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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#11 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 1:25:18 PM(UTC)
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I think we can all agree that O.J. Simpson qualified as an "elite running back." Out of curiosity, I looked up the season records for the teams on which he played. The results were eye opening.

Code:
BUFFALO BILLS
-------------

Season  Record  Yrds    YScm
 1969   4-10-0   697    1040
 1970   3-10-1   488     647
 1971   1-13-0   742     904
 1972   4-09-1  1251*   1449
 1973   9-05-0  2003*   2073*
 1974   9-05-0  1125    1314
 1975   8-06-0  1817*   2243*
 1976   2-12-0  1503*   1762*
 1977   3-11-0   557     695
 
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
-------------------
Season  Record  Yrds   YScm
 1978   2-14-0   593    765
 1979   2-14-1   460    506
 
* Denotes lead league.
Offline zombieslayer  
#12 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 6:39:02 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post


There was no correlation between having Barry Sanders, and winning, so no, he is also not an elite running back.


If we want to go best of best, I'd say Barry Sanders was #1 since 1976 when I started watching football. Wallie was #2. #3 a tough call between LT and Emmitt Smith. Wallie won a SB. E Smith won 3. The others didn't win anything. OJ Simpson was before my time. When I got to see him, he was already worn down.

As a Packers fan, the only elite RB we had was Ahman Green. He was only elite for a few years and in that time, we made the Playoffs and lost. The 2 SBs we won, we didn't have a 1000 yard rusher.

So like I said, waste of money. With money limited, spend it on elite defenders. You'll have a much better team. You need to run the ball, but put anyone back there. It doesn't matter. He just needs to run with the football and not fumble. Starks is fine. Grant is fine. Heck, we could have won the Super Bowl with Dmitri Nance or that one guy we cut before the season started. It doesn't matter.

If a RB wants more money, trade him for draft picks. Use the money you saved on a LB or a CB or a S or a DE or a NT. Those guys are more important anyways.
Offline Packers_Finland  
#13 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 6:42:15 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post


There was no correlation between having Barry Sanders, and winning, so no, he is also not an elite running back.


If we want to go best of best, I'd say Barry Sanders was #1 since 1976 when I started watching football. Wallie was #2. #3 a tough call between LT and Emmitt Smith. Wallie won a SB. E Smith won 3. The others didn't win anything. OJ Simpson was before my time. When I got to see him, he was already worn down.

As a Packers fan, the only elite RB we had was Ahman Green. He was only elite for a few years and in that time, we made the Playoffs and lost. The 2 SBs we won, we didn't have a 1000 yard rusher.

So like I said, waste of money. With money limited, spend it on elite defenders. You'll have a much better team. You need to run the ball, but put anyone back there. It doesn't matter. He just needs to run with the football and not fumble. Starks is fine. Grant is fine. Heck, we could have won the Super Bowl with Dmitri Nance or that one guy we cut before the season started. It doesn't matter.

If a RB wants more money, trade him for draft picks. Use the money you saved on a LB or a CB or a S or a DE or a NT. Those guys are more important anyways.


I don't actually think Sanders wasn't elite, it was only an attempt to bait Zero.
Offline zombieslayer  
#14 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:12:03 PM(UTC)
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I knew you were being sarcastic and saw that you're trying to bait Zero. I saw that he was on earlier so I'm assuming he's ignoring you.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#15 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:14:21 PM(UTC)
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I am aghast. No Jim Brown? That is just wrong.

Emmitt was not elite, or even good. He was passable. He was a guy who ran into the line and fell down. It was just that his line gave him +3 and he fell for 2. Barry was handed -2 and fell forward for 7.

In '09 those top 5 backs had over 20 years of experience between them. Do you know how many super bowl rings? None.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:22:08 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
What are you calling an Elite running back?


He named a whole bunch of them. If you don't like the term "elite RBs," you can substitute another term of your choice, like "top ranking RBs" or whatever.


I thought he named fantasy Running Backs, not what was making them an Elite RB.


The only one that I feel comes close to being elite would be Adrian Peterson. Because year in year out he's getting his yards and scores.
Offline zombieslayer  
#17 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:23:13 PM(UTC)
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Dexter - I'm too young. I've never seen Jim Brown other than videos of him. When I say "best" I always make a point that it's 1976 on.

Yes, I think Smith is overrated but you do have to admit, the guy has a nose for the end zone. That's why I like him. He gets TDs by any means necessary. Thus I put him with LT. How would he be behind an average OL? Well, debatable.
Offline macbob  
#18 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:26:01 PM(UTC)
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Zombie-

Irrelevant. To borrow a line: You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.

The stats you are presenting support an argument that an elite QB is more important than an elite RB to winning. I dont think anyone here disagrees with that statement/argument.

The problem comes when you leap from that argument to an elite RB (or the running game in general) is irrelevant.

elite QB > elite RB

and

elite RB = 0

are not the same thing.

Paul Hornung & Jim Taylor were not irrelevant.

More recently, Terrell Davis wasnt irrelevantJohn Elway and the Broncos lost 3 SBs before they gained a running game. 2 of those 3 years they had an elite defense (ranked first and seventh in scoring) and their passing game/D wasnt enough, by themselves, to win the SB.

Do I think we need to go out and trade/spend to acquire AP? No. I think our RBs (Grant/Starks) will provide us enough of a running game to keep the defenses honest.

Do I think Packers should become primarily a running team? No. A running game will get you about 1500-2000 yards AT MOST a year, where a passing game will get you in the realm of 4000 yds.

What I would like to see is us drop the ZBS and to draft a couple of OL (OT & LG being the biggest needs). Get some help for both our running and passing games (I don't think it's either or--I think an improved OL can improve both). Can we clone Sitton & Bulaga???
Offline macbob  
#19 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:31:00 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
I think we can all agree that O.J. Simpson qualified as an "elite running back." Out of curiosity, I looked up the season records for the teams on which he played. The results were eye opening.

Code:
BUFFALO BILLS
-------------

Season  Record  Yrds    YScm
 1969   4-10-0   697    1040
 1970   3-10-1   488     647
 1971   1-13-0   742     904
 1972   4-09-1  1251*   1449
 1973   9-05-0  2003*   2073*
 1974   9-05-0  1125    1314
 1975   8-06-0  1817*   2243*
 1976   2-12-0  1503*   1762*
 1977   3-11-0   557     695
 
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
-------------------
Season  Record  Yrds   YScm
 1978   2-14-0   593    765
 1979   2-14-1   460    506
 
* Denotes lead league.


Yeah, but you can't just take that straight up. For example, in 1973 when the Bills were 9-5 OJ rushed for over 2000 yards but their passing game was putrescent--997 yards for the entire year, last in the league. 71 passing yards/game. By himself, OJ was more than 2/3rds of the Bills total offense.
Offline zombieslayer  
#20 Posted : Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:34:27 PM(UTC)
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The game changed since the 60s. Passing was harder back then as you can smack the receivers all the way down the field up until they were about to catch a ball. Also, you can bury a QB into the turf and not worry about a 15-yard penalty.

The 2 year SB span with the Broncos, see what RP said in another thread. They cheated, plain and simple. I was referring to the salary cap and they broke the rules.
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