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Offline wpr  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:36:27 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
The NFL has sent a memo to all 32 teams notifying them that replacement referees will be used at the beginning of the regular season, according to Mike Freeman of CBS Sports. The season begins on Sept. 5 when the Dallas Cowboys take on the defending champion New York Giants.


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Offline Porforis  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:07:43 AM(UTC)
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Obviously the first game was bad as far as calls go, but that last game didn't have any more blown calls/no-calls than any normal game with normal refs. It did seem like they were giving both the receiver and defender a bit more leeway when it came to pass interference... Maybe it was just that they didn't notice the little pushes and the grabs, but the hopeful part of me says that all of the refs in all of the games will let WRs and DBs duke it out a bit more. Ask me again after the game how I feel, though. :)
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Offline Pack93z  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:13:25 AM(UTC)
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Personally.. I think in terms of getting calls right.. they are doing a better job than the normal crew.

I do think they may be missing things, especially in the passing game where contact/interference happen rapidly. But even then I don't know that it really happening or not.

De Smith claiming the a strike is an option due to player safety concerns.. utter bullshit. The refs might miss a call.. but I don't know a single time I can think of were a ref got a player hurt other than actual physical contact on the play.. ie the ref getting in the way of the play. That and Orlando Brown getting stuck in the eye with the flag.. once in a lifetime deal.

Refs don't stop a play because they see a possible injury developing.. once a play starts (no off sides, illegal movement, etc) the play is live and there is not a damn thing the refs are going to do about it.. they don't blow the whistle if a DE breaks loose and is going to clobber the QB. They don't stop a seam route with a safety sitting in wait.

It is a bullshit cop out claim for attention to the NFLPA... where was this concern last season from the NFLPA when because of a partial responsibility on their part the refs didn't get a full slate of training in the TC's?

Joe Buck and Aikman can kiss my ass too.. making it sound all doom and gloom. Must be getting a kick back.

Look.. I don't disagree that the NFL is composed of a greedy bunch of billionaires, that this all about the money. But honestly, the players, the announcers, the refs.. they all are a bunch of Greedy SOB's because they see the cash roll in upon the cow. They all want a cut.. so don't sit here and play one off as more greedy than the other.

No the replacements are not as good as the regulars.. not yet at least.. but it is not like it is the end of the world either.

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Offline Pack93z  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:12:35 AM(UTC)
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Case in point.. mind you these are part time employees.


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The driving factor is, as always, money. The league contends that it has offered annual raises between five and 11 percent, pointing out that the average pay for NFL officials last season was $149,000. (Not bad for a hobby.) Under the NFL’s most recent (and perhaps final) proposal, the average official would earn $189,000 by 2018.

First-year officials earned, on average, $78,000 in 2011. Under the NFL’s most recent (and perhaps final) proposal, the average first-year official from 2011 would be making $165,000 by 2018.
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Offline Porforis  
#5 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:25:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Personally.. I think in terms of getting calls right.. they are doing a better job than the normal crew.

I do think they may be missing things, especially in the passing game where contact/interference happen rapidly. But even then I don't know that it really happening or not.

De Smith claiming the a strike is an option due to player safety concerns.. utter bullshit. The refs might miss a call.. but I don't know a single time I can think of were a ref got a player hurt other than actual physical contact on the play.. ie the ref getting in the way of the play. That and Orlando Brown getting stuck in the eye with the flag.. once in a lifetime deal.

Refs don't stop a play because they see a possible injury developing.. once a play starts (no off sides, illegal movement, etc) the play is live and there is not a damn thing the refs are going to do about it.. they don't blow the whistle if a DE breaks loose and is going to clobber the QB. They don't stop a seam route with a safety sitting in wait.

It is a bullshit cop out claim for attention to the NFLPA... where was this concern last season from the NFLPA when because of a partial responsibility on their part the refs didn't get a full slate of training in the TC's?

Joe Buck and Aikman can kiss my ass too.. making it sound all doom and gloom. Must be getting a kick back.

Look.. I don't disagree that the NFL is composed of a greedy bunch of billionaires, that this all about the money. But honestly, the players, the announcers, the refs.. they all are a bunch of Greedy SOB's because they see the cash roll in upon the cow. They all want a cut.. so don't sit here and play one off as more greedy than the other.

No the replacements are not as good as the regulars.. not yet at least.. but it is not like it is the end of the world either.



If players recognize that Refs are missing hits to the head, chop blocks, illegal blocks in the back, horsecollars, etc... I do think we will see some players commiting these penalties more often. That being said, I agree that the NFLPA is full of shit. Just admit that a few of the games (especially the first week) were terrible and that it makes for a more unpredictable and undesirable game. They really don't have anything else significant to complain about.
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Offline Pack93z  
#6 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:02:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
If players recognize that Refs are missing hits to the head, chop blocks, illegal blocks in the back, horsecollars, etc... I do think we will see some players commiting these penalties more often. That being said, I agree that the NFLPA is full of shit. Just admit that a few of the games (especially the first week) were terrible and that it makes for a more unpredictable and undesirable game. They really don't have anything else significant to complain about.


The fine committee hasn't changed a bit.. same panel will review the plays as in weeks before.

So no.. I don't think that the frequency is going to increase. At least from my view.

We can look at almost any game from the past five years and find missed calls.. hits to the head, etc. But later in week they receive a fine.

So now we ask.. why did they start to fine players?

Because the penalties were not effective enough to change the behavior. The fines / suspensions, they say have.

So really.. does a small percentage of increased missed calls going to effect player behavior in an unsafe manner?

I don't believe so.

And the NFLPA is treading on a thin piece of ice here.. with some of their players fighting the bounty case now.

You know, skirting the rules set in place to try an intimidate at the minimum, the safety of the other players.

There really to me is no case here.. other than the style of play upon the field maybe slightly affected, example, maybe the defenders can be slightly more or less physical with the receivers. The Lineman may be able to hold a little more often.

If anything, I think the refs are jumping the whistle a bit and overcalling plays... 9 to 10 minutes added to the game times from this preseason to last. See the Perry call opening week.. or the roughing call called against Crabtree in which the hit was almost textbook.
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Offline Wade  
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:50:36 AM(UTC)
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Jeff Triplette. Ed Hochuli. Their respective crews.

We should be worried because these people might be replaced.

Give me a break.

If you want to make an argument that perhaps there should be a couple more officials per crew (because of the speed of players v. the speed of zebras)...maybe there's a case.

But argue that the sky's going to fall because a bunch of lawyers (how many NFL refs are lawyers, I wonder?) might get replaced by a bunch of cheaper lawyers....bah.

None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline Wade  
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:51:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Jeff Triplette. Ed Hochuli. Their respective crews.

We should be worried because these people might be replaced.

Give me a break.

If you want to make an argument that perhaps there should be a couple more officials per crew (because of the speed of players v. the speed of zebras)...maybe there's a case.

But argue that the sky's going to fall because a bunch of lawyers (how many NFL refs are lawyers, I wonder?) might get replaced by a bunch of cheaper lawyers....bah.

It's like a corporate or university president blaming their failures on "the economy". It's a cop out.


None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline Formo  
#9 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:36:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Jeff Triplette. Ed Hochuli. Their respective crews.

We should be worried because these people might be replaced.

Give me a break.

If you want to make an argument that perhaps there should be a couple more officials per crew (because of the speed of players v. the speed of zebras)...maybe there's a case.

But argue that the sky's going to fall because a bunch of lawyers (how many NFL refs are lawyers, I wonder?) might get replaced by a bunch of cheaper lawyers....bah.



Uhh.. Have you seen some of these replacements? I didn't think it would be much of a deal.. but from what I've seen and am starting to hear is these guys are literally in over their heads. Hell, just hearing them hit their mic and say, "Holding, Offense, number 75, 5 yard penalty, repeat 1st down." sounds like they are terrified. I heard a few of these calls in the few minutes of Viking preseason games and at least 4 times I've heard a ref make those calls and he was audibly trembling.

Yeah, sure, the 'normal' refs mess up. But just wait. You'll see how much more these guys will mess up if this continues.
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Offline Pack93z  
#10 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:47:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post


Yeah, sure, the 'normal' refs mess up. But just wait. You'll see how much more these guys will mess up if this continues.


And just how many non speaking mistakes have they made over the course of the preseason.

The worst and most notable that I have seen is not allowing Coughlin decide whether or not he wanted to run another play with the clock expired.

But other than incorrect names or jitters in speaking.. I just haven't see them get a call wrong. It may have taken a conference on the field, but they are getting the calls right.

Show me where they have made a mistake in what 97 games. Then I would like to review 97 games with the normal "polished" refs... I bet the difference just isn't that drastic.

My only point is this.. would I rather have the normal crews. Yes.

But, much like the Players and owners, the refs have succumb to the greed element from the cash cow that is the NFL.

The differences will more than likely be less felt than the alignment changes of the refs from last season. It is just being over hyped.

Until they can parse out the dollars.. this isn't that big of a deal.
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Offline Porforis  
#11 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:38:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
And just how many non speaking mistakes have they made over the course of the preseason.

The worst and most notable that I have seen is not allowing Coughlin decide whether or not he wanted to run another play with the clock expired.


What about the 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct on Worthey in the first preseason game for getting somewhat excited after a sack?
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Offline Pack93z  
#12 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:50:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
What about the 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct on Worthey in the first preseason game for getting somewhat excited after a sack?


I thought it was Perry.. yes by appearance that looked bad. Do we know what he said on the field? Do we have all the information to know it was a bad call.

But even there... if anything, that is erroring on the side of caution.

Again.. I am not saying they are as good as the normals.. but even the normal refs blow calls. Rodgers in Arizona comes to mind right off the bat.

What I find impressionable, is the refs were all over the history of the one woman ref. They were all over the incorrect team name.. so they are watching. And they have basically had nothing.. nothing to really bitch about.

Even De Smith.. he didn't cite a single example.

I think that is telling.
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:20:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
I thought it was Perry.. yes by appearance that looked bad. Do we know what he said on the field? Do we have all the information to know it was a bad call.

But even there... if anything, that is erroring on the side of caution.

Again.. I am not saying they are as good as the normals.. but even the normal refs blow calls. Rodgers in Arizona comes to mind right off the bat.

What I find impressionable, is the refs were all over the history of the one woman ref. They were all over the incorrect team name.. so they are watching. And they have basically had nothing.. nothing to really bitch about.

Even De Smith.. he didn't cite a single example.

I think that is telling.


It was Perry, it was their first game, it was probably a college ref, it hasn't happened since then. Remember, they're new to the pro game, they're getting better. The normal refs better not wait too long or there won't be any or little difference and then they'll have no or little leverage.
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Offline Porforis  
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:33:31 PM(UTC)
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Waaaaay too many times that there were no flags thrown with hits to the facemask after the play is over and other heavier forms of pushing and shoving, right in front of the ref. They reaaaalllly needed to stop this crap way earlier in the game.
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Offline Pack93z  
#15 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2012 6:24:54 AM(UTC)
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The refs did have a part in potentially costing a team a game last night.... oh wait.. Vandy vs South Carolina.. errr nevermind. Big Grin
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