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Offline Pack93z  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 1:36:30 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

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The discussion over Jennings possible last year in GB, spurred me to look at guys that might let go to make room.

Right off the top of my head, I picked three guys that might find replaceable, opening large chunks of money that can be moved towards the big four everyone points to as the priority.

First blush, I don't know that it is dire as many make it out to be. If Smith steps up as well as I think he will, it could make either Hawk or Bishop expendable. If the young safeties step up, it might prompt the Packers to look at Woodson's contract. We have a decent core of depth at Tight End, Finley is making huge jack and can't stay healthy.

Point being, there are options if they need them.

AJ Hawk

Code:

    BASE SALARY    S. BONUS    MISC. BONUS    CAP HIT
2013     4,900,000     1,600,000     550,000    7,050,000
2014     4,900,000     1,600,000     1,050,000    7,550,000
2015     5,400,000     1,600,000     1,050,000    8,050,000
2016     UFA
Signing Bonus: $8 million
Workout Bonus: $250,000
Roster Bonus (2011): $1.8 million
Roster Bonus (2012-2013): $300,000
Roster Bonus: (2014-2015): $800,000



Charles Woodson

Code:

2013     6,500,000     -     3,500,000    10,000,000
2014     6,500,000     -     3,500,000    10,000,000
2015     UFA
2010 Game Bonus: $900,000
2011 Roster Bonus: $2.05 million
2011 Incentive: $937,500
2012 Roster Bonus: $4 million
2012 Incentive: $937,500
2012 Incentive: $125,500
2013-14 Game Bonus: $1 million
2013-14 Roster Bonus: $2.5 million


Jermichael Finley

Code:

2013     4,450,000     500,000     3,800,000    8,750,000
2014     UFA
Incentives: $1 million
Signing Bonus :$1 milion
Annual Roster Bonus: $3.5 million
Annual Workout Bonus: $300,000


Desmond Bishop
Code:

2013     3,464,000     1,000,000     500,000    4,964,000
2014     3,522,000     1,000,000     500,000    5,022,000
2015     UFA
Signing Bonus: $4 million
2011 Roster Bonus: $1 million
2011-12 Incentive: $24,375
2013-14 Incentive: $300,000
Annual Workout Bonus: $200,000
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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thanks Post received 1 applause.
gbguy20 on 9/6/2012(UTC)
Online Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 1:58:55 PM(UTC)
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Cut Hawk
Rework Woodson

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline earthquake  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:48:37 PM(UTC)
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Ryan Picket
Donald Driver
James Jones

A few more players that might be replaced with cheaper/younger alternatives next year. Would I take Jennings over DD and JJ next year? Without a doubt.

Raji's money probably comes from cutting in Picket 2013/letting him walk as a FA in 2014, in all actuality. Age/injuries aren't going to do him any favors.

Mathews... Not sure where his money comes from, and it will likely be a lot.
blank
Offline mkapp  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:55:41 PM(UTC)
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I keep hearing things about James Jones being shopped. Latest was that Miami was interested, which could work out with Philbin over there. Driver retires, Hawk moves on, Bishop resigns for less due to being injury-prone or is gone. Finley and C-Wood are the big question marks. Woodson is getting old(er) and Finley has underproduced unless he has a breakout year.
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Offline earthquake  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 3:33:04 PM(UTC)
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The choice might come down to Finley vs Jennings too, if Finley breaks out as a top 3 TE, loosing Jennings will be less of a blow. If Jennings is resigned, any chance Finley has at a big money long term contract in GB is likely out the window.
blank
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DakotaT on 9/5/2012(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:00:43 PM(UTC)
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Yup, and Jones isn't going anywhere now that we'll lose one of the two (Jennings or Finley).
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline macbob  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:11:18 PM(UTC)
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Another option is to franchise tag Jennings.

He wouldn't like that, but it may be a way of keeping everyone together another year.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
porky88 on 9/5/2012(UTC)
Offline porky88  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:29:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
Another option is to franchise tag Jennings.

He wouldn't like that, but it may be a way of keeping everyone together another year.

This is the most likely scenario for a two legitimate reasons.

First, it extends the amount of time the Packers have to reach a long-term contract. Second, it allows the Packers to shop Jennings for a draft pick. Both scenarios are plausible.
Offline mi_keys  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:36:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
The discussion over Jennings possible last year in GB, spurred me to look at guys that might let go to make room.

Right off the top of my head, I picked three guys that might find replaceable, opening large chunks of money that can be moved towards the big four everyone points to as the priority.

First blush, I don't know that it is dire as many make it out to be. If Smith steps up as well as I think he will, it could make either Hawk or Bishop expendable. If the young safeties step up, it might prompt the Packers to look at Woodson's contract. We have a decent core of depth at Tight End, Finley is making huge jack and can't stay healthy.

Point being, there are options if they need them.

AJ Hawk

Code:

    BASE SALARY    S. BONUS    MISC. BONUS    CAP HIT
2013     4,900,000     1,600,000     550,000    7,050,000
2014     4,900,000     1,600,000     1,050,000    7,550,000
2015     5,400,000     1,600,000     1,050,000    8,050,000
2016     UFA
Signing Bonus: $8 million
Workout Bonus: $250,000
Roster Bonus (2011): $1.8 million
Roster Bonus (2012-2013): $300,000
Roster Bonus: (2014-2015): $800,000



Charles Woodson

Code:

2013     6,500,000     -     3,500,000    10,000,000
2014     6,500,000     -     3,500,000    10,000,000
2015     UFA
2010 Game Bonus: $900,000
2011 Roster Bonus: $2.05 million
2011 Incentive: $937,500
2012 Roster Bonus: $4 million
2012 Incentive: $937,500
2012 Incentive: $125,500
2013-14 Game Bonus: $1 million
2013-14 Roster Bonus: $2.5 million


Jermichael Finley

Code:

2013     4,450,000     500,000     3,800,000    8,750,000
2014     UFA
Incentives: $1 million
Signing Bonus :$1 milion
Annual Roster Bonus: $3.5 million
Annual Workout Bonus: $300,000


Desmond Bishop
Code:

2013     3,464,000     1,000,000     500,000    4,964,000
2014     3,522,000     1,000,000     500,000    5,022,000
2015     UFA
Signing Bonus: $4 million
2011 Roster Bonus: $1 million
2011-12 Incentive: $24,375
2013-14 Incentive: $300,000
Annual Workout Bonus: $200,000


AJ Hawk's numbers surprised me. I thought we had cut him and resigned him to a more manageable amount than that.

If those are Hawk's numbers I think he needs to be gone if Bishop comes back healthy. I like him but I want to keep as many of the Rodgers, Jennings, Matthews and Raji group as possible.

I looked on that site you were using and Driver's number is supposedly $2.3M. That's not so much but if/when he's replaced by a young gun next year we're going to get just that much more wriggle room.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 6:52:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
The choice might come down to Finley vs Jennings too, if Finley breaks out as a top 3 TE, loosing Jennings will be less of a blow. If Jennings is resigned, any chance Finley has at a big money long term contract in GB is likely out the window.


We have to find a way to keep both. I've said several times that Jennings is not an elite receiver. What he is though is a superb, precise route runner; and in this offense, that may be more important.

Finley is just flat out talented, but needs to put away his arrogance and play football. Everything else should then fall into place.

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Offline nerdmann  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:08:41 PM(UTC)
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The cap will stagnate for a year or two, but then start going up again. Keep that in mind. As we go, there will be more space.

The player union reps wanted to look like they got a better settlement, so they in essence borrowed against the next couple years of cap expansion to make themselves look good. So the cap is stagnating a bit, but that won't always be the case.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline LambeauEast  
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:11:32 AM(UTC)
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I've seen this team play without Jennings, and I don't like it. Finley Schminley...Jennings shouldn't be going nowhere anytime soon, imo.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:17:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LambeauEast Go to Quoted Post
I've seen this team play without Jennings, and I don't like it. Finley Schminley...Jennings shouldn't be going nowhere anytime soon, imo.


Packers played pretty good without Greg Jennings. Jordy Nelson stepped up.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline LambeauEast  
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:24:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Packers played pretty good without Greg Jennings. Jordy Nelson stepped up.


My bad, I thought for sure that they sucked balls without Jennings...I'm okay with being wrong. IMO of course.

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Online Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:37:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LambeauEast Go to Quoted Post
My bad, I thought for sure that they sucked balls without Jennings...I'm okay with being wrong. IMO of course.



I think Greg Jennings missed the Chiefs game, but I think the defense cost the Packers the game more than missing one WR, lol.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline LambeauEast  
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:01:03 AM(UTC)
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I stand corrected. He shall get no more money from us....enjoy being a Viking, Mr. Jennings!
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Offline yooperfan  
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:00:07 AM(UTC)
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As a football fan I don't even want to think about contracts and their ramifications.
I just want to see a successful 2012 season for the Packers.
I have faith that Ted Thompson and his contract gurus will do what is best for the Packers at the time.
I prefer to leave the worrying to them.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
zombieslayer on 9/6/2012(UTC)
Online Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:14:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
As a football fan I don't even want to think about contracts and their ramifications.
I just want to see a successful 2012 season for the Packers.
I have faith that Ted Thompson and his contract gurus will do what is best for the Packers at the time.
I prefer to leave the worrying to them.


I think that's an excellent point. Did fans care about contracts in the slightest back in the 60's, 70's or even 80's? The internet, what has it done to us?!?!?!
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline zombieslayer  
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:16:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
As a football fan I don't even want to think about contracts and their ramifications.
I just want to see a successful 2012 season for the Packers.
I have faith that Ted Thompson and his contract gurus will do what is best for the Packers at the time.
I prefer to leave the worrying to them.


Well said. Applause

I should try to be more like you and just enjoy the 2012 season.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline Pack93z  
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:31:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
As a football fan I don't even want to think about contracts and their ramifications.
I just want to see a successful 2012 season for the Packers.
I have faith that Ted Thompson and his contract gurus will do what is best for the Packers at the time.
I prefer to leave the worrying to them.


Think

So a big part of the success of the 2012 will hinge on whom is upon the field.. and whom is upon the field is upon the roster. And the roster is made up of 53 players with varying skills. Varying skills thus translates into perceived value. Perceived value leads to contract demands. Contract demands lead to signed contracts. Signed contracts lead to money spent. Money spent leads to amount of cap allocated. Amount of cap allocated directly impacts whom is upon the roster, thus to the success of the team upon the field.

It is all relative. Big Grin

Seven degrees type of logic.. if I spend a dollar on the Packers how is it allocated.

Humor aside.. yes I would probably be a happier fan if I could turn the money aspect of that game off. How is the question when I am force fed it at every turn.. thanks Greg Jennings, the refs, Jerry freaking Jones, lockouts, blackouts, stadium funding campaigns.. etc.. etc.. etc. Heck.. even in church they seem to focus more on money than God.

Weeeee!!

Message modified by user Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:45:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline gbguy20  
#21 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 8:34:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
The cap will stagnate for a year or two, but then start going up again. Keep that in mind. As we go, there will be more space.

The player union reps wanted to look like they got a better settlement, so they in essence borrowed against the next couple years of cap expansion to make themselves look good. So the cap is stagnating a bit, but that won't always be the case.


relevant to the topic, here is all of our favorite, Andrew Brandt, on the subject:

Quote:
That's a great question. What we're dealing with is a fairly flat cap moving forward, even into 2014 and beyond. Many have asked about that and what about league revenues and the new TV contracts. The deal with the TV contracts is they start relatively close to where they ended financially. They rise throughout the 10-year ranks of their deals. In other words, any player thoughts on the spike of salary caps simply because the new TV deals kick in in 2014 is overstated. The deals kick in but they rise slowly. The projections are for a fairly flat cap through 2015. Maybe not even exceeding $125 million by then. But keep in mind that number is only the salary portion of the cap. There's a whole other benefits part of the cap, which could take it over 150 million. Sometimes there is no focus on what exactly the cap is and it's certainly more than negotiable salaries.


In other words, it may take a lot longer for that cap to go up a significant amount, and it probably won't be soon enough to be relevant in the Jennings negotiations.

I stumbled upon this little gem a few nights ago, when I was actually in the process of creating this exact same thread. The website I was using for player contract information proved to be inaccurate and I decided to scrap it all. So thank you pack93z for making this thread.
call me Dan
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#22 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 9:25:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Cut Hawk
Rework Woodson



I think Packers would be better off trying to trade Hawk if anything.

If I am correct, Packers cut Hawk next year and the 4.8 mil signing bonus money(1.6 mill 2013-14-15) will have to go against the cap in 2013 anyway.

Might as well keep him on, Packers are not going to benefit that much from cutting him.

I think you are gonna see these guys re-work their contracts to free up the money needed to sign the players who are going to be FA's next year.

Packers don't sign Greg Jennings to an extension during this year then pretty good odds he will be gone next year.

Somebody will pay him top dollar and The Packers just will not be able to afford him.

J. Finley needs to prove he can stay healthy and have a big year before he can demand top dollar. IMHO this is a wait and see issue.

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 1:02:24 PM(UTC)
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Great thread Pack93z!

Best part of this whole thing is Ted has options. I would not consider Jennings to be gone from this Packers team next season a sure thing. We know for sure Ted is anti-restructuring. That leaves us with trimming the roster at other positions to fit this boatload of talent back onto the team.

To me, Hawk and Finley both have severely underplayed. I've been equally disappointed with both. Hopefully they have a great year and make the decisions that much more difficult. Save the stress for after the season. We did win a SB without Finley. Same can't be said for Jennings.

We should figure Ted's rather conservative approach in FA this offseason reflects the room this guy is going to need to get Rodgers, Matthews, Raji and Jennings under contract. I would rate their importance in that order.

Found this interesting, even though some of the info is not current: Packers Top 20 Salaries


Player Salary (M=Millions) Contract/Extension Signed Expires
Charles Woodson, CB $11.562M 2010 After 2014
Aaron Rodgers, QB $8.500M 2008 After 2014
Tramon Williams, CB $7.381M 2010 After 2014
Greg Jennings, WR $7.347M 2009 After 2012
A.J. Hawk, LB $6.531M 2011 After 2015
Jermichael Finley, TE $5.750M 2012 After 2013
Ryan Pickett, DE $5.737M 2010 After 2013
Donald Driver, WR $5.000M 2010 After 2012
Josh Sitton, OG $4.800M 2011 After 2016
B.J. Raji, NT $4.255M 2009 After 2013
Desmond Bishop, LB $4.245M 2011 After 2014
Jeff Saturday, C $4.000M 2012 After 2013
Jordy Nelson, WR $3.825M 2011 After 2014
James Jones, WR $3.100M 2011 After 2013
Mason Crosby, K $2.400M 2011 After 2015
John Kuhn, FB $2.400M 2011 After 2013
Clay Matthews, LB $1.930M 2009 After 2013
Bryan Bulaga, OT $1.847M 2010 After 2014
Derrek Sherrod, OT $1.500M 2011 After 2015
Jarrett Bush, CB $1.433M 2012 After 2014

I think they have Rodgers exp date wrong, and a few other figures... but good to see.


http://www.rantsports.co...packers-player-salaries/

Message modified by user Thursday, September 6, 2012 1:36:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks Post received 1 applause.
zombieslayer on 9/6/2012(UTC)
Offline Yerko  
#24 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 2:02:06 PM(UTC)
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Like someone previously mentioned, wouldn't we still have to pay Hawk if he were cut?

If no then he would be the first to cut upon good news of a healthy Desmond Bishop. DJ Smith has been playing better football than Hawk and Hawk has been given more than enough chances (do not see him having some sort of break out season this year).

I was happy when the Packers re-signed Finley and this is the year for him to put up or shut up. If he has to shut up, cut his ass.

Jennings is more valuable than Finley...
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Offline mkapp  
#25 Posted : Thursday, September 6, 2012 3:50:41 PM(UTC)
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Just a reminder Ted Thompson and his draft wisdom will find a way to replace some of these guys with cheaper talent (see Nick Perry).
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