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Offline musccy  
#1 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:19:32 PM(UTC)
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They didn't affect the outcome of the game and I'm not trying to start a horrible officiating thread here, just some curiosities.

Swain Drop: Everyone seemed to agree this wasn't a catch, but what about it wasn't a catch? I used to think 2 feet and a football move = catch, and my take through my green 'n gold glasses saw him twist 180 degrees, get two feet down and move up field before the ball was jostled loose.

Collins' Celebration: This wasn't explained much, but it looked like flags were thrown just as he got to his knees in the back of the endzone. I don't even know what the letter of the law is, but I can assure you that my TD celebration at my apt. was 100 times more exuberant than his! He just pick 6'd and put the Packers up 14 in the Super Bowl, give him some leeway.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:24:02 PM(UTC)
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The commentators were all saying they thought the Swain drop was a catch, and the more I watched the replays, the more I was inclined to agree with them. I think it should have been ruled a fumble recovered by Jennings.

And can anyone explain to me why the NFL sees a substantive difference between kneeling on one knee versus kneeling on two knees in the end zone? Both can be expressions of prayer or exultation. It makes no sense.
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Offline musccy  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:25:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The commentators were all saying they thought the Swain drop was a catch, and the more I watched the replays, the more I was inclined to agree with them. I think it should have been ruled a fumble recovered by Jennings.


Aikman, Periera (sp?) and Buck all felt it was a drop, as did ESPN after the game.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:26:50 PM(UTC)
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I was watching ESPN America. Different set of commentators.
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Offline Pack93z  
#5 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:28:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The commentators were all saying they thought the Swain drop was a catch, and the more I watched the replays, the more I was inclined to agree with them. I think it should have been ruled a fumble recovered by Jennings.


Don't know which broadcast you watched.. but they were in the camp it wasn't a catch. *edit.. your above response posted during my reply.

I am sorry.. this is one of the areas the NFL needs to scrub this season.. defining a catch and taking out this nonsense of a football move in its definition.

By the rules established today.. it is a judgment what a football move is.

IMO.. two feet down with established possession is a catch.

IMO.. Swain never effectively established possession cleanly.. and they ruled it correctly regardless of the silly and pathetic football move.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline El3ment12  
#6 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:29:32 PM(UTC)
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Well It was "bang, bang" or something. The officiating head or whatever said you should judge it real time, not in slow motion. Makes sense I guess.

And the Collins celebration was stupid to call. It gave the steelers good feild position. If we lost I would have been super pissed. Oh, and the facemask that wasn't a facemask!!!!!

It's cool though we won :)
Offline Pack93z  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:31:33 PM(UTC)
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On Collins.. he ran all the way across the endzone and was probably move for the delay (and the group) than the act itself.

Commonly players take knees.. but I think it was the circumstances in which Collins did it.

No Fun League is still in effect even on the big stage.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline musccy  
#8 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:37:27 PM(UTC)
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the facemask WAS a horrible call...but again, I'm in no way saying that affected the outcome. There were probably a few PIs the Packers could have been called for in the first half, so it all came out in the laundry, I'm bringing this up to question the RULES rather than the refs.
Offline TOPackerFan  
#9 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:40:33 PM(UTC)
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You can't "go to the ground" when celebrating a TD, with the exception being you're allowed to kneel in prayer. Stupid rule, but the right call.

I thought Swain was a catch, but that's probably only because Jennings recovered. If the Steelers had recovered, I'd have been screaming no football move therfore no catch.
Show me a good loser, I'll show you a loser - Vince
Offline longtimefan  
#10 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:40:48 PM(UTC)
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Cant use ground in celebration

Recall the huge issue with Jared Allen and his rope tie celebration after a sack?

Was told cant use a knee on the ground

Stupid as hell buts a rule
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:41:02 PM(UTC)
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It's gotten to the point where catches are defined with microscopic precision, which ironically actually muddles things up. I think the rule should basically be: If it looks like a catch, it's a catch, goddammit. It's stupid that trivialities like the ball rotating in the receiver's hand or the nose hitting the ground even though the receiver's palms are clearly under the ball can invalidate what's obviously a catch. And the whole "process of catching the ball" nonsense needs to go. Return the game to its intuitive roots instead of its legalistic paralysis.
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Offline Greg C.  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:42:07 PM(UTC)
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I was going to start an officiating thread, mostly to say that the officials did okay except for the bogus facemask call on Crabtree. But these two plays are worth discussing. I think the announcers let us down by not explaining them better.

With the Collins thing, I think somebody (maybe the official) said something about "going to the ground" as part of the celebration. I didn't know there was a rule against that. It didn't look excessive, but if there's a rule against it, they had to enforce it.

As for the Swain play, it had the look of a non-catch to me because he didn't tuck it in. I think the officials have been pretty consistent on those kinds of plays, so I wasn't mad about it, though on the other hand, it was worth challenging.

I did think that it was a pretty clean game from an officiating standpoint. Most of the penalties were false starts or obvious holds. There were no pass interference controversies, which is more a credit to the DBs than to the officials. And the personal fouls by Williams and the Steeler player were obvious.

As I said before, the Crabtree penalty looked like a blatant screw-up. It was sort of a flukey play and I can see how it may have looked like a facemask in real time, but I still say that you shouldn't call a penalty unless you actually see it--and you can't see something that didn't happen.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:42:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Cant use ground in celebration

Recall the huge issue with Jared Allen and his rope tie celebration after a sack?

Was told cant use a knee on the ground

Stupid as hell buts a rule


Correct emundo. Accurate flag, stupid rule. Kind of a running theme in the NFL. Too many rules, too much gray area.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline Greg C.  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:44:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I thought Swain was a catch, but that's probably only because Jennings recovered. If the Steelers had recovered, I'd have been screaming no football move therfore no catch.


I just gave you an applaud point for a very rare demonstration of honesty by a fan.
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Offline mi_keys  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:46:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
On Collins.. he ran all the way across the endzone and was probably move for the delay (and the group) than the act itself.

Commonly players take knees.. but I think it was the circumstances in which Collins did it.

No Fun League is still in effect even on the big stage.


What the rules say aside, how can anyone say Collins' celebration was excessive and Mendenhall's was not? It's a display of elation, it's not offensive or over the top. That should never be a penalty in any game.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:49:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
As I said before, the Crabtree penalty looked like a blatant screw-up.


A prime example of exactly the kind of officiating call that needs to be made subject to challenge. I am of the belief that any and all calls should be subject to review. It's ridiculous that such an obvious gaffe -- with such strong consequences -- can't be overturned when even a quick glance at the replay reveals it to have been wrong. That isn't even matter of a judgment call. He unambiguously did not touch the facemask.
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Offline Pack93z  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:52:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
the facemask WAS a horrible call...but again, I'm in no way saying that affected the outcome. There were probably a few PIs the Packers could have been called for in the first half, so it all came out in the laundry, I'm bringing this up to question the RULES rather than the refs.


Here is the problem.. by looks without zooming in, by the body language of the returner it looked like a facemask.. at first glace I thought it is on.

Officials are human.. and it wasn't the flagrant of a mistake.

Unless you can challenge a penalty, I don't think you can crucify the official in this call.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline musccy  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 5:54:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

What the rules say aside, how can anyone say Collins' celebration was excessive and Mendenhall's was not? It's a display of elation, it's not offensive or over the top. That should never be a penalty in any game.


I get the letter of the law, but this is like the K-State/Syracuse thing, you have to consider the moment. Honestly, I was too busy running around my apartment screaming at the top of my lungs to see there was a flag. It was only on the kickoff, and subsequent replays of his celebration that I realized what had happened...so if I was that jubliant, how do you think the players felt?

It's a shades of grey issue, but c'mon, you need to allow for some emotional outlet!
Offline musccy  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 6:01:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Here is the problem.. by looks without zooming in, by the body language of the returner it looked like a facemask.. at first glace I thought it is on.

Officials are human.. and it wasn't the flagrant of a mistake.

Unless you can challenge a penalty, I don't think you can crucify the official in this call.


I tried to make this point in my post that I'm not trying to question the refs in this game...I used to ref 10 year old soccer games and had soccer moms f-bomb me left and right. Hated ever second of it, and developed a new respect for what refs deal with. I'm just trying to call a spade a spade on the FM penalty (and acknowledge not an easy call) and am questioning the RULES more than anything. Letter of the law, Collins could have been flagged, it's just been a rule that has allowed for some leeway for interpretation which is my beef with it.

I'm in no way saying the refs affected the outcome. As I said, I think there were some PIs that went uncalled that worked in GB's favor.
Offline RedSoxExcel  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 7:22:34 PM(UTC)
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Who cares now, we won the Super Bowl!
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Offline TOPackerFan  
#21 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 7:28:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I thought Swain was a catch, but that's probably only because Jennings recovered. If the Steelers had recovered, I'd have been screaming no football move therfore no catch.


I just gave you an applaud point for a very rare demonstration of honesty by a fan.


It's the truth! Said pretty much the same thing to my wife during the game last night.
Show me a good loser, I'll show you a loser - Vince
Offline millertime  
#22 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 7:37:54 PM(UTC)
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Common sense tells me it was a catch.

But according to the "rules" there was some bobbling. Also, it was called incomplete on the field, so there would have to be INDISPUTABLE evidence to overturn the call (especially in a game of this magnitude).

If it was originally ruled a catch and fumble and Pittsburgh challenged it, I think they would have upheld the fumble. Just goes to show that there are still "gray areas" that the league needs to clear up in the rulebook.
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Offline TwinkieGorilla  
#23 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 7:39:49 PM(UTC)
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re: Collins

NoFunLeague indeed. ::roll:
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Twinkiegorilla.

Offline porky88  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 1:05:04 AM(UTC)
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Swain dropped the ball. I never saw possession. I saw him struggling to control the ball and you really need control. He never had control and took a step.

Hate the celebration penalty. It is the Super Bowl, so both teams deserve a little slack. God forbid you get excited because, you know, youre a human being with emotions.

The Crabtree call was awful and that was the only one that stands out.

Tramon Williams call was correct in my view. Williams needs to get away from the ball. The Steelers did what they should have and tried to make him touch it. That is on him.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 1:06:29 AM(UTC)
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Crabtree the "facemask" call?
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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