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Offline Wade  
#181 Posted : Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:53:25 PM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Shawn if I could applaud twice I would.

Formo that is the kind of thinking that has run us intot he ground.

The money doesn't magically appear for the State's portion. You may think it will all come from pull tabs and suites. It won't. Once the spot light is off them the money will come in from other sources as well.

Keep in mind there are State/City funds outside of the stadium. Millions will be spent on infrastructure. The streets will need to be redone. New lines. New sewers laid in. That won't come from pull tabs.
Then there is the knocking down the old stadium and re working the ground for something suitable in that location.

The people of the State of MN will end up paying a hefty sum just so they can say having 4 stadiums is awesome. Good for you. You deserve it.


The money that comes from pull tabs....it has alternate uses. Alternate uses that will no longer get the money because that money is going to build a stadium. Alternate uses that now will either go without doing or get funds from somewhere else. And, knowing how Americans (not just Minnesotans) hate to go without when the "government can provide", that likely means paying for them by borrowing more money or levying more taxes.

Your elected officials have decided that the stadium is worth all that. In my cynic's mind, I'm tempted to say they're hoping you all will miss this "opportunity cost" just like Americans have missed that the last trillion or so times they've promised something "without any higher taxes".

But I won't. Perhaps the stadium is worth it, after all. Perhaps this is the exception to the usual rule.

But exception or not, never say there is no social cost. There *always* is.

Always.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Formo  
#182 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 1:35:55 AM(UTC)
Formo

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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
The money that comes from pull tabs....it has alternate uses. Alternate uses that will no longer get the money because that money is going to build a stadium. Alternate uses that now will either go without doing or get funds from somewhere else. And, knowing how Americans (not just Minnesotans) hate to go without when the "government can provide", that likely means paying for them by borrowing more money or levying more taxes.

Your elected officials have decided that the stadium is worth all that. In my cynic's mind, I'm tempted to say they're hoping you all will miss this "opportunity cost" just like Americans have missed that the last trillion or so times they've promised something "without any higher taxes".

But I won't. Perhaps the stadium is worth it, after all. Perhaps this is the exception to the usual rule.

But exception or not, never say there is no social cost. There *always* is.

Always.



I'm assuming you meant to quote me.

Our elected officials have decided as such because they got more calls, letters, and emails than they had EVER gotten before by far on passing this stadium bill. So, in a sense, they were mostly just following constituent 'orders'.

I never said the deal was perfect and I won't say that there won't be some sort of social cost (obviously because I just don't know).. But what I WILL say is this: The NFL is bigger than it's ever been. There are only 32 teams in the NFL and there are more cities/markets that want an NFL team than there are NFL teams. So simple economics say, there's a higher demand than there is supply. Which means the price to have an NFL team is going to be steep. If the state of Minnesota didn't pony up some how, another market/city would have gladly ponied up.

And I, for one, am happy we will pay our dues.
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Offline Wade  
#183 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 8:18:46 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
I'm assuming you meant to quote me.

Our elected officials have decided as such because they got more calls, letters, and emails than they had EVER gotten before by far on passing this stadium bill. So, in a sense, they were mostly just following constituent 'orders'.

I never said the deal was perfect and I won't say that there won't be some sort of social cost (obviously because I just don't know).. But what I WILL say is this: The NFL is bigger than it's ever been. There are only 32 teams in the NFL and there are more cities/markets that want an NFL team than there are NFL teams. So simple economics say, there's a higher demand than there is supply. Which means the price to have an NFL team is going to be steep. If the state of Minnesota didn't pony up some how, another market/city would have gladly ponied up.

And I, for one, am happy we will pay our dues.


I did. You know me -- permanently computer challenged! Big Grin

In the end, it's your state, not mine. If your state legislators decide its a good idea, if they are responding to your citizens, then it's not my place to claim that "it isn't worth it."

Not that that ever stops me, of course. Big Grin

But it probably should.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Formo  
#184 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 9:53:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I did. You know me -- permanently computer challenged! Big Grin

In the end, it's your state, not mine. If your state legislators decide its a good idea, if they are responding to your citizens, then it's not my place to claim that "it isn't worth it."

Not that that ever stops me, of course. Big Grin

But it probably should.



Yeah, no doubt.. You ain't paying for it, and you ain't spending money to attend it's events.. So I don't get how you get to say that it isn't worth it.. =P
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#185 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 10:28:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, no doubt.. You ain't paying for it, and you ain't spending money to attend it's events..


If by 'events' you mean Vikings games ... who is?
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Offline Formo  
#186 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 6:47:57 PM(UTC)
Formo

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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
If by 'events' you mean Vikings games ... who is?


I have and will continue to do so. I'm sure VR has in the past, and will probably in the future (although I'll let him confirm or deny).

What's your point?
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#187 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 9:21:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
I have and will continue to do so. I'm sure VR has in the past, and will probably in the future (although I'll let him confirm or deny).

What's your point?


Point is, that's two more than I was expecting.
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Offline gbguy20  
#188 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:35:16 AM(UTC)
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since it's new i'll have to check it out least once. Maybe hit up a packers-vikings game. Hopefully the new place won't be as hostile as the dome is.
call me Dan
Offline dfosterf  
#189 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:24:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
WTF are you even saying? Time to pour some sense into your jughead, pal.




These things would make more sense to you if you had a better sense of humor. You get a waiver, as a Vikings fan.
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 5/19/2012(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#190 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:54:33 PM(UTC)
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Hmmmm... political rhetoric over PSL's and London, oh my.

Your words now carry little weight Dayton, you already signed away that control in the legislation, you have saddled the fine tax payers of MN with this double dip already. Pony up that wallet for those seat license then fork over the season ticket money with the stadium tax tacked on please.

You got played and ol' Ziggy isn't going to have to kick in as much "private" money to get this done.

Is it nirvana if you are on the outside of the stadium looking in?
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Wade  
#191 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:35:58 PM(UTC)
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hehe.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Formo  
#192 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:31:40 PM(UTC)
Formo

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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Hmmmm... political rhetoric over PSL's and London, oh my.

Your words now carry little weight Dayton, you already signed away that control in the legislation, you have saddled the fine tax payers of MN with this double dip already. Pony up that wallet for those seat license then fork over the season ticket money with the stadium tax tacked on please.

You got played and ol' Ziggy isn't going to have to kick in as much "private" money to get this done.

Is it nirvana if you are on the outside of the stadium looking in?


Dayton is now ponying up to the OTHER side of the fence now for more political gain. Not all that surprised. I'm totally done with this. It's done, signed, sealed, and well on it's way to being delivered.
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Offline Pack93z  
#193 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:13:03 AM(UTC)
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More twin city drama.. or political posturing. Either way.. fans will be ponying the funds.

Quote:

Dayton says he'll fight Vikings on possible seat license fees, saying team wasn't forthright

PLYMOUTH, Minn. - Gov. Mark Dayton is not retreating from his vow to fight the Minnesota Vikings if they try to charge new big fees to season ticket holders to help fund the new football stadium.

Dayton says Thursday that he believes the team was not forthright about the possibility of hefty personal seat license charges when the stadium bill was moving through the legislative process.

He says he thought any plan would resemble the modest approach used by the Minnesota Twins and not like those of other NFL teams that have charged tens of thousands of dollars.

The Vikings say the stadium bill allows for personal seat licenses, but that no decisions have been made.

Dayton says he's confident the state's stadium authority would block overly extensive charges.



And.. is this Zeus from the PPO.. doppelganger maybe?

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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Formo  
#194 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:18:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
More twin city drama.. or political posturing. Either way.. fans will be ponying the funds.




And.. is this Zeus from the PPO.. doppelganger maybe?

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Yes, political posturing. While the PSL thing sucks and I think is stupid, it's something that teams have EVERY right to do. Not to mention, Dayton forgets that the bill he signed exclusively says that the Vikings can use SBLs (basically PSLs).

Quote:
On PSLs -- called Stadium Builders Licenses (SBLs) here -- there are two references that make clear the Vikings are permitted to market and sell the licenses on behalf of the newly created stadium authority:

• Subd. 2 - NFL Team/Private Contribution; timing of expenditures - (a) The NFL team/private contribution, including stadium builder's license proceeds, for stadium costs must be made in cash in the amount of $477,000,000.

• Subd. 14 - Stadium Builder's Licenses. - The authority shall own and retain the exclusive right to sell stadium builder's licenses in the stadium. The authority will retain the NFL team to act as the authority's agent in marketing and selling such licenses.


No, that's not Zeus. That's Larry Spooner. Also known in Minnesota as the Viking Super Fan.
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Offline Porforis  
#195 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:25:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
No, that's not Zeus. That's Larry Spooner. Also known in Minnesota as the Viking Super Fan.


I can tell, he's super indeed. No bag over his head or anything.
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