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Offline blueleopard  
#31 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 8:43:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
If our D finishes the season in the bottom half, no logical person can defend Dom. Either Dom goes or Mike McCarthy should polish his resume.

2 consecutive years of really bad performance is unacceptable.

It's only one game. But it was against one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL and we managed to make him look elite. If this is a sign of what's to come, we might want to consider firing Dom mid-season.

Unless of course, you're fine with mediocrity.

We have the best QB in the NFL and possibly the best OLB in the NFL. The team needs to start looking at places we can upgrade. I'm looking at 2 positions in the coaching staff that need an upgrade - DC and OL Coach.

But like I said, it's been only one game. If this continues though, Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy better get on the phone.


Not to mention they pussied out every time they saw Moss on the field.

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Offline Pack93z  
#32 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 8:50:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Why won't people give credit to Nick Collins and his value to the secondary? No Collins no communication. BTW it was good seeing him as the honorary captain today for thr Packers.


I have, multiple times.. but looking further than that. That is all.. Nick Collins was on the field for the Saints and Part of the Panthers game last season in which we gave up 700 + yards to.

So was Burnett.

There is a reason the Packers have dropped the effective press bump coverage, and I am think it is lack of trust over the top.

The one consistent player in the back end with that is Burnett.

Again, not blaming him solely, but looking for the common thread in the struggles. We all know the Cullen Jenkins issue up front last season, that looked better yesterday when the Niners didn't take the underneath stuff that Packers were conceding. We played off almost the entire game, not giving our pass rush a chance to get home on the pressure.

So I need to ask.. why no press.. why not challenge the receivers like we have in the past?

To me.. it is a trust issue over the top. Hence the looking at Burnett.

I don't see what others see in him.. he isn't overly sound tackling, when the ball is in the air he is rarely near it. Yesterday on the Moss touchdown.. he was part of the issue directly in leaving the middle wide open.

I wish I had more access to his responsibilities.. but I don't see him pop on tape.

Edited by user Monday, September 10, 2012 9:02:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline PackerTraxx  
#33 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 8:52:34 AM(UTC)
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I am not as concerned where our D is now as I am where they are the 9th game or so. Right now we have basically the same D as last year, maybe a little better. Rookies don't have a big impact, even though everyone expects that, unless you're lucky. Even the first 5 or 7 blue chip picks don't impact as a rule. Hopefully, with coaching and development there can be a marked improvement this season. But it could take more time than that. At least there is talent to work with now.
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Offline doddpower  
#34 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 9:00:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
I am not as concerned where our D is now as I am where they are the 9th game or so. Right now we have basically the same D as last year, maybe a little better. Rookies don't have a big impact, even though everyone expects that, unless you're lucky. Even the first 5 or 7 blue chip picks don't impact as a rule. Hopefully, with coaching and development there can be a marked improvement this season. But it could take more time than that. At least there is talent to work with now.


heh, well, our 4th round pick Mike Daniels wasn't even active, so he didn't even have a chance to contribute; not that he would have made any impact even if he was active.

Perry looked good enough for his first game in the NFL, but Dom needs to keep him out of coverage, especially against WRs. What the heck does he expect to happen when do so? The guy is a converted defensive end. It's good to mix things up, but not when it's easy exploitable.
Offline Pack93z  
#35 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 9:09:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post


Perry looked good enough for his first game in the NFL, but Dom needs to keep him out of coverage, especially against WRs. What the heck does he expect to happen when do so? The guy is a converted defensive end. It's good to mix things up, but not when it's easy exploitable.


Packers got caught on that one.. I think the Packers were trying to mix it up and help support the edge defense, the Niners seen it and exposed it.

We are over playing that one snap... IMO. The Packers rolled out a alternative look at got caught.. even there, the Safety failed to come up in support.

Bush got his nuts roasted a couple of times.. no over the top help.

BTW.. again someone should have been physical with Moss.. it would have taken him right out of the game. Post catch.. he dropped to the ground like a wet paper sack.. wanted no part of contact. Teams will expose that.. we didn't. I would have put Williams on him and let him smack him off the snap.

BTW.. The Packers also did a pretty good job on Davis.. they were rolling under and overs on him most of the day. Maybe too much attention was paid to him.. maybe that is part of the reason the corners played off.. the safeties were keying on Davis.

The Niners are much improved in the passing game.. which provided balance to that offense.. the Packers defense got dictated to.. I wish our offense could be that balanced and dictate to the defense in such a way. We can at times... but only via the pass.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Rockmolder  
#36 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 9:41:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
49ers were only 2 of 9 on 3rd downs. Packers actually got more sacks than the 49ers. Packers with 4 and 49ers with 3. What really killed the Packers here was 5.8 yards per rush.

The Packers defense absolutely improved, but the 49ers rushing attack was too much for them to handle and it opened the door for their passing game.


When Alex Smith manages to go 20/26, 211 yards, 2 TDs and 0 Ints, your passing defense isn't up to standards, either.

Next to that, 2 of 9 on third downs looks pretty darn good, but overal we couldn't stop them one bit, as we gave up 22nd first downs. 13 of them by passing.

The communication looked absolutely horrendous. There where holes so big that I could've completed some passes in just about every zone coverage scheme. When we do go man, we just lack the talent in the secondary. Both at the corner and safety position.

I'm a very big believer of a pass rush being able to cover up for a bad secondary, but when you have Bush (trying to) play man, with the biggest help you can give him being MD Jennings... Now that's a very sad sight.

All in all, we could've seen this coming. I vividly recall stats posted about Capers' defenses exploding on to the scene in year one and gradually just getting worse every year.

That said, it's early and something can be done. Not about the blatant lack of talent, but you can scheme around it a bit and hope you can cover it up. We played some bad, bad football and only lost by 8 against, what you can very realistically call, a contender. There's still hope.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#37 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 9:44:21 AM(UTC)
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The running game opened up the passing game. Stop the running game, their passing game isn't nearly as efficient.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#38 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 10:12:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
When Alex Smith manages to go 20/26, 211 yards, 2 TDs and 0 Ints, your passing defense isn't up to standards, either.


Yes. That shows that your passing D is amongst the worst. When Alex Smith looks like Tom Brady, it's time to Weeeee!!


Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post

Next to that, 2 of 9 on third downs looks pretty darn good, but overal we couldn't stop them one bit, as we gave up 22nd first downs. 13 of them by passing.

The communication looked absolutely horrendous. There where holes so big that I could've completed some passes in just about every zone coverage scheme. When we do go man, we just lack the talent in the secondary. Both at the corner and safety position.


It may take 2 drafts to fix the problems. Draft 1 was this year. Draft 2 is next year. Ted Thompson will address this.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post


I'm a very big believer of a pass rush being able to cover up for a bad secondary, but when you have Bush (trying to) play man, with the biggest help you can give him being MD Jennings... Now that's a very sad sight.

All in all, we could've seen this coming. I vividly recall stats posted about Capers' defenses exploding on to the scene in year one and gradually just getting worse every year.



Dom has worn out his welcome. I'll give him until mid-season.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post


That said, it's early and something can be done. Not about the blatant lack of talent, but you can scheme around it a bit and hope you can cover it up. We played some bad, bad football and only lost by 8 against, what you can very realistically call, a contender. There's still hope.



Yes. There is hope. 2013, Ted Thompson will once again focus on D. Cobb looks like he will develop. The Niner fans I was watching the game with were apologizing to me for Finley. Geez, when it gets that bad, I say trade Finley and keep Gregorious. With Gregorious, Jordy, and Cobb, we'll have an elite receiving staff once again in 2013 and with 2 years of Ted Thompson going D and a new DC, we'll be back on track to win it all in 2013.

I know Vikesrule loves to call me chicken little, but see, this is what he doesn't understand...

For Packers fans, it's SB victory or bust. Anything short of winning a SB is a lost year. Viking fans just want a winning record. We're not content with just a winning record.

You had your chance in 2009 and blew it. We had our chance in 2010 and won it all. We'll win our 2nd of the Ted Thompson/Mike McCarthy/Aaron Rodgers in 2013 or 2014. Then we'll start discussing DYNASTY again.

But Dom Capers is the weak link, folks. He needs to go. He has until Week 9 to prove me wrong.
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Offline agopackgo4  
#39 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 2:08:20 PM(UTC)
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All I can say is that I watched this secondary get ripped apart for 17 games last season, and I don't think I can take another full season of it! This is exactly what I was dreading. It is miserable to watch
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Offline zombieslayer  
#40 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 2:29:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: agopackgo4 Go to Quoted Post
All I can say is that I watched this secondary get ripped apart for 17 games last season, and I don't think I can take another full season of it! This is exactly what I was dreading. It is miserable to watch


Yes.

The absolute best thing that can happen is that our pass rush develops into elite status, like it was in 2010. That will hide our secondary problems.

CM3 and Woodson were awesome, but, we'll need someone from the DL to step up. Or that guy we drafted for the opposite side of CM3.

It will also require Dom Capers to stop being so predictable. The Niners figured out Capers early. Not acceptable.
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Offline macbob  
#41 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 3:07:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
It will also require Dom Capers to stop being so predictable. The Niners figured out Capers early. Not acceptable.


Not completely a surprise, though. The 49ers D coordinator has been on teams with Capers 3 times (total of 11 years): NO (86-91), Carolina (95-98, as Capers D coordinator), and Houston (02-05, again as Capers D coordinator). If there's anybody out there who could predict Capers tendencies, it would be Vic Fangio.
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Offline Rios39  
#42 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 3:09:57 PM(UTC)
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Both defenses run about the same scheme. Only different is the 9ers have the personnel and years of experienced players under the system. I don't think we are predictable at all TBH. The only thing is the zone coverage but that's more of us not having the ability to cover down the field aside from Tramon.
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Offline agopackgo4  
#43 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 3:18:09 PM(UTC)
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It drives me crazy how they even line up. Talking to my buddy that was at the game yesterday said that the CB's are standing at the first down marker on 1st and 10 plays. Guys are wide open over the middle constantly...Imagine that. You don't even need to be a football genius to figure that one out
Offline Zero2Cool  
#44 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 3:36:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rios39 Go to Quoted Post
Both defenses run about the same scheme. Only different is the 9ers have the personnel and years of experienced players under the system. I don't think we are predictable at all TBH. The only thing is the zone coverage but that's more of us not having the ability to cover down the field aside from Tramon.


Dom Capers has been with the Packers longer than the 49ers coaches have been with the 49ers.

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Offline mkapp  
#45 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 5:05:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: agopackgo4 Go to Quoted Post
It drives me crazy how they even line up. Talking to my buddy that was at the game yesterday said that the CB's are standing at the first down marker on 1st and 10 plays. Guys are wide open over the middle constantly...Imagine that. You don't even need to be a football genius to figure that one out


Yep, we play too deep and give too much of a cushion. Either we cant play man anymore or there isnt much faith that the help over the top will be there. The contributing factor is the time opposing QBs have to find the soft spots. Still not happy with the pressure on QBs, but it WAS admittedly better than NY game.
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