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Offline Formo  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:43:16 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
LMAO, just got home from work. Guess what I hear on the radio? Denver Broncos are shopping Brandon Lloyd and D.J. Williams, two of their best players.


One Brandon Lloyd and one D.J. Williams does NOT equal one Adrian "All Day" Peterson and one Jared "DakotaT loves me" Allen.

Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
This will help add some umph to Formo saying this method of trading your best players on a failing team is not 'smart'. The Denver Broncos traded Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, two of their best players. So, it still does happen, but when you have Josh McDaniels making the draft selections, it's not gonna turn out too well, lol.


Exactly my point. It's a crapshoot. That's absolutely not worth it.

Zero2Cool said:
Herschel Walker, Steve Walsh, those guys ring a bell at all? HELLO COWBOYS! It has happened and if the fans weren't so fickle and demanding of WIN NOW, it would happen more.


Yeah, I guarantee that another Herschel Walker trade does not happen again.

Zero2Cool said:
You're correct, the risk does not outweigh the reward when you have a staff full of incompetent college scout evaluators like the Vikings possess.


Yup, so incompetent that the Vikings never drafted a Rookie of the Year, much less two of them.. [palm]
Offline Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:27:48 PM(UTC)
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Any three Broncos do not equal half of Adrian Peterson. Thanks for missing the point, big surprise, genius.

Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
Yup, so incompetent that the Vikings never drafted a Rookie of the Year, much less two of them.. [palm]


[palm] You got me! Holy wow, you got me!! [palm] Randy Moss and Adrian Peterson [palm] ... who else do you got? Surely a few OL right? [palm] The majority of the Vikings talent comes from OTHER TEAMS. Prove me wrong. [palm]

Fact is, you are right, acquiring draft picks would be foolish because the Vikings do not know how to draft, nor do they know how to groom their draft picks into professional caliber players.[palm] That is why year after year they pillage free agency and trades. [palm]

Vikings are a poor mans New York Yankees. [palm]
Offline Formo  
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:32:31 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Any three Broncos do not equal half of Adrian Peterson. Thanks for missing the point, big surprise, genius.



[palm] You got me! Holy wow, you got me!! [palm] Randy Moss and Adrian Peterson [palm] ... who else do you got? Surely a few OL right? [palm] The majority of the Vikings talent comes from OTHER TEAMS. Prove me wrong. [palm]

Fact is, you are right, acquiring draft picks would be foolish because the Vikings do not know how to draft, nor do they know how to groom their draft picks into professional caliber players.[palm] That is why year after year they pillage free agency and trades. [palm]

Vikings are a poor mans New York Yankees. [palm]


Percy Harvin wasn't a RotY? You might wanna check on that.

As far their other drafted talent: Chad Greenway, EJ and Erin Henderson, Kevin Williams, Loadholt, Ponder (will prove to be a decent pick), Sidney Rice (got the best out of him), Ray Edwards (got a draft pick out of him leaving), Jim Kliensasser, Kyle Rudolph, Brian Robison, Cedric Griffon are a few talented guys off the top of my head that have contributed for the Vikings in one way or another the past 2-3 seasons. And every one of those guys are starters.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 6:12:56 AM(UTC)
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Now the Colts are being rumored to attempt to move a couple of their best players, Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis. I think it's more of a product of the trade deadline approaching.

Formo, you proved my point with your scarce list, thank ya sir.

If you are drafting the rookie of the year, that means it wasn't that tough of a decision to make that draft selection. But I don't mean to minimize the achievement, since that's the only thing you have going for your pathetic team.
Offline Formo  
#15 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 11:48:50 AM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Now the Colts are being rumored to attempt to move a couple of their best players, Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis. I think it's more of a product of the trade deadline approaching.

Formo, you proved my point with your scarce list, thank ya sir.

If you are drafting the rookie of the year, that means it wasn't that tough of a decision to make that draft selection. But I don't mean to minimize the achievement, since that's the only thing you have going for your pathetic team.


My scarce list?! Seriously? The Vikings have 9 starters that have not been drafted by them, 3 of which weren't even drafted at all. The Packers have 6 starters that were not drafted by them, 3 of which weren't drafted.

Then looking at the rest of the team.. The Vikings have 28 non-starters that were not drafted by them, the Packers have 19 non-starters that were not drafted by them (keep in mind I'm not counting any players that were picked up as rookie free agents).

My point is, the Vikings don't get the majority of their players via trades/FA like you Puker fans like to think. You think they get their players by pillaging other teams' rosters because they seemingly only trade for the big namers which puts them in the spotlight.

I looked at 5 other teams' rosters and they are pretty interesting. Lets have a looksie:

Stillers:
5 starters not drafted by the Steelers
21 non-starters not drafted by the Steelers

Patriots:
9 starters not drafted by the Pats
32 non-starters not drafted by the Pats

Cowboys:
7 starters not drafted by the Cows
25 non-starters not drafted by the Cows

Redskins:
A whopping 15 starters not drafted by the Skins
29 non-starters not drafted by the Skins

Just because the Packers won a Super Bowl with a majority of their roster all drafted within their system doesn't mean that is the only way to build a successful NFL team. The Stiller and Pats have solid franchises and they hardly built their teams the way Ted has done with the Packers.

I agree with you in that it doesn't make sense to draft players if you can't scout college players. My point was the Vikings are far from the worst team in the NFL when it comes to drafting. The number of starters currently on the squad says as such.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 11:59:09 AM(UTC)
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Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree with you in that it doesn't make sense to draft players if you can't scout college players. My point was the Vikings are far from the worst team in the NFL when it comes to drafting. The number of starters currently on the squad says as such.


My point is you absolutely need to stop implying what I am saying. The Vikings are not the worst at anything in my opinion.

I wasn't saying you build by the draft. I am saying you do NOT make big ass trades UNLESS you are the brink of being a legit contender.

Who have the Steelers or Patriots made big trades to ACQUIRE? I think Corey Dillon was a 1st rounder? They just don't do it.

They both have staffs that can COACH PLAYERS UP. They get budget free agents, undrafted rookies and draft well. THAT IS HOW YOU BUILD A WINNER. I never said you must ONLY draft like your research indicates.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is a pseudo blueprint to build teams. Actually I'll throw this in a new thread. I don't want to run this topic down anymore than I have.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:12:32 PM(UTC)
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Okay, wow moving posts is a biotch. This is my thinking of how to build a successful NFL team.

Owner - priority one should be winning and putting a winning product on the field

General Manager - cares not about fans opinions only about acquiring the best talent. must not be afraid to make a big move to put team over the top.

Head Coach - teacher first, coach second.
Offensive Coordinator - teacher first, coach second.
Defensive Coordinator - teacher first, coach second.
Special Teams - not named Shawn Slocum


Solid scouting staff for college talent, keep logs on files until the player hits 32'ish.
Only overspend in free agency/trade if it is for a player whom will put your team "over the top"
Get rid of players a year EARLY rather than a year LATE


If you remove economics from decisions such as hiring a coach because he has a big name, or a player cuz of their name, etc ... I think this is the foundation most teams TRY to emulate, but fail.


Of course this is just my own BRIEF opinion.


Offline Formo  
#18 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:41:25 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
My point is you absolutely need to stop implying what I am saying. The Vikings are not the worst at anything in my opinion.


I'm only replying in a way because of the implications of your posts. And yes, that's exactly what I'm perceiving your posts to imply. I'll take ownership of that.. but only because of your history of implying the Vikings are the debul.

Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I wasn't saying you build by the draft. I am saying you do NOT make big ass trades UNLESS you are the brink of being a legit contender.

Who have the Steelers or Patriots made big trades to ACQUIRE? I think Corey Dillon was a 1st rounder? They just don't do it.

They both have staffs that can COACH PLAYERS UP. They get budget free agents, undrafted rookies and draft well. THAT IS HOW YOU BUILD A WINNER. I never said you must ONLY draft like your research indicates.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is a pseudo blueprint to build teams. Actually I'll throw this in a new thread. I don't want to run this topic down anymore than I have.


My research doesn't indicate much. You were ribbing me about how the Vikings can't draft outside of the obvious 2 recent RotYs they have. All I was showing you was that, yes, in fact that Vikings CAN draft, and have as many own-drafted players on their roster as the average NFL team.

And as far as building a successful NFL team, there's going to be a blueprint on how to build the skeleton of the team, but as far as the rest goes, is very fluid.
Offline DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:45:26 PM(UTC)
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How to build an NFL winner and we're using the Vikings as a model? I know some of you miss Nick the dumbass, but bringing VR back is not worth using the worst case scenario oxymoron possible.

Building a winner starts with the GM putting in place the right guy at Quarterback. That is step 1 and the Vikings have never learned that. It is incredible the amount of wasted talent that has gone through that franchise because they didn't have the great player at the number 1 position.

Packer fans should consider themselves the luckiest fvckers on the planet.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
macbob on 10/14/2011(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#20 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 12:51:18 PM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
How to build an NFL winner and we're using the Vikings as a model?


Who the fuck is using the Vikings as an example on HOW TO build a winner? In my post briefly explaining a top level core structure I did not mention the Vikings.
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