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Offline zombieslayer  
#26 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 9:50:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
I freaking hate the QB position... truly hate it.

Who is elite. 4th Quarter Comebacks. Not clutch. Ramble f*%&ing ramble... on and on.

They are not shit without players around them. Simply put.

The gushing from Aikman yesterday.. I wanted to rip the microphone from his hands and beat him with the damn thing.

What about Jones.. Nelson, Finley catching the damn ball. What about Benson knocking heads all day and forcing the Saints to play the run first. What about the five guys up front that, all but for one rake of the eyes, kept Rodgers clean yesterday. What about the defense stoning the Saints from inside the 5 yard line with 3 cracks at it.

Rodgers didn't win that game yesterday.. tying his name to a comeback is a insult to the rest of the team.

People wonder why I hate the QB position.. this thread brings it to a climax.

The game of football does not revolve around the QB.. it just doesn't.

4th quarter comebacks.. what a bunch of media spun bullshit.

Why do we feel the need to wrap up this beautiful game into a small little undeserving over hyped package as a QB solely?


Hey Pack93z - I can guarantee that as much as you hate QBs, musicians feel even worse about singers.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
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Offline Pack93z  
#27 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 9:55:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Hey Pack93z - I can guarantee that as much as you hate QBs, musicians feel even worse about singers.


To be clear.. I don't hate the people themselves. Just the position. I would imagine that Singers vary in how much they steal the show. Maybe not.. never put in the time to learn how to play an instrument past the trombone because I had to for school.

I would rather invest my limited free time on the farm lifting, running and playing pickup games.

Seems like a lifetime ago.. maybe because it was.. lol.

Funny how some things carry with you.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Yerko  
#28 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 9:56:36 AM(UTC)
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I thought football was a team sport?
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#29 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 10:49:11 AM(UTC)
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Offline nerdmann  
#30 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 1:00:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post


Interesting article.

I don't think we can hold that Arizona loss against him. It is widely recognized that there should have been a flag on that play.

Quote:
Rodgers has thrown a pick six, and of course lost a fumble that was returned for a game-losing touchdown in overtime of his first playoff game in Arizona.


And what's up with THIS? We went 15-1 last year, because of the DEFENSE!? Really?

Quote:
They did go 15-1 last year (expected: 11.9), but that was more due to the defense shutting teams down late rather than the offense making critical scoring drives when they had to.


I only started this thread, because of all the Skip Bayless types who want to throw shit in Rodgers' face. Dude has the best third down %age in league history. He's money, imo.

One thing the article does NOT tell us is Rodgers' QB rating in those situations. Take all the "comeback" 4th quarter scenarios and calculate Rodgers' QB rating. That should control for such factors as defensive shit suckage, although perhaps not for drops and bad calls, the latter of which seems to be a significant issue for the Packers, moreso than other teams.

One negative I will attribute to Rodgers is that his receivers ALL teem to have trouble catching his passes consistently, for whatever reason.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#31 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 1:07:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
One negative I will attribute to Rodgers is that his receivers ALL teem to have trouble catching his passes consistently, for whatever reason.


This isn't a Packers issues alone, its an NFL issue, same with tackling. He does not get a pass on this.
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Offline nerdmann  
#32 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 1:22:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
This isn't a Packers issues alone, its an NFL issue, same with tackling. He does not get a pass on this.


If it's happening with other teams, then maybe it's the balls they're using.

Don't they have a new rule now where you can't break the balls in before the game or something? Or is that just the K-Ball?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline Zero2Cool  
#33 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 1:32:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
If it's happening with other teams, then maybe it's the balls they're using.

Don't they have a new rule now where you can't break the balls in before the game or something? Or is that just the K-Ball?


Offenses are allowed to break in 'their balls' pregame, but the kicking K-Ball is not. That's at least to what I got from Aaron Rodgers comments last week.

Wiki - While NFL teams are allowed to practice with regular game balls, a "K" Ball is the term used by special teams for a brand new ball, not used until kickoff - hence the term K-Ball.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/...all_in_NFL#ixzz2857V7SJn
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Offline nyrpack  
#34 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2012 5:34:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blueleopard Go to Quoted Post
You're the one who made the goddamn post, and now you're changing your own subject. Sit down.

I'm simply saying what Rodgers did today wasn't all that great. It wouldn't even be a comeback if he didn't throw that bonehead interception.

Ryan led his team well within FG range with no timeouts. So he forced it to his bigplay WR. At least he had the balls to take a chance. With Rodgers you'll just see him running around, waiting to get raped by Bruce Irvin.

I'm not at all saying that Ryan is the better QB. Rodgers is, by far. But taking a lead with 8 minutes left to do so is far from qualifying as a clutch score. Much needed, but not clutch. Clutch is when you simply take the game away. Ryan and Brady did it today. Even Griffin did it today. We've also seen Brett doing it for more than a decade.

Aaron's two only clutch wins came against Chicago on that pass to Jennings and the :58 second drive that led to Crosby beating NYG last year.


you dont need to be clutch, as far as last year because he buried teams from the get go, ill take 15-1 over clutch comebacks anytime !!
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Offline blueleopard  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:59:29 AM(UTC)
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Game-winning drives are a notch on every quarterback's belt because, simply put, they prove you're clutch.

You're down by five with 1:37 remaining at your own 17 on 3rd and 12. The QB is the one calling the shots. He is the one rallying his troops to give their team the final chance at victory. None of that crap in the past 3 quarters matters.

It's the same as getting into the post-season. Once you're in, the shit that you did in the regular season goes out the window.

With your back up against the wall, which QB do you want to lead your team?

Rodgers is getting there. Brees, Brady, Manning. They all have that.

Even with the odds of a pick, I'll still take Favre.

Take your 15-1 seasons. If I went 9-7 and won the Super Bowl, I'll take that instead.
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Offline nerdmann  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:27:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blueleopard Go to Quoted Post
Game-winning drives are a notch on every quarterback's belt because, simply put, they prove you're clutch.

You're down by five with 1:37 remaining at your own 17 on 3rd and 12. The QB is the one calling the shots. He is the one rallying his troops to give their team the final chance at victory. None of that crap in the past 3 quarters matters.

It's the same as getting into the post-season. Once you're in, the shit that you did in the regular season goes out the window.

With your back up against the wall, which QB do you want to lead your team?

Rodgers is getting there. Brees, Brady, Manning. They all have that.

Even with the odds of a pick, I'll still take Favre.

Take your 15-1 seasons. If I went 9-7 and won the Super Bowl, I'll take that instead.


So let's say your QB goes 15-1 and has a good team, so he's not in position to have many comeback opportunities. How do you judge whether he's clutch?

Best third down %age in the history of the game might be of interest.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:46:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
So let's say your QB goes 15-1 and has a good team, so he's not in position to have many comeback opportunities. How do you judge whether he's clutch?

Best third down %age in the history of the game might be of interest.


This has been a point that drives me nuts.

Eli is so clutch because he has so many 4th qtr comebacks and Rodgers doesn't.

Well, I ask, why does Eli always need to comeback in the first place? Isn't it better to be ahead so you don't need to come back? Almost 37% of Eli's wins are comebacks. I think I would prefer crappy comeback count and be able to watch from the side or hand the ball off to eat clock to preserve the win.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#38 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:56:01 AM(UTC)
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Sure, Eli Manning is a clutch QB, I'm fine with that. As nerdmann would say, he's got 2 'rings'.

I'd rather have a QB who dominates all four quarters than just shows up for the fourth.


And yet some people still think its a swipe at Aaron Rodgers because he's not clutch or doesn't have a lot of 4th quarter comebacks ... I dunno.

Eli Manning
W 69 L 50 .580

Aaron Rodgers
W 41 L 21 .661

Shrug
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Offline nerdmann  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:58:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Sure, Eli Manning is a clutch QB, I'm fine with that. As nerdmann would say, he's got 2 'rings'.

I'd rather have a QB who dominates all four quarters than just shows up for the fourth.


And yet some people still think its a swipe at Aaron Rodgers because he's not clutch or doesn't have a lot of 4th quarter comebacks ... I dunno.

Eli Manning
W 69 L 50 .580

Aaron Rodgers
W 41 L 21 .661

Shrug


Eli's overrated, imo. BUT, he does have two rings.

I'd consider him over Peyton, but then again I'm crazy.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:49:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Eli's overrated, imo. BUT, he does have two rings.

I'd consider him over Peyton, but then again I'm crazy.


Peyton is better in regular season. Eli is way better in post-season. Brett Favre has a better record than Peyton in post-season because Favre can carry a team on his back (or lose a game all by himself). Peyton can't do that.

Eli is clutch in post-season. I hate the guy. But historically, he has been clutch in post-season.

Now if you look at Aaron Rodgers in post-season, he's 4-2 so far. The first game he lost, he had a 121.4 rating, which should have been good enough for a win in 99% of Playoff games. Problem was, our D stunk and allowed Kurt Warner to have a similar performance.

2010 of course we won a SB and Aaron got SB MVP.

2011, he laid down a turd against the Giants. But so did Brett. I think the Giants have our number in post-season. Today's Giants are our Cows of the 90s. If we're gonna win it all, it's best if we avoid playing them.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:56:51 AM(UTC)
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Aaron Rodgers vs Giants at Lambeau
26 completions out of 46 attempts for %56.5 and 264 yards with 2 TD's and 1 INT while being sacked 4 times. I think the Packers had something like six drops too. Ugh. Drops.

I suppose its 'turd' if you compare to his previous 15 starts, lol. The INT was late in the game when it was already over, right?


Side Point... catching and tackling ... two of the three most important tasks in football and yet it seems they are lacking widespread in the NFL. Sad.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:27:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers vs Giants at Lambeau
26 completions out of 46 attempts for %56.5 and 264 yards with 2 TD's and 1 INT while being sacked 4 times. I think the Packers had something like six drops too. Ugh. Drops.

I suppose its 'turd' if you compare to his previous 15 starts, lol. The INT was late in the game when it was already over, right?


Side Point... catching and tackling ... two of the three most important tasks in football and yet it seems they are lacking widespread in the NFL. Sad.


I think 7 drops. And yes, Aaron Rodgers would have had a significantly higher passer rating had his receivers actually CAUGHT THE FREAKING BALL. But goes to show, it's a team sport.

Anyways, we agree on my original point - I could care less about 4th Q comebacks. I'd rather have a TEAM that blows away opponents and doesn't leave games to either the Kicker or the refs.
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Porforis on 10/2/2012(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 12:32:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
I think 7 drops. And yes, Aaron Rodgers would have had a significantly higher passer rating had his receivers actually CAUGHT THE FREAKING BALL. But goes to show, it's a team sport.

Anyways, we agree on my original point - I could care less about 4th Q comebacks. I'd rather have a TEAM that blows away opponents and doesn't leave games to either the Kicker or the refs.


I think we might be twins separated at birth.
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Offline porky88  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:28:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Peyton is better in regular season. Eli is way better in post-season. Brett Favre has a better record than Peyton in post-season because Favre can carry a team on his back (or lose a game all by himself). Peyton can't do that.

I recall the 2006 AFC Championship relying on Peyton's shoulders. I also recall several performances against the Broncos and Chiefs in which he had to put up monster numbers. He tore the Jets defense apart in the 2009 AFC Championship. They're plenty of examples of Peyton carrying a team on his back. Is he the best QB ever? I don't think so, but he's one of the best ever, and that's pretty telling.
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Offline nerdmann  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 2:29:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
I recall the 2006 AFC Championship relying on Peyton's shoulders. I also recall several performances against the Broncos and Chiefs in which he had to put up monster numbers. He tore the Jets defense apart in the 2009 AFC Championship. They're plenty of examples of Peyton carrying a team on his back. Is he the best QB ever? I don't think so, but he's one of the best ever, and that's pretty telling.


I've always looked at Peyton and Eli as their father's "revenge" on the NFL. Archie was a great QB, but he was stuck on a team that was never going to go anywhere.

Partially for this reason, I think Peyton wants it just a little too badly. I think he has a tendency to overprepare and thus, psych himself out.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#46 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 3:45:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
I recall the 2006 AFC Championship relying on Peyton's shoulders. I also recall several performances against the Broncos and Chiefs in which he had to put up monster numbers. He tore the Jets defense apart in the 2009 AFC Championship. They're plenty of examples of Peyton carrying a team on his back. Is he the best QB ever? I don't think so, but he's one of the best ever, and that's pretty telling.


Several of the best QBs ever are still in the NFL - our Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning. But Manning's had a very long career and only one ring. If Aaron Rodgers plays as long as Manning and only produces one ring, he'd be a letdown.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#47 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 3:54:24 PM(UTC)
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It sure isn't any shocker that some of the all time best quarterbacks are still actively playing in this massively offensive rule driven league, now is it?

LET THEM PLAY!!
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Offline zombieslayer  
#48 Posted : Tuesday, October 2, 2012 5:37:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
It sure isn't any shocker that some of the all time best quarterbacks are still actively playing in this massively offensive rule driven league, now is it?

LET THEM PLAY!!


That's true. I sincerely doubt Tom Brady or everyone's favorite Peyton Manning would be as good if they played in the Bart Starr era.

Brett Favre would be the same. Ben Rothlisburger would be the same. Those two guys are the two toughest QBs today.

Brees would be the same because even Aaron Rodgers admits that Brees' work ethic is the top of the top.
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Offline Akexpat  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, October 3, 2012 3:59:46 AM(UTC)
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for me, this quote from Rodgers is golden "I've had plenty of game-winning drives in the second and third quarters."

Personally, I could use less stress in the forth after an era of #4 in the wee hours of the morning, especially after the last 2 weeks of nail biters.

but to put it into perspective maybe, we saw the backup take the field and literally trip over himself at the goal line, I would personally like to see the D wrap up games and the Offense score +30 a game. That way I could relax and enjoy the game, but as a Packers fan for the last 30 years has taught me, that probably will never happen.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, October 3, 2012 5:18:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
That's true. I sincerely doubt Tom Brady or everyone's favorite Peyton Manning would be as good if they played in the Bart Starr era.

Brett Favre would be the same. Ben Rothlisburger would be the same. Those two guys are the two toughest QBs today.

Brees would be the same because even Aaron Rodgers admits that Brees' work ethic is the top of the top.


I think if Brett Favre started playing 10-12 years later, he'd be unanimously considered the best quarterback off all time. He took major risks and in this league now, those risks are heavily rewarded. My lord, can you imagine that?? I think 50 TD's would damn near be the norm for him, especially with pass happy McCarthy.
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