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Offline Porforis  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 9:20:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Where the F was our pass rush? Against a depleted line? Our DL totaled 5 tackles and 1 sack. Those are piss poor numbers.


Did you even watch the game? We were knocking Luck around hard all game until Raji went down, after which we didn't get any interior push which allowed for doubleteams on Matthews. Heck, after a full game of what he went through in the first half I was wondering if we were going to send that kid to the hospital. He got whalloped more than a couple times.

This D Line isn't going to get many sacks, it's all about our linebackers... But it's hard for the linebackers to get home if the D line isn't generating interior pressure, and that starts with Raji.
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 9:46:41 AM(UTC)
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Not sure about mediocre, but maybe average. We look like an 8-8 or 9-7 at best team right now.
Offline Pack93z  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:20:06 AM(UTC)
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Are the Packers Mediocre?

Talent wise, no, I don't believe they are.

The level of play overall from them, yes, yes they are. Some of that is in direct relationship to the guy calling the offensive plays.

Defensively, overall, I think they have done a fair job overall with some of the situations they have been put into.

Offensively, I think they have to really look deep to what the opponents are taking away and adjust until they force the defense to come up and respect the run and screens. That means Mike McCarthy has to alter how he is calling plays, albeit I think he intended to be balanced yesterday until Benson was out.

Personally, I think Mike McCarthy performance more so than the teams has been the issue. And the team is a reflection of the head coach and his staff.

So would have to agree, through week five they are Mediocre at best.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline TexasPackerFan  
#19 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:22:21 AM(UTC)
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Unfortunately our SB hangover came at the end of last season and has carried on into this season. Hopefully we make an insane run again like we did in 2009/2010 when we were pretty much in the same position. Our 3 loses have been by a total of 13 points (yes it should only be 11 pts). While we can scream at our defense that averages to 4.33pts per game we're losing by so we're not getting blown out. We need to clean it up and pick things back up. Our offense is showing signs of being able to put up points again these past 2 games. Yes that 3rd quarter was horrendous but our D wasn't helping us out either. Now it the time to nut up to dig ourselves out like we have before.
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Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#20 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:25:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
Not sure about mediocre, but maybe average. We look like an 8-8 or 9-7 at best team right now.


Can you explain the distinction between mediocre and average?
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Offline Porforis  
#21 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:29:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay Go to Quoted Post
Can you explain the distinction between mediocre and average?


"Mediocre" carries a slight negative connotation to me and implies... Well, mediocrity.

me·di·o·cre/ˌmēdēˈōkər/
Adjective: Of only moderate quality; not very good: "a mediocre actor".

"Average" to me is a strictly neutral term. So as far as football goes, I'd call 9-7 or 8-8 average, 7-9 mediocre.
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Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#22 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:48:11 AM(UTC)
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I think the glaring thing to me is that the receiving corp does not have explosive speed minus Cobb.

The Seahawks provided the blueprint for the rest of the year of how to stop the packers.

Also, have u guys seen all the articles about how all the young rookies are bringing energy to the team?

Is that energy now negative?
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Offline gbguy20  
#23 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:54:12 AM(UTC)
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[nvm. delete this post.]
call me Dan
Offline Pack93z  
#24 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 11:24:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay Go to Quoted Post

The Seahawks provided the blueprint for the rest of the year of how to stop the packers.


Actually I think that went to the Chiefs last season.. and not all teams can pull it off.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 11:26:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
Did you even watch the game? We were knocking Luck around hard all game until Raji went down, after which we didn't get any interior push which allowed for doubleteams on Matthews. Heck, after a full game of what he went through in the first half I was wondering if we were going to send that kid to the hospital. He got whalloped more than a couple times.

This D Line isn't going to get many sacks, it's all about our linebackers... But it's hard for the linebackers to get home if the D line isn't generating interior pressure, and that starts with Raji.


Yes, I did. Why would you even ask such a question? Pickett, Worthy, Wilson and Neal had their asses handed to them, by an interior made up of 2nd and 3rd string OL.

"However, the Colts were far worse off starting the game, and with their ragtag roster it should have been too much for them to overcome against what was thought to be a playoff-caliber team.

Not only were they missing their two left guards, the starting center sat out and right guard Mike McGlynn left early in the third quarter. His replacement, Tony Hills, was activated Saturday from the practice squad after being with the Colts for 19 days." http://www.jsonline.com/...s/packers/173026821.html

Luck was sacked 4 times, all in the 1st half. Neal did a great job getting his. No other DL got a sack. Only 4 QB hits and only 5 tackles between the 5 that played, that includes Raji. Everybody disappeared in the 2nd half. By rights, this group of Pick, Worthy, Neal and Wilson should have buried Luck in the 2nd half. It didn't happen. Seems we lose every time we keep Daniels inactive. I was hoping Ted would keep more beef here. Instead, he went pretty thin on our DL. Now, when a guy like Raji goes down, we have no back up. Makes no sense to me.

The DL is just one group that underperformed in my opinion. There is bigger blame to go around, but being a team game, they cannot just disappear for an entire half and expect their team to win.
Offline play2win  
#26 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 11:35:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Are the Packers Mediocre?

Talent wise, no, I don't believe they are.

The level of play overall from them, yes, yes they are. Some of that is in direct relationship to the guy calling the offensive plays.

Defensively, overall, I think they have done a fair job overall with some of the situations they have been put into.

Offensively, I think they have to really look deep to what the opponents are taking away and adjust until they force the defense to come up and respect the run and screens. That means Mike McCarthy has to alter how he is calling plays, albeit I think he intended to be balanced yesterday until Benson was out.

Personally, I think Mike McCarthy performance more so than the teams has been the issue. And the team is a reflection of the head coach and his staff.

So would have to agree, through week five they are Mediocre at best.


Yep. We could be 4-1. We should be 4-1. We could just as easily be 1-4. I think this team is playing more like the 1-4 than 4-1. Severely underperforming, and that points to coaching and a lack of preparation and discipline in execution.

Dropped passes by great WRs and TEs. Dropped INTs by great DBs and Ss. Ineffective OL play and even worse, horrific play calling has Rodgers running for his life. This is a really ugly start, but I'm not giving up as a fan. The team is better than they are showing now. McCarthy needs to get them back on track.
Offline Porforis  
#27 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 11:41:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I did. Why would you even ask such a question? Pickett, Worthy, Wilson and Neal had their asses handed to them, by an interior made up of 2nd and 3rd string OL.

"However, the Colts were far worse off starting the game, and with their ragtag roster it should have been too much for them to overcome against what was thought to be a playoff-caliber team.

Not only were they missing their two left guards, the starting center sat out and right guard Mike McGlynn left early in the third quarter. His replacement, Tony Hills, was activated Saturday from the practice squad after being with the Colts for 19 days." http://www.jsonline.com/...s/packers/173026821.html

Luck was sacked 4 times, all in the 1st half. Neal did a great job getting his. No other DL got a sack. Only 4 QB hits and only 5 tackles between the 5 that played, that includes Raji. Everybody disappeared in the 2nd half. By rights, this group of Pick, Worthy, Neal and Wilson should have buried Luck in the 2nd half. It didn't happen. Seems we lose every time we keep Daniels inactive. I was hoping Ted would keep more beef here. Instead, he went pretty thin on our DL. Now, when a guy like Raji goes down, we have no back up. Makes no sense to me.

The DL is just one group that underperformed in my opinion. There is bigger blame to go around, but being a team game, they cannot just disappear for an entire half and expect their team to win.


Of course we'd love to see our D line get as many sacks as possible, but I guess what I'm saying is that paying attention to numbers too much can be deceiving. If you look at Clay Matthews' numbers last year alone without watching a game, you'd think he stunk it up. Having watched or listened to every game though, it's obvious that nobody in the front 7 and arguably the entire defense made more of an impact than Matthews. We're overloaded with talent, especially pass-rushing talent at linebacker. Our D-Line could certainly be better, but even if we had 3 Rajis up front, I would expect our linebackers to get at least 3x the sacks that the D line does. All the line needs to do is eat up blockers and push them in the quarterback's face. Once Raji went out we had no push upfront, nobody that demanded attention. This is indeed a problem, but you can't just chalk it up to the D line. We let Reggie Wayne tear us apart without even THINKING about double or triple covering him (Yet we thought we needed to double and triple Randy Moss earlier this year), the DBs dropped 4 or 5 picks that ranged from easy to moderately difficult that easily could have swung this game at least 7 points, probably more.

It was a complete team failure on defense, excluding maybe the linebackers, and the Offense didn't adjust.
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Offline play2win  
#28 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 1:06:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
Of course we'd love to see our D line get as many sacks as possible, but I guess what I'm saying is that paying attention to numbers too much can be deceiving. If you look at Clay Matthews' numbers last year alone without watching a game, you'd think he stunk it up. Having watched or listened to every game though, it's obvious that nobody in the front 7 and arguably the entire defense made more of an impact than Matthews. We're overloaded with talent, especially pass-rushing talent at linebacker. Our D-Line could certainly be better, but even if we had 3 Rajis up front, I would expect our linebackers to get at least 3x the sacks that the D line does. All the line needs to do is eat up blockers and push them in the quarterback's face. Once Raji went out we had no push upfront, nobody that demanded attention. This is indeed a problem, but you can't just chalk it up to the D line. We let Reggie Wayne tear us apart without even THINKING about double or triple covering him (Yet we thought we needed to double and triple Randy Moss earlier this year), the DBs dropped 4 or 5 picks that ranged from easy to moderately difficult that easily could have swung this game at least 7 points, probably more.

It was a complete team failure on defense, excluding maybe the linebackers, and the Offense didn't adjust.


Absolutely, complete team failure. As I mentioned, there is bigger blame to go around than on the DL, but those guys did get handled in the 2nd half against their 2nd/3rd string OGs and C. The O certainly is not helping the D - and that is 5 weeks, uh, running. Really poor word choice there by me... ugh. We are not controlling anything with our offense.

The dominant teams in this league can run the football, contrary to what some say here. Probably the hottest team in the NFL is SF, and Alex Smith just had his 3rd 300 + yd passing day in 8 seasons. They run. So do the Patriots, throwing down another W with 200+ yds rushing. Haven't checked most leading teams, but I would venture ATL and HOU are doing just fine running the football.

Also, key drops by Finley are really starting to get to me as a fan. Last week I stuck up for him in the stands at Lambeau when the DB made a great play to knock it away. Two ladies behind us going off on him when it wasn't his fault. Nonetheless, there are a ton of other drops he is responsible for that are killing drives. Super frustrating.

Lots of blame to go around, adding to the perception that maybe we are mediocre. The Packers are doing nothing special, and need a kick in the ass. All of them.
Offline Porforis  
#29 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 1:13:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Absolutely, complete team failure. As I mentioned, there is bigger blame to go around than on the DL, but those guys did get handled in the 2nd half against their 2nd/3rd string OGs and C. The O certainly is not helping the D - and that is 5 weeks, uh, running. Really poor word choice there by me... ugh. We are not controlling anything with our offense.

The dominant teams in this league can run the football, contrary to what some say here. Probably the hottest team in the NFL is SF, and Alex Smith just had his 3rd 300 + yd passing day in 8 seasons. They run. So do the Patriots, throwing down another W with 200+ yds rushing. Haven't checked most leading teams, but I would venture ATL and HOU are doing just fine running the football.

Also, key drops by Finley are really starting to get to me as a fan. Last week I stuck up for him in the stands at Lambeau when the DB made a great play to knock it away. Two ladies behind us going off on him when it wasn't his fault. Nonetheless, there are a ton of other drops he is responsible for that are killing drives. Super frustrating.

Lots of blame to go around, adding to the perception that maybe we are mediocre. The Packers are doing nothing special, and need a kick in the ass. All of them.


Did Finley have more than one this week? I remember one, but it wasn't bad as DD's which was an easy one. Overall, it didn't seem like we had the dropsies this week on offense... We just didn't get open, and when we ran the ball more often than not it was to the outside where we haven't been effective in a loooong time.

One MAJOR issue I haven't seen anybody bring up: Is it just me, or have teams been getting loads of interior penetration on field goals and extra points in every game? Especially when faced with two long FGs, you wonder if that played at all into Crosby's approach or if it got in his head that if he kicked it too low it might get blocked.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#30 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 1:25:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post


The dominant teams in this league can run the football, contrary to what some say here.


You're absolutely right and I'm absolutely wrong. Last year's SB winner was the Giants who were ranked 32 out of 32 in running. the year before it was the Packers who were ranked 24 out of 32 in rushing. Before that, the Saints who were 6 out of 32 in rushing. Before that, it was the Steelers who were 23 out of 32 in rushing.

What do those teams have in common? All those teams led the NFL in rushing.

Well, there you go. There's our problem. Screw the pass. Let's lead the NFL in rushing so we can win the SB. Think




Sarcasm aside, the key to winning a game is Passer Rating Differential. You can read all about the correlation here:
http://www.coldhardfootb...ts.com/stats/2012/5/PRD/

Dexter_Sinister wrote up a really nice article last year about it and how it correlated with Super Bowl wins historically.

As for correlation between rushing success and winning, there is NONE WHATSOEVER. I checked the stats. It had as much correlation as how many times a Vikings fan picks his nose vs how successful people in the East Coast are at catching salmon.
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