TT.

I love guys who sit at home on computers and pretend to know more about the inner workings of the NFL than the guy that gets paid to run the team.

Damnit Mason Crosby.... couldn't you just have hit that kick then all this would go away. Ted Thompson would be a genius and Mike McCarthy would be talked about like a coach of the year candidate. until we lost again and then it would be OFF WITH THEIR HEADS again.
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Offline longtimefan  
#68 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2008 11:11:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


And I also love that you don't think Mooch got a fair chance with Lions, but think 3 years is plenty of time for Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson.


.


your not talking about Oskar are you?
Offline 4PackGirl  
#69 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:59:05 AM(UTC)
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LOL - i find it humorous that some are still beating up on our coach when a vikings fan said nobody outcoaches childress - ever.

i also find it humorous that oskar has brought up infante & the 80's - you're seriously in panic mode, huh? just the fact that you were a fan back then should give you a bit more clarity & calmness to the situation the team finds themselves in right now but apparently not.

newsflash - we lost some games this season that we probably coulda won & we won some games that we probably shoulda lost.

this team has been thru MORE this offseason than ANY i can recall. they held their shit together, nobody panicked, & rodgers has done a great job. patience is something that y'all have to learn.
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Offline MassPackersFan  
#70 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:15:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I'm perfectly calm, even a bit amused. The tolerance for mediocrity and error appears to be gaining its old foothold in GB again is all I'm saying. The coaching staff has the tolerance (check out Mike McCarthy's press conference: "I don't see a discipline problem") and some fans around here seem to also.

I saw too many instances of people having it even going back to the 70's; "all Bart needs is another year", "Lynn Dickey may not be able to run, but he's got a great arm", etc. Some defenders of the coaching efforts these last two games just took me down memory lane.

What do you think Lombardi's press conference would have sounded like had he been runnng the game last Sunday?

We lost to Brad Childress folks. It was that bad. Some here are saying that had Crosby made the field goal we wouldn't be having this conversation. Wrong. We had no business even having a crack at that field goal if the Vikes QB hadn't played so poorly. The truth is, the Pack made three picks, ran back a punt, and almost stole a game. Other than those picks and the punt TD; this game was a blowout.


Other than? OTHER THAN??? Other than has NO place in this conversation, because you're suddenly talking about a universe we don't live in.

I find it sad that people were so high on this team after the Colts game, and then we barely lose to a 9-0 team (now) and in the Metrodome, and it's doom and gloom. I find it sad that before the game in Minnesota, there was article after article about how the dome is a "carnival atmosphere" and they do a whole bunch of crap to try to distract you and get the noise level up, and then when we are guilty of some false starts it's "Discipline sucks, the O-line and the coaches have to go." I find it sad that we have the youngest team in the NFL, with a first year starter, we're one game out of the division lead with 7 to go, and everyone wants to hit the reset button.

This kind of negative crap is the reason I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin. I can get away from it. I only pray that we beat the Bears when I fly there next week.
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Offline Pack93z  
#71 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:27:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Other than? OTHER THAN??? Other than has NO place in this conversation, because you're suddenly talking about a universe we don't live in.

I find it sad that people were so high on this team after the Colts game, and then we barely lose to a 9-0 team (now) and in the Metrodome, and it's doom and gloom. I find it sad that before the game in Minnesota, there was article after article about how the dome is a "carnival atmosphere" and they do a whole bunch of crap to try to distract you and get the noise level up, and then when we are guilty of some false starts it's "Discipline sucks, the O-line and the coaches have to go." I find it sad that we have the youngest team in the NFL, with a first year starter, we're one game out of the division lead with 7 to go, and everyone wants to hit the reset button.

This kind of negative crap is the reason I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin. I can get away from it. I only pray that we beat the Bears when I fly there next week.


I can't talk for everyone else, but I am not in that Doom and Gloom stage.. and really not down on the Packers team in general. Despite our flaws we have played with a chance to win in every game but one this season in the final possession.

That speaks volumes about the talent and ability to coach this team.

Alas.. it becomes very apparent that we have a couple of areas of concern on this team, one for more than a season or two, that aren't being improved upon.

I honestly don't see why it is so hyper sensitive of a topic to offer criticism upon the areas of concern. When done with tact and within reason.. I truly believe it is legitimate topics of conversation.

I am hardly a negative person, but when I see flaws in which we continue week upon week, or even season upon season that needs to be correct.. heck yes that is legitimate chatter.

We have been a leader in penalties this season.. we have a sieve of a run defense and our offensive line continues to be a mixed bag of results...

I love this team.. probably too much..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline MassPackersFan  
#72 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:29:49 PM(UTC)
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I agree with you about the problems. I disagree that we need any huge personnel changes at this point, or that we are as hopeless as the teams of the 80's. The legitimate criticism is getting lost in the doom&gloom chatter, unfortunately.
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Offline IronMan  
#73 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:31:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Other than? OTHER THAN??? Other than has NO place in this conversation, because you're suddenly talking about a universe we don't live in.

I find it sad that people were so high on this team after the Colts game, and then we barely lose to a 9-0 team (now) and in the Metrodome, and it's doom and gloom. I find it sad that before the game in Minnesota, there was article after article about how the dome is a "carnival atmosphere" and they do a whole bunch of crap to try to distract you and get the noise level up, and then when we are guilty of some false starts it's "Discipline sucks, the O-line and the coaches have to go." I find it sad that we have the youngest team in the NFL, with a first year starter, we're one game out of the division lead with 7 to go, and everyone wants to hit the reset button.

This kind of negative crap is the reason I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin. I can get away from it. I only pray that we beat the Bears when I fly there next week.


I can't talk for everyone else, but I am not in that Doom and Gloom stage.. and really not down on the Packers team in general. Despite our flaws we have played with a chance to win in every game but one this season in the final possession.

That speaks volumes about the talent and ability to coach this team.

Alas.. it becomes very apparent that we have a couple of areas of concern on this team, one for more than a season or two, that aren't being improved upon.

I honestly don't see why it is so hyper sensitive of a topic to offer criticism upon the areas of concern. When done with tact and within reason.. I truly believe it is legitimate topics of conversation.

I am hardly a negative person, but when I see flaws in which we continue week upon week, or even season upon season that needs to be correct.. heck yes that is legitimate chatter.

We have been a leader in penalties this season.. we have a sieve of a run defense and our offensive line continues to be a mixed bag of results...

I love this team.. probably too much..

Don't you get it Pack93z? If you criticize anyone associated with the Packers, that means you are a fair weather fan that thinks everyone should be fired.
Offline MassPackersFan  
#74 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:33:36 PM(UTC)
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I'm clearly not referring to you if you were not the ones who were saying the coaches/players have to go/be benched.
And frankly, I don't see why we can't disagree with such a drastically negative judgment on the players and coaches.
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Offline IronMan  
#75 Posted : Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:43:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I'm clearly not referring to you if you were not the ones who were saying the coaches/players have to go/be benched.
And frankly, I don't see why we can't disagree with such a drastically negative judgment on the players and coaches.

No one on this board said McCarthy should be fired. Not one person. LOL damn.
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