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Offline IronMan  
#1 Posted : Saturday, September 29, 2012 10:47:26 AM(UTC)
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Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read.

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Offline Cheesey  
#2 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2012 12:34:55 PM(UTC)
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Most people don't want to touch a posting like this.
I'm not most people.
I don't see how a standardized test can be racist. After all, WHITE kids have to pass it too, don't they?
It's actually the most UNracist way to handle it.
You have to pass the test reguardless of race, or what your grades were in school.
And as i think most people know, school grading does not actually mean the person that got the grade is "smart".

For example, i have a relative that graduated high school and couldn't read.
You think he could pass the test?
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Offline Porforis  
#3 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2012 12:58:33 PM(UTC)
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The NAACP has become a joke.
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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2012 1:24:26 PM(UTC)
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I have seen this kind of thing for years.

Chicago Public Schools did so bad on the standardized test that instead of trying to help the children score better, they did away with the test. They made their own (easier) test so the children would feel good about themselves. After a few years of using their test they school system and community leaders noticed that the scores were trending down. So instead of getting in there and actually teaching the kids the material they dummied down their easier version of the test.
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Offline Akexpat  
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 6:25:12 AM(UTC)
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I tend to agree if you can make sure that some sort of "Ceteris paribus" be enforced/promoted among schools and teaching. what I mean here is even though I came from a town of 250K there were some striking differences in teachers, schools (quality facilities etc.) and offerings between our "ghetto" neighborhood and the rich kids on the hillside community (I was part of the "red neck" school for what its worth).

I dont believe we should dumb down tests so kids feel better as well as I dont believe in everyone getting a participation award. We should be showing kids how to overcome problems rather than penalize and patronize them. I dont think any official paperwork should have race/ethnic background on it but in the same way I dont believe schools from good neighborhoods should benefit solely on there parents pocket books with endless fundraisers.

we need to make sure that everyone has an equal and unbiased shot and then judge the hell of them on performance :-D
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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 6:41:21 AM(UTC)
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Except Asians.
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Offline gbguy20  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:51:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
The NAACP has become a joke.


I'm pretty young, so I've always been under the impression that it is a joke. Was there a time when it was respectable?
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Offline Porforis  
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 6:17:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
I'm pretty young, so I've always been under the impression that it is a joke. Was there a time when it was respectable?


No, but I don't feel comfortable passing judgement on the organization before I was around and aware enough to observe what they said and did.
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Offline Wade  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:32:05 AM(UTC)
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I am old enough. Yes, the NAACP has been, for most of its existence, been a good, useful, and noble organization.

Liberal, yes. But liberal hasn't always been a synonym for moron. Not even the modern "statist" sort of liberal. It's only in the last twenty-five years or so that they've degenerated into their current state.

People like Jack Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, Gene McCarthy -- they were neither idiots like Pelosi and Biden or cynical manipulators like Reid and Obama. Heck, even Lyndon Johnson, the ultimate in traditional bare-knuckle dealmaking politician of the era, had a kind of liberal oomph that today's liberals lack. Many of their ideas were in hindsight pretty bad ones (IMO) , but these were thoughtful, reasonable men who simply did not have enough empirical evidence of the failure of welfare statism to realize that their ideas of social democracy were bad ones. They were still in an era where the Beveridge recommendations could be seen as the height of innovation for the common good. And they would have been appalled at the people now holding the liberal torch.

I'm not a liberal, not even of the Kennedy/Humphrey/McCarthy sort. I only voted lib in one fed election. (My first, when I voted for Gene McCarthy as a 3rd party candidate after almost killing him on Minnesota highways after picking him up at the Rochester airport.)

I blame Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill, Christopher Dodd, and Jesse Jackson for dumbing down liberal thinking. And partly I blame Reagan, because he reduced principled conservatism to "oh shucks" and "there you go again" and did it so successfully that both parties went with superficial populism and know-nothingism. Without them, idiots such as Pelosi and lightweights like Obama, and bad thinkers like Bernanke would never have made it to the national stage.

And of course the Ted Kennedys and Tip O'Neills and Chris Dodds would not have had that influence had the evil ideas of John Dewey and Andrew Carnegie about mass education taken control of the primary/secondary ed system.

But yes, gbguy20, the NAACP was once a respectable organization.
None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
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wpr on 11/1/2012(UTC), zombieslayer on 11/1/2012(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:03:50 AM(UTC)
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I blame a lot of their failings and poor reputation on Jesse Jack and others of his stature. he was more about grandstanding and personal glory than helping people.

I did admire Benjamin Hooks. He was the director from the late 70's until the early 90's.

I had forgotten that he said this but I remember if after finding it this morning.

Benjamin Hooks wrote:
“It’s time today... to bring it out of the closet: No longer can we proffer polite, explicable, reasons why Black America cannot do more for itself. I’m calling for a moratorium on excuses. I challenge black America today—all of us—to set aside our alibis.”


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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:29:02 AM(UTC)
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Standardized testing, itself is not racist. But I am not sure they are designed the way they should be. I believe testing should be done at least every 2 years 6th grade on.

My kids school, once in middle school, starts two separate learning tracks, Advanced and normal. The main difference is how advanced they two tracks get in Math and Science. You can't test both groups the same at the end when they are not taught the same. The testing should account for this. If a kid is not taught Calc, or Trig, they should not be tested on it.

And testing results should be looked at it like they were for advancing when I was in the Navy. 150 questions, throw out the 25 more answered wrong and 25 most answered correct and score on the remaining 100.

The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline Porforis  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:42:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Standardized testing, itself is not racist. But I am not sure they are designed the way they should be. I believe testing should be done at least every 2 years 6th grade on.

My kids school, once in middle school, starts two separate learning tracks, Advanced and normal. The main difference is how advanced they two tracks get in Math and Science. You can't test both groups the same at the end when they are not taught the same. The testing should account for this. If a kid is not taught Calc, or Trig, they should not be tested on it.

And testing results should be looked at it like they were for advancing when I was in the Navy. 150 questions, throw out the 25 more answered wrong and 25 most answered correct and score on the remaining 100.


I graduated from high school in 2005.

IF I remember correctly, there were standardized tests in 8th and 12th grades. There may have been more but I don't recall them.

As I recall, Algebra I and II and Geometry were the only required math classes for any students. Science, I think was just Biology, "Science", and one elective (Astronomy, Chemistry, various others).

I don't remember much about the science portion of the testing but I remember there being only a few Trig questions on the test. There were a few arithmetic, a bunch of algebra and some geometry. There was no calculus.

Obviously, a lot has changed since then but at least back in the day, the vast, vast majority of the testing for 12th grade students was on things the district required all students to take classes on.

One must also examine what these tests are trying to accomplish. Are they meant as a means of measuring of how well schools are teaching the essentials (required classes and subjects), or is there more emphasis on determining what students are learning?
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Offline wpr  
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:48:33 AM(UTC)
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Apparently it is not just Chicago schools. Rockford Register Star.

Quote:
Nearly 70 percent of Rock River Valley schools failed this year under the federal No Child Left Behind Act and its standards.

The results from the annual standardized tests, released today, are better than last year, when 73 percent of schools failed to reach Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP).

State officials say a new system of measuring progress is in the works, but scores may get worse before they get better because they will be based on national benchmarks, which are more rigorous than Illinois’ standards.

However, they add that students are not getting worse, but increased AYP standards are making it difficult to keep pace.

The expectation this year, according to AYP, is that 85 percent of students meet or exceed learning standards. That bar has steadily risen over the years, and by 2014, the expectation is that 100 percent of students will at least meet standards.

It’s a problem across the state, and it’s getting worse. In 2010, 51 percent of public schools were not making Adequate Yearly Progress. This year, it’s at 66 percent of schools and 82 percent of districts.

State Superintendent Christopher Koch said it’s time for a change in education and a change in how student achievement and growth are measured.

“We believe this is the last year we will be reporting (adequate yearly progress) results,” he said.

No Child Left Behind benchmarks require schools to have more students meeting standards each year. Those benchmarks have outpaced student achievement, meaning that more and more schools, each year, aren’t keeping pace.

Eliminating that measurement — and in turn, the “failing” label — is good news. This year, just 31 percent of schools are keeping pace with standardized test benchmarks.

By this time next year, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (No Child Left Behind) will be reauthorized, or Illinois will have a waiver, so AYP won’t be measured the way it is today.
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Offline gbguy20  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:49:39 AM(UTC)
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Porforis is right, there is absolutely no advanced math on these tests. It's just the basics.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#15 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:53:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I am old enough. Yes, the NAACP has been, for most of its existence, been a good, useful, and noble organization.

Liberal, yes. But liberal hasn't always been a synonym for moron. Not even the modern "statist" sort of liberal. It's only in the last twenty-five years or so that they've degenerated into their current state.

People like Jack Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, Gene McCarthy -- they were neither idiots like Pelosi and Biden or cynical manipulators like Reid and Obama. Heck, even Lyndon Johnson, the ultimate in traditional bare-knuckle dealmaking politician of the era, had a kind of liberal oomph that today's liberals lack. Many of their ideas were in hindsight pretty bad ones (IMO) , but these were thoughtful, reasonable men who simply did not have enough empirical evidence of the failure of welfare statism to realize that their ideas of social democracy were bad ones. They were still in an era where the Beveridge recommendations could be seen as the height of innovation for the common good. And they would have been appalled at the people now holding the liberal torch.

I'm not a liberal, not even of the Kennedy/Humphrey/McCarthy sort. I only voted lib in one fed election. (My first, when I voted for Gene McCarthy as a 3rd party candidate after almost killing him on Minnesota highways after picking him up at the Rochester airport.)

I blame Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill, Christopher Dodd, and Jesse Jackson for dumbing down liberal thinking. And partly I blame Reagan, because he reduced principled conservatism to "oh shucks" and "there you go again" and did it so successfully that both parties went with superficial populism and know-nothingism. Without them, idiots such as Pelosi and lightweights like Obama, and bad thinkers like Bernanke would never have made it to the national stage.

And of course the Ted Kennedys and Tip O'Neills and Chris Dodds would not have had that influence had the evil ideas of John Dewey and Andrew Carnegie about mass education taken control of the primary/secondary ed system.

But yes, gbguy20, the NAACP was once a respectable organization.


Holy smokes, Wade!

I never expected someone to think that closely to what I thought about liberals and conservatives.

And the NAACP. It's a shame the NAACP is what it is today as it was MUCH needed back then.

I loved JFK, hated what came after (LBJ's good intentions paved the way to Hell and led to the Pelosi's and the Biden's). And yes, I hate Ronald Reagan. I always get into arguments with people who THINK they're conservatives and they love Reagan. I simply tell them - "run the numbers. If you run the numbers, you'll find your hero Reagan is not a conservative and really an uber-liberal of the worst kind." Then they get all butt hurt as I just insulted their God.
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