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DoddPower  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 8:29:01 AM(UTC)
I personally like what Gurley can bring to special teams (e.g., blocking kicks, which he has shown he can do in the only time he has had a chance: preseason). I think the 5th and maybe even the 4th wide receiver should have special teams value, which Driver does not. While I acknowledge that Driver still holds some value to this team in the passing game, I'm not convinced it's anything significantly more than someone like Gurley would, especially as a red zone target. Sure, there is no guarantee, but one or more of those young guys could be the next Donald Driver themselves! We won't know without giving them an opportunity, but I think that's a common thought. I also think the common argument of Driver being the only wide receiver showing up against the Giants in the playoff game isn't a good argument. We've all heard that he was being covered by a single linebacker at times. Also, there were a few opportunities that were there that Rodger's simply missed. Perhaps if Rodger's make those couple of throws, we'd be saying Finley or Jennings stepped up in that game, despite a drop or two. I also understand the veteran presence argument, but I'm not convinced that's a big factor either, especially since Jennings, Nelson, Jones, etc., have all been around for several years and have experienced running the table through the playoffs (on the road) and winning a Super Bowl. I think that any leadership abilities that would leave with Driver could easily be accounted for by others, and sometimes, it takes a leader leaving for a new one to emerge.

It goes without saying this is just my opinion and obviously Ted and McCarthy know better than me. But the factors described above plus my skepticism of his ability to stay healthy, even in limited playing time, pushes me towards giving the young guys a shot. I agree with letting him fight for his spot in training camp, but I would hope it's an uphill battle for him. In other words, he needs to show he is SIGNIFICANTLY better and more valuable to this team than any of the younger guys. If so, good. I wouldn't be disappointed. However, I will not be surprised in the slightest to see him on another team this season.
earthquake  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 8:43:57 AM(UTC)
I think Doddpower makes an excellent point. Sure Driver brings a lot of experience to the table, but the core offensive players, Rodgers, Jennings, Sitton, etc are guys who are on their second, some going on third contracts soon, high character guys with a lot of playing experience and everything you would want as far as leadership goes. I am fine with those guys as the leaders of this offense.

Even some of the younger guys like Nelson, Jones, and Bulaga bring solid experience to the team, if you look at the team as a whole there are a lot of young players, but you look at the starters, the core players, these are good guys with lots of playing experience. I'm not sure if DD's vast experience will be missed as much as some are saying.
zombieslayer  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:54:15 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
1. I'd rather have DD now than Hines Ward of 3 years ago. Bleh, bleh, bleh.
2. DD has said he's willing to take a salary cut. Don't know how big a one, but one can't just quote his current contract and say he costs too much.
3. I don't understand this "cut him, he's declined" stuff at all. None of those young practice squad players, good as they have looked, have shown themselves as better than DD. Sure, I can see moving him down last year's depth chart. That's not the same as moving him below those who couldn't even make the 53-man roster last year. Not until they show they can make the roster.
4. Especially since he played better than almost any other receivers last year in the last game, and the game that counted the most (e.g., the playoff game).

The only place Hines Ward deserves to be compared with DD is in his Dancing With The Stars performance. And DD beats the crap out of him there.



Right on with 2,3,and 4. I don't follow the Steelers so not sure about how to compare him to Ward. But yes, Driver will take a pay cut. And yes, none of the other guys have shown to be better than Driver, and come Playoff time, Driver ups his level. How many other players can say that? Jordy and Gregorious can. They were spectacular in the SB in 2010. But against the Giants (both times), Driver seemed like the only guy who was solid.

Before you all cut cut cut, you better have reliable options. [-x
dhazer  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 3:29:55 PM(UTC)
Ok am I missing something but I don't see any receptions for Gurley last year but hell hes better than Driver. Hell he is the best wr we have on this team. If you go off his his preseason stats he killed everyone right. Gurley is the best leader in the locker room by far.
I mean if you see Driver on dancing with the stars you will see he is all flabby and old and can barely move. Send him to Detroit to join up with Collins.
buckeyepackfan  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:08:05 PM(UTC)
Let the man go already!!!!!

Tired of these same stupid arguments every year.

Hell we lost Chasten West last year because Driver wouldn't retire!!

That's right Chasten West who showed more potential than Borel or Gurley and went to Jacksonville and was never heard from again!!

I'm really tired of these veteran players holding back all the young guys just "full of potential"

Dammit with Chasten West The Packers probably would have beaten The Giants last year and went on to win The Superbowl.

To tell the truth I am more worried about how The Packers are gonna keep Aaron Rodgers upright and healthy all year than I am whether Donald Driver stays.
zombieslayer  
#46 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:13:28 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
Ok am I missing something but I don't see any receptions for Gurley last year but hell hes better than Driver. Hell he is the best wr we have on this team. If you go off his his preseason stats he killed everyone right. Gurley is the best leader in the locker room by far.
I mean if you see Driver on dancing with the stars you will see he is all flabby and old and can barely move. Send him to Detroit to join up with Collins.


I heard Cam Newton said that if he had Gurley on his team, they'd win the Super Bowl for sure.

Randy Moss says that one day he hopes he can be as good a deep threat as Gurley.

Jerry Rice was recently in a fit of depression because for all his hard work, his records will be shattered by Gurley's.

Ted Thompson recently turned down a trade from the Redskins for their first round draft picks for the next ten years for Gurley. Mike McCarthy told Ted Thompson that if Ted Thompson took the trade, Mike McCarthy will quit right there and then.

Wes Welker says that he hopes he can have half as many receptions as Gurley will have in 2012.

So yes, Gurley is superior to Driver, Jennings, and Nelson combined. Once he is on the field, we might as well not even play the game. Aaron Rodgers will just throw the ball high up in the air and Gurley will come down with it, break all the tackles, and high step into the end zone every single down.

I'm surprised you don't know all this Hazer. And you claim to be a Packers fan. [-(
nerdmann  
#47 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:15:58 PM(UTC)
What are the odds of DD being healthy all season vs that of Gurley being healthy all season?
buckeyepackfan  
#48 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:19:18 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What are the odds of DD being healthy all season vs that of Gurley being healthy all season?


The odds are the same!!! Anyone can be injured at anytime. Doesn't matter whether you are a rookie or 15 year vet, every player that walks on the field knows that play could be their last.

Check with Vegas, if anyone has a line on the question Vegas will.
dhazer  
#49 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 4:28:01 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
The odds are the same!!! Anyone can be injured at anytime. Doesn't matter whether you are a rookie or 15 year vet, every player that walks on the field knows that play could be their last.

Check with Vegas, if anyone has a line on the question Vegas will.



Ya ask Collins the odds of staying healthy last year, I am sure noone thought he would be out for the year.
wpr  
#50 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 8:19:43 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Let the man go already!!!!!

Tired of these same stupid arguments every year.

Hell we lost Chasten West last year because Driver wouldn't retire!!

That's right Chasten West who showed more potential than Borel or Gurley and went to Jacksonville and was never heard from again!!

I'm really tired of these veteran players holding back all the young guys just "full of potential"

Dammit with Chasten West The Packers probably would have beaten The Giants last year and went on to win The Superbowl.

To tell the truth I am more worried about how The Packers are gonna keep Aaron Rodgers upright and healthy all year than I am whether Donald Driver stays.


13 rec 163 yds 2 td. just in case you wanted to know.
Porforis  
#51 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 8:47:52 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
That's right Chasten West who showed more potential than Borel or Gurley and went to Jacksonville and was never heard from again!!

...

Dammit with Chasten West The Packers probably would have beaten The Giants last year and went on to win The Superbowl.


UserPostedImage

buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
To tell the truth I am more worried about how The Packers are gonna keep Aaron Rodgers upright and healthy all year than I am whether Donald Driver stays.


Absolutely. The fact that our forum has a four-plus page long topic arguing about which decent WR should and should not make the cut tells us that we've got excellent depth at WR. There's a reason we drafted tons of defense.
nerdmann  
#52 Posted : Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:33:35 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
The odds are the same!!! Anyone can be injured at anytime. Doesn't matter whether you are a rookie or 15 year vet, every player that walks on the field knows that play could be their last.

Check with Vegas, if anyone has a line on the question Vegas will.


Really? Because I predicted Cliffy wouldn't make it through last year. That was pretty easy.
DakotaT  
#53 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:13:43 AM(UTC)
The saddest thing in sports is watching the decline of star players, and we chock full of gluttons for punishment in this forum. Last year he was being covered by linebackers, let's hope this year Jared Allen isn't dropping to pick him up.
Zero2Cool  
#54 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:18:47 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
The saddest thing in sports is watching the decline of star players, and we chock full of gluttons for punishment in this forum. Last year he was being covered by linebackers, let's hope this year Jared Allen isn't dropping to pick him up.


If Donald Driver is able to beat a linebacker and Tori Gurley and/or the other WR's can't, why would you want the latter on the team in the first damn place? One of the perks of having many good receivers is exactly that ... a match up problem for the defense!

No disagreement that watching star athletes decline is a bummer. But no one is saying to keep Donald Driver simply because he's Donald Driver. Everyone is in agreement (who wants him on the roster) with if he takes a pay cut which he says he would and is one of the best X amount of receivers he deserves the spot then.

It's the NFL. You take the best 53 based on what's best for the team, not letting someone go because they are older than someone else that their position. What is this, the Vikings-decision-making now?
DakotaT  
#55 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:42:36 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
If Donald Driver is able to beat a linebacker and Tori Gurley and/or the other WR's can't, why would you want the latter on the team in the first damn place? One of the perks of having many good receivers is exactly that ... a match up problem for the defense!

No disagreement that watching star athletes decline is a bummer. But no one is saying to keep Donald Driver simply because he's Donald Driver. Everyone is in agreement (who wants him on the roster) with if he takes a pay cut which he says he would and is one of the best X amount of receivers he deserves the spot then.

It's the NFL. You take the best 53 based on what's best for the team, not letting someone go because they are older than someone else that their position. What is this, the Vikings-decision-making now?


Don't you know by now that I'm always right? He's a waste of cap space at this jucture of his career. If we wouldn't have signed back Jones last here when he came crawling back with his tail between his legs, then I'd be all for keeping Driver until his teeth started falling out. There should always be 1 spot on our receiving corp up for grabs, and keeping Driver doesn't allow for that. Also Driver doesn't play on special teams with the exception of onside kick defense.
Zero2Cool  
#56 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 6:49:02 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Don't you know by now that I'm always right? He's a waste of cap space at this jucture of his career. If we wouldn't have signed back Jones last here when he came crawling back with his tail between his legs, then I'd be all for keeping Driver until his teeth started falling out. There should always be 1 spot on our receiving corp up for grabs, and keeping Driver doesn't allow for that. Also Driver doesn't play on special teams with the exception of onside kick defense.


Donald Driver at his current salary, yes, too expensive for a at best 4th WR. Why not keep six WR and only 4 TE this season? I could see this happening because Andrew Quarless is surely going to be on the PUP list.
  1. Greg Jennings
  2. Jordy Nelson
  3. James Jones
  4. Randall Cobb
  5. Donald Driver
  6. Tori Gurley


Again, this is all speculating that SIX WR are even worth keeping in the first place.
DakotaT  
#57 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:03:56 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Donald Driver at his current salary, yes, too expensive for a at best 4th WR. Why not keep six WR and only 4 TE this season? I could see this happening because Andrew Quarless is surely going to be on the PUP list.
  1. Greg Jennings
  2. Jordy Nelson
  3. James Jones
  4. Randall Cobb
  5. Donald Driver
  6. Tori Gurley


Again, this is all speculating that SIX WR are even worth keeping in the first place.


Because we are going to have to carry 3 quarterbacks. Matt Flynn provided a major luxury for us. I would also rather carry an extra Dlineman.
Zero2Cool  
#58 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:10:11 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Because we are going to have to carry 3 quarterbacks. Matt Flynn provided a major luxury for us. I would also rather carry an extra Dlineman.


The Packers will not carry three QB's to start the season unless Aaron Rodgers suffers some kind of injury that makes them cautious. There's just no reason to keep three QB's.

It's fairly common that O gets 25, D gets 25 and Special Teams gets 3. There's no rule and it could tilt any direction.
play2win  
#59 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:10:52 AM(UTC)
doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
I personally like what Gurley can bring to special teams (e.g., blocking kicks, which he has shown he can do in the only time he has had a chance: preseason). I think the 5th and maybe even the 4th wide receiver should have special teams value, which Driver does not. While I acknowledge that Driver still holds some value to this team in the passing game, I'm not convinced it's anything significantly more than someone like Gurley would, especially as a red zone target. Sure, there is no guarantee, but one or more of those young guys could be the next Donald Driver themselves! We won't know without giving them an opportunity, but I think that's a common thought. I also think the common argument of Driver being the only wide receiver showing up against the Giants in the playoff game isn't a good argument. We've all heard that he was being covered by a single linebacker at times. Also, there were a few opportunities that were there that Rodger's simply missed. Perhaps if Rodger's make those couple of throws, we'd be saying Finley or Jennings stepped up in that game, despite a drop or two. I also understand the veteran presence argument, but I'm not convinced that's a big factor either, especially since Jennings, Nelson, Jones, etc., have all been around for several years and have experienced running the table through the playoffs (on the road) and winning a Super Bowl. I think that any leadership abilities that would leave with Driver could easily be accounted for by others, and sometimes, it takes a leader leaving for a new one to emerge.

It goes without saying this is just my opinion and obviously Ted and McCarthy know better than me. But the factors described above plus my skepticism of his ability to stay healthy, even in limited playing time, pushes me towards giving the young guys a shot. I agree with letting him fight for his spot in training camp, but I would hope it's an uphill battle for him. In other words, he needs to show he is SIGNIFICANTLY better and more valuable to this team than any of the younger guys. If so, good. I wouldn't be disappointed. However, I will not be surprised in the slightest to see him on another team this season.


I think your point regarding Gurley's STs abilities is spot on, as well as the point that he needs, and the Packers might be best off giving him, a legit shot. I can't wait to see this kid play for real.

DD is still a very capable WR in the NFL. I think he could easily step in and be a #2 or #3 WR on roughly half of the teams in the league, and be serviceable in that role for a couple more years. He is a GB legend and record holder, with a very long tenure here, something to consider in handling any transition that would affect his career and well being. I think he currently resides as our #4 or #5WR, on a super deep group of receivers. We are loaded.

The Packers didn't pony up to secure Gurley's services this season for nothing.

To me, the prudent move with regards to DD is to let it play out. A lot can happen between now and the start of the regular season, and the roster cut to 53 players. Players can get injured, on our team and on others creating an opening. Deals can be made. Part of the reason I felt Jones was so trade worthy was the depth we have, with DD and Gurley both able to advance readily as regular contributors to our O this season. That kind of trade could still happen, possibly for a pick next year.

Zero2Cool mentioned a few factors that will have to be in play for DD to stay in GB. I think another is potential injury to one of our 1-4WRs. Injury to another team's top WR could also create a void that would necessitate a trade for one of ours. There is value in not rushing into anything just yet, and saving the tough decisions for those roster cuts down to 53.

Trade scenarios are pretty unlikely, but they do happen. Most likely, a team will wait us out for our roster cuts. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see DD cut, as sad as that might be. I would have no problem trading another and keeping him around at a more cap friendly number, but not at the expense of the growth of a potential star, which I think Gurley may prove to be. Just my opinion. It's going to be a difficult call. I would guess, if Ted is forced there, he will hate to make it, but he'll make the call in favor of the younger talent.
PackerTraxx  
#60 Posted : Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:11:54 AM(UTC)
Actually, the decision on DD should be quite simple. If he is clearly better you keep him. If not, you keep the younger player who has more upside and costs less.
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