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Offline Formo  
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:53:23 AM(UTC)
Formo

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The direction our nation is going often reminds me of the book I read in junior high called 'The Giver'.
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Offline Wade  
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:56:06 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
This failure (which I agree it is) hasn't just appeared, it has been building for decades. The assault on our constitutional rights has been progressing president after president.

Why?

Because we continue to allow it. Where is the breaking point, that is the question. And when it snaps, how will it snap.

I know Wade posts his view on the ways it happens, but honestly, I don't see it changing without, regretfully, blood spilled. The bureaucrats have built in layers of protection in which the system (and their asses) are protected from peaceful means of change.

My view.. I wish it was different, but it don't see it changing.

So yes.. it is Full Blown Fail... it has been pointing in that direction for decades.


Oh, I agree.

I don't think its a question of "if" anymore, merely of "when".

And when it comes, it isn't going to be a nice little American style revolution in the manner of Washington, Jefferson, et al.

We're in line for France c. 1789-1815.

Or worse.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Wade  
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:06:41 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
Yes.

But your question is wrong--probation is the stipulations on a prisoner who is released BEFORE completing his sentence. Once he's completed his sentence, he's paid his debt to society and is simply released WITHOUT probation terms.

Nobody's making him accept probation. If he doesn't like the probation terms, he can finish out his jail sentence.

I'm not going to blame the government for sticking this butthead back in jail if he doesn't abide by the probation rules HE AGREED TO in order to be released from jail early.

In this case, I think the probation (no internet, no aliases, etc) likely wasn't 'disproportionate', but was imposed because he used the internet in his crime to steal people's IDs, etc. But that's beside the point. If he doesn't like the terms, he doesn't have to get out of jail early.


Well, okay.

I'll modify what I said. "No-internet-probation or stay in jail" -- that is what was disproportionate. If speech/association is not just a civil right, but part of the natural rights of man, then the state is not justified in threatening that right in the name of punishing something that it makes a crime.

That's the point here. Posting a bad video about Muslims is not a crime, nor is it anything approaching the "danger" that he will defraud/hack again. The state should not be able to say, "well, he committed one crime and so might commit another crime, and therefore we aren't going to let him speak politically."

IMO, if the only way you can prevent bad computer geek from committing bank fraud is to restrict him from speaking his political mind, then perhaps you need to recognize that some bank fraud is the price of liberty.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline macbob  
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:34:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
The state should not be able to say, "well, he committed one crime and so might commit another crime, and therefore we aren't going to let him speak politically."


The state is saying:

- We will let you go free from jail even though you have not yet paid your debt to society.

- With that freedom from jail, we have some stipulations that we require you to agree to.

- If you do not want to accept the stipulations, you can stay in jail and finish out your sentence.

- If you violate the terms of the stipulations we will return you to jail to finish out your sentence.

IMO, the stipulations can be anything they want--you must eat this bug, you must wipe your butt with sandpaper. I don't care.

If he doesn't like the terms of his parole, he can turn them down and serve out his sentence, pay his debt to society, and get released without limitations on using the internet, etc.

If he accepts the terms of his parole and then violates them, I have no problem with the government throwing his ass back in jail.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
porky88 on 9/20/2012(UTC)
Offline 4PackGirl  
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:10:05 PM(UTC)
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until the collective people put their money where their mouth is instead of their head where their ass is, we are screwed! we bitch & moan about the gov't does this, they wronged me here, they wronged me there, the gov't is the problem, there are too many laws, our rights are taken away, etc...

to you, i say quit f*ckin sh*t up, making stupid ass mistakes, quit your bitchin, & either accept what this country has done/can do for you or change it. i'm tired of everything being blamed on the gov't. it sickens me that NOBODY does anything wrong, NOBODY is greedy, EVERYONE is perfect, we all have the right to judge without even a small amount of information, but by God nobody better EVER judge us!! we are a bunch of holier than thou hypocrites who will sue the pants off the guy next door cuz we stubbed our toe on his sidewalk & feel like we're totally justified doing that.

greed...of the people, by the people, & for the people.

ok, off my soap box for now. :)
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Offline DakotaT  
#21 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:21:11 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Oh, I agree.

I don't think its a question of "if" anymore, merely of "when".

And when it comes, it isn't going to be a nice little American style revolution in the manner of Washington, Jefferson, et al.

We're in line for France c. 1789-1815.

Or worse.



You're finally coming around, huh. It's only been 3 years, wait until you really get to know me. Big Grin

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