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Offline Wade  
#181 Posted : Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:53:25 PM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Shawn if I could applaud twice I would.

Formo that is the kind of thinking that has run us intot he ground.

The money doesn't magically appear for the State's portion. You may think it will all come from pull tabs and suites. It won't. Once the spot light is off them the money will come in from other sources as well.

Keep in mind there are State/City funds outside of the stadium. Millions will be spent on infrastructure. The streets will need to be redone. New lines. New sewers laid in. That won't come from pull tabs.
Then there is the knocking down the old stadium and re working the ground for something suitable in that location.

The people of the State of MN will end up paying a hefty sum just so they can say having 4 stadiums is awesome. Good for you. You deserve it.


The money that comes from pull tabs....it has alternate uses. Alternate uses that will no longer get the money because that money is going to build a stadium. Alternate uses that now will either go without doing or get funds from somewhere else. And, knowing how Americans (not just Minnesotans) hate to go without when the "government can provide", that likely means paying for them by borrowing more money or levying more taxes.

Your elected officials have decided that the stadium is worth all that. In my cynic's mind, I'm tempted to say they're hoping you all will miss this "opportunity cost" just like Americans have missed that the last trillion or so times they've promised something "without any higher taxes".

But I won't. Perhaps the stadium is worth it, after all. Perhaps this is the exception to the usual rule.

But exception or not, never say there is no social cost. There *always* is.

Always.

Offline Formo  
#182 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 1:35:55 AM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
The money that comes from pull tabs....it has alternate uses. Alternate uses that will no longer get the money because that money is going to build a stadium. Alternate uses that now will either go without doing or get funds from somewhere else. And, knowing how Americans (not just Minnesotans) hate to go without when the "government can provide", that likely means paying for them by borrowing more money or levying more taxes.

Your elected officials have decided that the stadium is worth all that. In my cynic's mind, I'm tempted to say they're hoping you all will miss this "opportunity cost" just like Americans have missed that the last trillion or so times they've promised something "without any higher taxes".

But I won't. Perhaps the stadium is worth it, after all. Perhaps this is the exception to the usual rule.

But exception or not, never say there is no social cost. There *always* is.

Always.



I'm assuming you meant to quote me.

Our elected officials have decided as such because they got more calls, letters, and emails than they had EVER gotten before by far on passing this stadium bill. So, in a sense, they were mostly just following constituent 'orders'.

I never said the deal was perfect and I won't say that there won't be some sort of social cost (obviously because I just don't know).. But what I WILL say is this: The NFL is bigger than it's ever been. There are only 32 teams in the NFL and there are more cities/markets that want an NFL team than there are NFL teams. So simple economics say, there's a higher demand than there is supply. Which means the price to have an NFL team is going to be steep. If the state of Minnesota didn't pony up some how, another market/city would have gladly ponied up.

And I, for one, am happy we will pay our dues.
Offline Wade  
#183 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 8:18:46 AM(UTC)
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Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm assuming you meant to quote me.

Our elected officials have decided as such because they got more calls, letters, and emails than they had EVER gotten before by far on passing this stadium bill. So, in a sense, they were mostly just following constituent 'orders'.

I never said the deal was perfect and I won't say that there won't be some sort of social cost (obviously because I just don't know).. But what I WILL say is this: The NFL is bigger than it's ever been. There are only 32 teams in the NFL and there are more cities/markets that want an NFL team than there are NFL teams. So simple economics say, there's a higher demand than there is supply. Which means the price to have an NFL team is going to be steep. If the state of Minnesota didn't pony up some how, another market/city would have gladly ponied up.

And I, for one, am happy we will pay our dues.


I did. You know me -- permanently computer challenged! [grin1]

In the end, it's your state, not mine. If your state legislators decide its a good idea, if they are responding to your citizens, then it's not my place to claim that "it isn't worth it."

Not that that ever stops me, of course. [grin1]

But it probably should.

Offline Formo  
#184 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 9:53:44 AM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I did. You know me -- permanently computer challenged! [grin1]

In the end, it's your state, not mine. If your state legislators decide its a good idea, if they are responding to your citizens, then it's not my place to claim that "it isn't worth it."

Not that that ever stops me, of course. [grin1]

But it probably should.



Yeah, no doubt.. You ain't paying for it, and you ain't spending money to attend it's events.. So I don't get how you get to say that it isn't worth it.. =P
Offline Zero2Cool  
#185 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 10:28:04 AM(UTC)
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Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, no doubt.. You ain't paying for it, and you ain't spending money to attend it's events..


If by 'events' you mean Vikings games ... who is?
Offline Formo  
#186 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 6:47:57 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
If by 'events' you mean Vikings games ... who is?


I have and will continue to do so. I'm sure VR has in the past, and will probably in the future (although I'll let him confirm or deny).

What's your point?
Offline Zero2Cool  
#187 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 9:21:13 AM(UTC)
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Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
I have and will continue to do so. I'm sure VR has in the past, and will probably in the future (although I'll let him confirm or deny).

What's your point?


Point is, that's two more than I was expecting.
Offline gbguy20  
#188 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:35:16 AM(UTC)
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since it's new i'll have to check it out least once. Maybe hit up a packers-vikings game. Hopefully the new place won't be as hostile as the dome is.
Offline dfosterf  
#189 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:24:41 PM(UTC)
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Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
WTF are you even saying? Time to pour some sense into your jughead, pal.




These things would make more sense to you if you had a better sense of humor. You get a waiver, as a Vikings fan.
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wpr on 5/19/2012(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#190 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:54:33 PM(UTC)
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Hmmmm... political rhetoric over PSL's and London, oh my.

Your words now carry little weight Dayton, you already signed away that control in the legislation, you have saddled the fine tax payers of MN with this double dip already. Pony up that wallet for those seat license then fork over the season ticket money with the stadium tax tacked on please.

You got played and ol' Ziggy isn't going to have to kick in as much "private" money to get this done.

Is it nirvana if you are on the outside of the stadium looking in?
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