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Offline DakotaT  
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 1:44:34 PM(UTC)
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We are not a focused football team. We commit stupid penalties, do not execute, and get out hustled by inferior competition. Give the Colts their due - they took the game from us.

And McCarthy needs to pull his head out of his ass and call a better game. 21-3 and doesn't even try running the ball the whole second half. I don't care if Benson was knocked out.
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yooperfan on 10/8/2012(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 1:50:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
We are not a focused football team. We commit stupid penalties, do not execute, and get out hustled by inferior competition. Give the Colts their due - they took the game from us.

And McCarthy needs to pull his head out of his ass and call a better game. 21-3 and doesn't even try running the ball the whole second half. I don't care if Benson was knocked out.

Mike McCarthy needs to hire a shrink to consult on actually having this team ready to play a full 60 once in awhile.

Same old same old.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline porky88  
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 3:13:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
MM needs to hire a shrink to consult on actually having this team ready to play a full 60 once in awhile.

Same old same old.

Perhaps McCarthy needs to hire someone to get him ready to coach.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
nerdmann on 10/7/2012(UTC)
Offline Rios39  
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 3:16:51 PM(UTC)
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The thing is whenever we tried to run Green would make a dumb cut and it'd be 2nd and 12 and we'd end up throwing. A few drives started out with runs that put us behind the 8 ball and then the game started to get close to where we had to throw because our runs were not going positive yardage post benson injury.

If we aren't going to run the ball we need to be shortening these routes up. I don't mind running a few deep routes but at least put some check down receivers out there.
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Offline StoicFire  
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 7:33:44 PM(UTC)
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I'm not a fan of all the McCarthy bashing no matter how bad this last loss was. He is an intelligent, prepared, accountable coach with one Super Bowl win so far.

A coach can only do so much though... at some point the players must execute as directed.
"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
Offline blueleopard  
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:58:38 PM(UTC)
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So was Jon Gruden. You don't see him on the field anymore.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:01:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: StoicFire Go to Quoted Post
I'm not a fan of all the McCarthy bashing no matter how bad this last loss was. He is an intelligent, prepared, accountable coach with one Super Bowl win so far.

A coach can only do so much though... at some point the players must execute as directed.


I'd actually rank Mike McCarthy as one of the top 5 play-callers in the NFL.
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Offline macbob  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 5:06:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
I'd actually rank Mike McCarthy as one of the top 5 play-callers in the NFL.


I'd agree for the most part, zombie. The exception being when he switches to his Madden video game offense, which unfortunately he's done more than once this year.

The latest being when we were up 18 at half and you'd kinda expect more runs to eat some time off the clock instead of pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass--which is how we started the 2nd half.

I put most of that on MM--the formations we came out in were shotguns. Wasn't Aaron Rodgers audibling out of a run to a pass unless Mike McCarthy had called a draw play from the shotgun.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#9 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:04:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
I'd agree for the most part, zombie. The exception being when he switches to his Madden video game offense, which unfortunately he's done more than once this year.

The latest being when we were up 18 at half and you'd kinda expect more runs to eat some time off the clock instead of pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass--which is how we started the 2nd half.

I put most of that on MM--the formations we came out in were shotguns. Wasn't Aaron Rodgers audibling out of a run to a pass unless Mike McCarthy had called a draw play from the shotgun.


Had Aaron Rodgers hit some of his underneath receivers instead of going for the 25+ yard completion, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I saw a few times where there was someone open underneath, but Aaron Rodgers gunned it for the guy deeper downfield.

I think that MVP went to Aaron Rodgers's head. He needs to take what he can get. Hate to say it, but maybe Aaron Rodgers should be watching more Tom Brady videos. Brady will take a 5 yard completion to open up another 5 yard completion to open up another 5 yard completion to open up the 40 yard completion.

That stuff chews up the clock almost as well as a running game does.
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Offline Porforis  
#10 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:36:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rios39 Go to Quoted Post
The thing is whenever we tried to run Green would make a dumb cut and it'd be 2nd and 12 and we'd end up throwing. A few drives started out with runs that put us behind the 8 ball and then the game started to get close to where we had to throw because our runs were not going positive yardage post benson injury.

If we aren't going to run the ball we need to be shortening these routes up. I don't mind running a few deep routes but at least put some check down receivers out there.


I am now convinced that our inability to run outside is a coaching issue first, line issue second. It didn't work well with Grant, it didn't work well with Starks, it hasn't worked well with Benson, and it was terrible with Green. You do need to run it outside at least a few times a game to keep the defense honest, but it sure would be nice to get positive yards once in a while rather than seeing the play develop so slowly and defenders swarming through.
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Offline go.pack.go.  
#11 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:51:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
I am now convinced that our inability to run outside is a coaching issue first, line issue second. It didn't work well with Grant, it didn't work well with Starks, it hasn't worked well with Benson, and it was terrible with Green. You do need to run it outside at least a few times a game to keep the defense honest, but it sure would be nice to get positive yards once in a while rather than seeing the play develop so slowly and defenders swarming through.


I'd actually have to disagree when you say that it hasn't worked with Benson. I have noticed a big difference in Benson this year compared to when Green was in the game or Starks last year or even Ryan Grant. I think Benson is a very good back and he's obviously better than anybody else we've had in a few years. Our offense went straight down hill yesterday when he got hurt.

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Offline play2win  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:04:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: StoicFire Go to Quoted Post
I'm not a fan of all the McCarthy bashing no matter how bad this last loss was. He is an intelligent, prepared, accountable coach with one Super Bowl win so far.

A coach can only do so much though... at some point the players must execute as directed.


No. Sorry, but this statement just does not hold water, not now. Prepared? How? Accountable? How? By saying he has to "fix this" in his post-game presser? Really? An intelligent, prepared and accountable coach will recognize a shift in momentum and make the necessary adjustments.

The real genius is Dakota T, for summing up our teams problems in two simple words: "NO FOCUS" - that is a top-down problem. We had so many players underperform yesterday, at nearly every position on the team, which speaks directly to Mike McCarthy and an ill-prepared team.

Accountability would have been on display had McCarthy fixed what went wrong in SEA. He didn't. Yesterday's 2nd half was the exact same story, different day, different team, same mistakes.
Offline play2win  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:07:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
I am now convinced that our inability to run outside is a coaching issue first, line issue second. It didn't work well with Grant, it didn't work well with Starks, it hasn't worked well with Benson, and it was terrible with Green. You do need to run it outside at least a few times a game to keep the defense honest, but it sure would be nice to get positive yards once in a while rather than seeing the play develop so slowly and defenders swarming through.


The only running play that I have seen work to the outside is when Cobb gets the call. I can't recall a single outside run that has worked with anyone other than Cobb.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:13:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. Go to Quoted Post
I'd actually have to disagree when you say that it hasn't worked with Benson. I have noticed a big difference in Benson this year compared to when Green was in the game or Starks last year or even Ryan Grant. I think Benson is a very good back and he's obviously better than anybody else we've had in a few years. Our offense went straight down hill yesterday when he got hurt.



The big difference with Benson IMO. Has been running between the tackles. Outside we still are no good at. Sure a play here or there may work. But mostly they do not. The defense seems to always beat our Oline to the edge. Our line has more ability to play steam rollers, than finese. We should only run outside on pitches. We have a chance with them.

Olineman take pride in run blocking. Abandoning it the way McCarthy does is a slap in the face to them.
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Offline go.pack.go.  
#15 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 12:31:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
The big difference with Benson IMO. Has been running between the tackles. Outside we still are no good at. Sure a play here or there may work. But mostly they do not. The defense seems to always beat our Oline to the edge. Our line has more ability to play steam rollers, than finese. We should only run outside on pitches. We have a chance with them.

Olineman take pride in run blocking. Abandoning it the way McCarthy does is a slap in the face to them.


I agree with everything you say here. We really don't have an outside run game whatsoever. It seems like Alex Green would be good at that, considering how quick/fast he is. But we also have to remember that he's 225 pounds as well. Randall Cobb is the only player on our team that has elite speed to get to the outside with this offensive line, in my opinion.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 12:37:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. Go to Quoted Post
Randall Cobb is the only player on our team that has elite speed to get to the outside with this offensive line, in my opinion.


40 yd dash
Randall Cobb - 4.46
Alex Green - 4.53


20 yd shuttle
Randall Cobb - 4.34
Alex Green - 4.15



http://www.nfl.com/draft...es/alex-green?id=2495287
http://www.nfl.com/draft.../randall-cobb?id=2495448
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Offline zombieslayer  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 12:54:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
The only running play that I have seen work to the outside is when Cobb gets the call. I can't recall a single outside run that has worked with anyone other than Cobb.


Yes. Cobb is the ONLY runner I saw who can make it outside. The others, we're lucky to get 2 yards with.

This is the way our OL is. It's actually pretty good this year at opening up holes in the middle. Why we're not running between the Tackles more, I have no idea. Besides the single play when Green tripped over his own feet, Green looked promising. We should have used him more. Or at least used him for a few screens.
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Offline play2win  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 2:05:01 PM(UTC)
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Yeah zombie, our OL does seem way better at run plays between the Tackles. I don't get their stretch plays either. Horrible.
Offline Rios39  
#19 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 4:13:59 PM(UTC)
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We need Starks back. He has the ability to get outside the edge and make some solid up the field runs. He had a solid average last year as well and that was not playing as much. Alex Green is explosive but he makes some poor cuts... We'll see what happens if they get him in the I formation and run the ball.

When Starks is back and hopefully at full strength we can use him and Benson in different roles. Remember we won the SB in a fairly large part due to Starks being a solid runner.
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Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 5:27:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rios39 Go to Quoted Post
We need Starks back. He has the ability to get outside the edge and make some solid up the field runs. He had a solid average last year as well and that was not playing as much. Alex Green is explosive but he makes some poor cuts... We'll see what happens if they get him in the I formation and run the ball.

When Starks is back and hopefully at full strength we can use him and Benson in different roles. Remember we won the SB in a fairly large part due to Starks being a solid runner.


They got down on Starks, because he wasn't assignment sure. There were numerous situations where Arodge was bitching at him on the field, after having failed to pick up a blitzer, or gotten the play wrong. Including this preseason.

Hopefully, he'll get it together.

Now, Mike McCarthy said last season that Saine was their most consistent guy at the position. Dude's got size and speed too. The rap on him is that he's raw.

We saw what Green can do in the last game. He can bust one for a large gain. Frankly Saine can do that too, and to some degree Starks as well, although he's not as fast as Saine and Green.

I'd like to see them run some of those Cobb screens to Green. He's got kind of a similar skill set, as a runner.
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Offline DakotaT  
#21 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 6:09:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post


The real genius is Dakota T, for summing up our teams problems in two simple words: "NO FOCUS" - that is a top-down problem. We had so many players underperform yesterday, at nearly every position on the team, which speaks directly to Mike McCarthy and an ill-prepared team.



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Offline StoicFire  
#22 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 6:15:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
No. Sorry, but this statement just does not hold water, not now. Prepared? How? Accountable? How? By saying he has to "fix this" in his post-game presser? Really? An intelligent, prepared and accountable coach will recognize a shift in momentum and make the necessary adjustments.

The real genius is Dakota T, for summing up our teams problems in two simple words: "NO FOCUS" - that is a top-down problem. We had so many players underperform yesterday, at nearly every position on the team, which speaks directly to Mike McCarthy and an ill-prepared team.

Accountability would have been on display had McCarthy fixed what went wrong in SEA. He didn't. Yesterday's 2nd half was the exact same story, different day, different team, same mistakes.


A bad result makes us all focus on what just happened and forget about the big picture. He is very prepared and very intelligent whether people want to admit it after a bad loss or not.

You said it yourself... so many players underperformed Sunday. Who is REALLY at fault when they [the players] underperform? McCarthy took responsibility because that is what good leaders do. And yeah, I do believe that McCarthy was caught off guard when Benson was lost to injury. I also believe that Capers was caught off guard when Raji was lost to injury. But neither of those things change my respect for either of those coaches.

Honestly though, I shouldn't have to defend these guys. Twenty years from now I'm sure I'll pay a visit to the McCarthy exhibit of the Packers Hall of Fame.
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#23 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 6:28:17 PM(UTC)
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We could get creative on offense with the guys we have. Wish the coaches wanted to do that...
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#24 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 6:32:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
40 yd dash
Randall Cobb - 4.46
Alex Green - 4.53


20 yd shuttle
Randall Cobb - 4.34
Alex Green - 4.15



http://www.nfl.com/draft...es/alex-green?id=2495287
http://www.nfl.com/draft.../randall-cobb?id=2495448


Brandon Saine

40yd dash - 4.40
20 yd shuttle 4.25

http://insider.espn.go.c..._/id/27259/brandon-saine
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Offline go.pack.go.  
#25 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 6:39:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
40 yd dash
Randall Cobb - 4.46
Alex Green - 4.53


20 yd shuttle
Randall Cobb - 4.34
Alex Green - 4.15



http://www.nfl.com/draft...es/alex-green?id=2495287
http://www.nfl.com/draft.../randall-cobb?id=2495448


Track time is way different than football speed though. I think it's obvious when you compare the two running on the football field that Randall Cobb is the one with elite speed.
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