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Offline zombieslayer  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:59:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I think the man has 2 more years to prove himself. You do remember he was a rookie last year, right?


Yes, but he was also a first round pick. First rounders are supposed to contribute faster than others.

Look at Hawk for instance. Drafted 5th, started.

This is year #2, and he's likely to miss a good portion of it. So that's why I'm saying "heading for bust status." And no, not Canton. Shame on you
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Offline bozz_2006  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:00:14 PM(UTC)
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Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick, and he's had three years of no contributions, yet we're giving him more time.
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Offline Greg C.  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:23:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick, and he's had three years of no contributions, yet we're giving him more time.


If Aaron hadn't been playing behind one of the greatest QB's ever, we would not have been this patient. I'm willing to give Harrell a little more time, though.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:59:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick, and he's had three years of no contributions, yet we're giving him more time.


Justin Harrell didn't have Brett Lorenzo Favre starting in front of him.

The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away. QBs take a little bit of time.
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Offline porky88  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:15:09 PM(UTC)
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Harrell would of gone to Denver with their 1st round pick. Who GB would of taken is unknown to us. Maybe we get Harrell and maybe we don't. In the end the draft isn't and never will be about one pick. While the Packers missed on that pick, they've made a lot of good ones. I personally don't like the pick but it's done with and hey if that's the biggest problem we have then things will be great.
Offline bozz_2006  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:42:05 PM(UTC)
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my point is that there is no such thing as a predetermined expectation. each player is an individual, and needs to be treated as such.
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Offline millertime  
#32 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:14:18 PM(UTC)
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At the time, I wanted Leon Hall or Dwayne Bowe. But with the Williams trade, I'm glad we took Harrell, he's def. been better than the next highest ranking DT, Alan Branch. I give him a break for his rookie year. He'll need to step up this year in the absence of Williams and if/when Jolly get suspended.
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Offline pack_in_black  
#33 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 3:10:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick, and he's had three years of no contributions, yet we're giving him more time.


Justin Harrell didn't have Brett Lorenzo Favre starting in front of him.

The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away. QBs take a little bit of time.



Just to play Devil's advocate, Harrell did have Jolly, Pickett, Cole, and Williams starting in front of him. And AJ started his first year for a team that was coming off a 4-12 season.

Harrell's was coming off a 8-8 season.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#34 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:03:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post



Just to play Devil's advocate, Harrell did have Jolly, Pickett, Cole, and Williams starting in front of him. And AJ started his first year for a team that was coming off a 4-12 season.

Harrell's was coming off a 8-8 season.


True dat. Good argument.

However, now we need him healthy. I was very much against getting rid of Corey Williams. That guy is solid. Now he's gone and Harrell's hurt again.

The other thing is, in GB, we use all our DTs. We rotate them all in, making sure we keep them fresh for 4 quarters of football. His not contributing is hurting the rotation. So I'm sticking to "heading towards bust status" until he proves me wrong.

I sincerely hope he proves me wrong, starts getting 7 1/2 sacks from the middle every year and clogs the middle and becomes a perennial Pro Bowler. As it's looking though, he may spend more of his career on the bench than on the field unfortunately.
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Offline dhpackr  
#35 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:57:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
WhenTed Thompsondrafted Harrell he had the chance to trade down to Clevland's second, which wasn't too much lower, and then pick up Clevland's first this year. Harell is a bust so far, we may have been able to get him with that second rd pick, and we could have gotten Rashard Mendenhall(or whoever) this year's with the first. But that's all hindsight.

What seems to contradict TT's value of drafts choice is that he didn't make the trade to pick up an extra pick that was also a high pick. Especially being in a building mode.

I wish we would have made that trade. What really hurts is the Cowgirls did. This has been on my mind since then and I'm just curious what others would have done. What do you think?


I wish Ted Thompson drafted Greg Olsen instead of Harrell
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:20:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I wish Ted Thompson drafted Greg Olsen instead of Harrell


I'm starting to think that too, but I'll give Harrell another half season or so before I jump ship.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#37 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:37:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


I wishTed Thompsondrafted Greg Olsen instead of Harrell


I do too. That would have made more sense.
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Offline bozz_2006  
#38 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:49:50 PM(UTC)
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if we'd have drafted olsen, i doubt we'd have drafted jermichael finley this year. he won't get much, if any, playing time until he learns how to block, but he's only 21, so he has time to learn. plus, he is a freak as a receiving TE. I am so excited to see what he can contribute once he develops a bit. he's gonna be a stud, i think. and if we drafted olsen, who is just ok IMO, we'd not have taken finley.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#39 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:52:02 PM(UTC)
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off topic a bit, but Jermichael Finley is a stud on Madden '09 lol
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#40 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:58:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away. QBs take a little bit of time.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away.



Not necessarily. I believe it was Mike Shanahan that stated last year that anything you get out of a d-linemen in the first year is a bonus, they need time to adjust to the pro-level. (I believe he said this in reference to Harrell, actually)

Considering that statement, I do not think anyone can really call Harrell a bust. It is still too darn early, and even with his injury set back I look for Harrell to step up in to the DT rotation before the half way point of the season.

One thing that is really telling is that when Colin Cole went out, Harrell replaced him as one of the gunners. That shows a heck of a lot of versatility.

Personally, I think the Packers have the makings of adding a 3-4 to their scheme on certain situations, if and only if Harrell gets healthy. Harrell , Jolly, Jenkins/Montgomery to anchor the D-front might be passable if used once in a while.
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Offline longtimefan  
#41 Posted : Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:11:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away. QBs take a little bit of time.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away.



Not necessarily. I believe it was Mike Shanahan that stated last year that anything you get out of a d-linemen in the first year is a bonus, they need time to adjust to the pro-level. (I believe he said this in reference to Harrell, actually)

Considering that statement, I do not think anyone can really call Harrell a bust. It is still too darn early, and even with his injury set back I look for Harrell to step up in to the DT rotation before the half way point of the season.

One thing that is really telling is that when Colin Cole went out, Harrell replaced him as one of the gunners. That shows a heck of a lot of versatility.

Personally, I think the Packers have the makings of adding a 3-4 to their scheme on certain situations, if and only if Harrell gets healthy. Harrell , Jolly, Jenkins/Montgomery to anchor the D-front might be passable if used once in a while.



Just to verify the fact Denver wanted Justin


linkyyyyyyyyyyyy

Quote:
Denver wanted Harrell
The Denver Broncos, the upcoming opponent for the Packers on Monday, picked one choice after Green Bay during this past year's NFL draft. If the Packers hadn't already taken Justin Harrell, the Broncos may have done so.

"We were trying to decide with direction we were going to go," Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said during a conference call with reporters according to PackersNews.com. "We had Harrell, and we had Jarvis. We were kind of split, but we liked Harrell a lot."

So should we give Harrell a break and not call him a bust just yet?

"Anytime you don't go through a full offseason program, especially as a young guy, and you don't get the reps, I think you judge a guy like that next year," Shanahan said. "It's really hard to judge a player that doesn't go through the OTAs and doesn't get a full dose of what it's about."
Offline arrowgargantuan  
#42 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 1:40:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
A little early to label him a bust?


Yes. It is too early to call him a bust.

He gets one more year before "bust" status.

As of now, he's "heading for bust" status.


^^^pretty much how i feel here.

i personally think he won't amount to much. i hope i'm wrong.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#43 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 10:11:33 AM(UTC)
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I've always maintained that you give a rookie and rookie class three years before saying it was bust or not. I just, gosh, with Justin H, I'm irritated because I think the guy is hella talented but he's a charmin boy. If I don't see something productive from him this season, I'm going to buck my stance a little and say he was a poor pick.
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Offline IronMan  
#44 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 10:33:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Denver was going to jump on harrell ( they picked 17th and Packers picked 16th ) and I have a feelingTed Thompsonknew that

You do what you needed to do AT THE TIME...

now does it look stupid? Possibly...

But at the time he was a projected top ten pick.....He had an injury that should have been a non issue after a few months.

No one knew he would injury him self this past year playing Wii.


He Got Hurt Playing WII ??!!?!?!?! :microwave: im sorry thats jst hilarious

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Offline dfosterf  
#45 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 11:11:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I've always maintained that you give a rookie and rookie class three years before saying it was bust or not. I just, gosh, with Justin H, I'm irritated because I think the guy is hella talented but he's a charmin boy. If I don't see something productive from him this season, I'm going to buck my stance a little and say he was a poor pick.


There is a positive aspect to Justin Harrell being hurt again this year, at least so far. I read that the last practice the Pack had like 200 people in attendance vs. the historic 1000+. In that Harrell being hurt is providing another belt of ammunition to those that are absolutely immersed in the quagmire of hatred for Ted Thompson and unmitigated love for Brett, I suspect that a large contingent of "the missing 800" are of that persuasion. I submit that if this trend continues, we will benefit, at least in a fashion sense. I have a strong suspicion that many, if not most of the missing 800 have been attending games festooned in blaze orange. I find this to clash with the sea of green and gold on my HDTV, and look forward to a more color coordinated viewing experience. :microwave:
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Offline zombieslayer  
#46 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 1:10:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away. QBs take a little bit of time.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The other thing is - positional differences. 1st round DTs should contribute right away.



Not necessarily. I believe it was Mike Shanahan that stated last year that anything you get out of a d-linemen in the first year is a bonus, they need time to adjust to the pro-level. (I believe he said this in reference to Harrell, actually)

Considering that statement, I do not think anyone can really call Harrell a bust. It is still too darn early, and even with his injury set back I look for Harrell to step up in to the DT rotation before the half way point of the season.

One thing that is really telling is that when Colin Cole went out, Harrell replaced him as one of the gunners. That shows a heck of a lot of versatility.

Personally, I think the Packers have the makings of adding a 3-4 to their scheme on certain situations, if and only if Harrell gets healthy. Harrell , Jolly, Jenkins/Montgomery to anchor the D-front might be passable if used once in a while.


Well, I'll repeat what I said. I didn't say "bust," I said this:

Quote:
Yes. It is too early to call him a bust.

He gets one more year before "bust" status.

As of now, he's "heading for bust" status.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#47 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 1:13:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
In that Harrell being hurt is providing another belt of ammunition to those that are absolutely immersed in the quagmire of hatred forTed Thompsonand unmitigated love for Brett, I suspect that a large contingent of "the missing 800" are of that persuasion. I submit that if this trend continues, we will benefit, at least in a fashion sense. I have a strong suspicion that many, if not most of the missing 800 have been attending games festooned in blaze orange. I find this to clash with the sea of green and gold on my HDTV, and look forward to a more color coordinated viewing experience. :microwave:


This has nothing to do with hatred of Ted Thompson and love for Brett Favre and everything to do with Packer fans being genuinely concerned that we as a team made a mistake getting rid of C Williams because Harrell is currently in "heading for bust" status.

The way we played last year, we need our DT rotation. I think with a weaker DT and stronger LB in '08, we'll see more work out of our LBs and less out of our DTs. MM's going to have to compensate for what he has to work with.
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#48 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 1:18:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Well, I'll repeat what I said. I didn't say "bust," I said this:

Quote:
Yes. It is too early to call him a bust.

He gets one more year before "bust" status.

As of now, he's "heading for bust" status.



Yeah, I meant to imply that Harrell did contribute to the team, but not necessarily in the fashion many (not you) would expect (IE starting on D).

Didn't mean to pick you out or anything. A first rounder should start somewhere down the line, that is for certain. But no need to worry about him not starting yet... he still has a chance to make a career for himself.

As long as he doesn't get injured again playing Wii. :xcensoredx:
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Offline zombieslayer  
#49 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 1:36:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Well, I'll repeat what I said. I didn't say "bust," I said this:

Quote:
Yes. It is too early to call him a bust.

He gets one more year before "bust" status.

As of now, he's "heading for bust" status.



Yeah, I meant to imply that Harrell did contribute to the team, but not necessarily in the fashion many (not you) would expect (IE starting on D).

Didn't mean to pick you out or anything. A first rounder should start somewhere down the line, that is for certain. But no need to worry about him not starting yet... he still has a chance to make a career for himself.

As long as he doesn't get injured again playing Wii. :xcensoredx:


Oh, no prob. I just talk a lot so you probably confused what I said somewhere with something else.

As for Wii, I'm still waiting for the first Wii death, then uber-lawsuit, Congressional hearing, Mothers Against Wii groups, etc. You know it's coming. It's just a matter of time.
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Offline dfosterf  
#50 Posted : Friday, August 22, 2008 5:12:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
In that Harrell being hurt is providing another belt of ammunition to those that are absolutely immersed in the quagmire of hatred forTed Thompsonand unmitigated love for Brett, I suspect that a large contingent of "the missing 800" are of that persuasion. I submit that if this trend continues, we will benefit, at least in a fashion sense. I have a strong suspicion that many, if not most of the missing 800 have been attending games festooned in blaze orange. I find this to clash with the sea of green and gold on my HDTV, and look forward to a more color coordinated viewing experience. :microwave:


This has nothing to do with hatred ofTed Thompsonand love for Brett Favre and everything to do with Packer fans being genuinely concerned that we as a team made a mistake getting rid of C Williams because Harrell is currently in "heading for bust" status.

The way we played last year, we need our DT rotation. I think with a weaker DT and stronger LB in '08, we'll see more work out of our LBs and less out of our DTs. MM's going to have to compensate for what he has to work with.
I happen to agree with you as regards the mistake. I think it was a difficult decision regarding C Williams, especially in light of Johnny Jolly being injured and Justin being... well... not being, yet. I was attempting to interject some semi-self effacing humor into a discussion, but shall instead watch my lead balloon pass beneath my feet.
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