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Offline RajiRoar  
#26 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:05:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post


why is this shit so obvious to EVERYONE but NOTHING gets done about it?

it's been the same shit every week!

long developing plays = sacks! esspecially when the D is taking away the deep routs you are constantly forcing....

what ever happened to our "bread and butter" slants? quick passing game that was emphasized ALL offseason?


we are 5 weeks in and we havn't fixed anything.

Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall


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Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
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Wade on 10/8/2012(UTC), yooperfan on 10/8/2012(UTC), zombieslayer on 10/8/2012(UTC)
Offline macbob  
#27 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 4:49:28 AM(UTC)
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In my opinion, Tom Silverstein article from the Journal Sentinel summed things up pretty well, though I think he puts more on McCarthy and not enough on our O & D not executing in the second half than I would. It required an all-around effort to lose that game, not just the coaching:

JSOnline wrote:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-running-game-goes-down-after-benson-injured-fm7444e-173061901.html

Indianapolis - Coach Mike McCarthy often talks about the "next man up" when it comes to dealing with injuries, but in a devastating loss to a team hardly equipped to deal with his Green Bay Packers, McCarthy forgot his own code.

The Packers (2-3) may never recover this season from a 30-27 loss to the Indianapolis Colts at Lucas Oil Stadium, but they did have a chance to remain afloat inside the dome after losing leading rusher Cedric Benson with a sprained foot.

According to the next man up observance, second-year back Alex Green should have stepped in and assumed Benson's role, allowing McCarthy to stick to his original game plan.

Had McCarthy actually done so, the game Sunday might have been different. After two quarters of limited opportunity, Green busted off a 41-yard run that turned the game around. One play later, receiver James Jones scored on an 8-yard touchdown pass to give the Packers a 27-22 lead with just over 4 minutes left.

Green's run was the longest by a Packer since Dec. 11 of last year and only the team's fourth run of 40 or more yards since the start of the 2010 season. It came on just his 11th carry of the season.

Given the success the offense had in building a 21-3 lead with Benson gaining a modest 20 yards on seven carries, it's possible the game would have been different if Green had been used similarly. Before getting hurt, Benson thought the Packers were on their way to a good running day.

"I had a good feeling that it would be a big game, not only for me but every skill position, every player," Benson said afterward, a medical boot on his left foot. "It's just surprising that it didn't."

Benson said his foot swelled up too much to continue after a Colts player landed on it, following a 3-yard reception. He said he had faith that the "next man up" would be able to pick up where he left off.

Only McCarthy didn't give him a chance.

After calling eight runs in the 17 plays leading up to Benson's injury, McCarthy called just nine in the next 42 times quarterback Aaron Rodgers took a snap. It's not known how many of those plays Rodgers changed from runs to passes at the line of scrimmage.

Green created some doubt about his effectiveness with five of his carries totaling minus-3 yards.

But after playing to stop Benson in the first half, the Colts seemed content to turn on their jets and go after Rodgers with no fear of being gashed by the run in the second half. Rodgers was sacked five times after halftime.

"We have to make sure we're able to run the ball," guard Josh Sitton said. "We have to have that variety. We're not the same team as last year, obviously. We can't sit back there and throw the ball 20 times in a row to be successful.

"We have to run the ball and have the confidence in the play caller to call the run and we need to run the ball."

The Packers clearly aren't the 2011 team that set franchise records for passing yards and points. In five games, they have scored 112 points, 61 fewer than they scored in the first five last year. They topped 390 yards in each of their five games last year and have topped it just once this year.

Going into the game, Colts players said the pass game was not their primary concern.

"Take care of Cedric Benson, first of all, stopping the run," end Cory Redding said. "And then two, getting on the passer, mixing it up on the back end where you can't read our coverages as much and trying to eliminate the big plays."

With Benson presenting something of a threat, Rodgers got some one-on-one matchups with his receivers, some he took advantage of and some he didn't. His worst miss was a third and 6 on the first series when he overthrew an open Jordy Nelson down the right sideline.

But Rodgers was able to stretch the field and engineered touchdown drives of 56, 65 and 66 yards on the way to a 21-3 halftime lead.

"I thought we moved the ball well today," said receiver James Jones, who stayed hot with four catches for 46 yards and two touchdowns. "Second half, the first four drives they got us, but first half we moved the ball up and down the field and probably left another score out there.

"We just have to be consistent."

The first series of the second half gave Indianapolis life.

McCarthy threw on all four plays, one of which resulted in a holding penalty and another an interception. The interception came on a third and 2 from the Packers' 28.

The next series was three passes, one of which resulted in a 5-yard sack and another an illegal forward pass. Green got the ball three times on the next series, but he managed 1, 1 and minus-4 yards on a drive that ended with kicker Mason Crosby missing the first of two 50-yard-plus field goals.

After that, Green carried just two more times before breaking off his 41-yard run.

He admitted it might have taken him a little while to get acclimated, especially since he had carried only twice this season after an off-season rehabilitating a knee reconstruction. But he said he got enough practice snaps this week to be prepared.

"Yeah, I hadn't played this much this year," Green said. "I guess you could say that, (that) it took a little while to get used to the defense and things like that and get situated with the offense and things like that.

"But once the ball got to me I tried to make the best play possible. One thing about being a running back is getting downhill, so I just tried to do the best I could do to get downhill and not mess up."

Green's 41-yard run was an inside zone play where the seas parted nicely for him and he was able to run past the linebackers and down the sideline. Of all the backs the Packers have, Green is the fastest and he showed it on that carry.

He finished with 55 yards on nine carries.

"We have to figure out a way to win these games," Sitton said. "I know it's not easy to win in this league. It's pretty obvious. We jump out and same story, we get shut down. We have to close out the game. We have to find a way at the end."
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Offline Wade  
#28 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 5:17:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
why is this shit so obvious to EVERYONE but NOTHING gets done about it?

it's been the same shit every week!

long developing plays = sacks! esspecially when the D is taking away the deep routs you are constantly forcing....

what ever happened to our "bread and butter" slants? quick passing game that was emphasized ALL offseason?


we are 5 weeks in and we havn't fixed anything.

Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall


Well, we did have one screen pass.Sarcasm

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#29 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:14:49 AM(UTC)
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Offline zombieslayer  
#30 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:15:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
why is this shit so obvious to EVERYONE but NOTHING gets done about it?

it's been the same shit every week!

long developing plays = sacks! esspecially when the D is taking away the deep routs you are constantly forcing....

what ever happened to our "bread and butter" slants? quick passing game that was emphasized ALL offseason?


we are 5 weeks in and we havn't fixed anything.

Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall


My man Donald Driver
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Offline play2win  
#31 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:44:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
why is this shit so obvious to EVERYONE but NOTHING gets done about it?

it's been the same shit every week!

long developing plays = sacks! esspecially when the D is taking away the deep routs you are constantly forcing....

what ever happened to our "bread and butter" slants? quick passing game that was emphasized ALL offseason?


we are 5 weeks in and we havn't fixed anything.

Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall


Absolutely. This was a pathetic job of play calling by the Packers. Either it is on Clements or Rodgers for the actual calls, but McCarthy is ultimately responsible. Horrible, pathetic job either way.
Offline play2win  
#32 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:47:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post


"We're up 21-3 at halftime and we sort of changed our game plan in the second half and we couldn't do (expletive)," an obviously angry guard T.J. Lang said. "They knew all we were doing was throwing the ball so they were coming with everything they had."

This was not the first time we've been in this situation. How stupid is the man who keeps making the same mistakes over and over, expecting different results? McCarthy needs to change this, and damn fast.

Genius.... Really???
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#33 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:50:03 AM(UTC)
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Last 4 qtrs. When running the ball, 0 sacks. When not running, something like 13.

Do we need to have more reason than that?
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Offline zombieslayer  
#34 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 3:53:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Last 4 qtrs. When running the ball, 0 sacks. When not running, something like 13.

Do we need to have more reason than that?


Just had to do some fact checking. 3rd Q vs the Colts:
Quote:


Green Bay - 0:15
1st-10, GB25 0:15 A. Green rushed up the middle for 2 yard loss

4th Quarter

Green Bay continued
2nd-12, GB23 15:00 A. Rodgers incomplete pass down the middle
3rd-12, GB23 14:57 A. Rodgers sacked by D. Freeney
4th-16, GB19 14:26 T. Masthay punt. T. Hilton returned punt for 7 yards


4th Q vs the Colts:
Quote:


Green Bay - 7:58
1st-10, GB26 7:58 A. Rodgers passed to J. Jones to the right for 24 yard gain
1st-10, 50 7:28 A. Green rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, IND45 6:53 A. Rodgers sacked by M. Fokou
3rd-11, GB49 6:22 A. Rodgers sacked by C. Redding
4th-18, GB42 5:47 T. Masthay punt, no return


I don't think it was that simple. I think during half-time, the Colts' coach must have given one hell of a half-time speech that fired up the Colts while we got complacent.
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Offline Rios39  
#35 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 4:15:21 PM(UTC)
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We are going to need to shorten up the routes and run the ball out of the I formation maybe even bring the wishbone back..
blank
Offline wpr  
#36 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 5:07:53 PM(UTC)
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Packers Are Terrible When They Don’t Run

Quote:
We’ve been harping on this theme for a number of weeks, but now we actually have some numbers to the prove the point — the Green Bay Packers are terrible when they don’t run the ball.

Since 2010, when the Packers drop back to pass more than 70 percent of the time they’re 2-8. They’ve now done that three times this season and they’ve lost each game.

Sunday was another one of those occasions. The Packers dropped back to pass 74 percent of the time. You saw what happened. The Colts defense teed off the Packers shitty offensive line, sacking quarterback Aaron Rodgers five times. They also dropped both of their safeties so the deep ball was nowhere to be found.

Still, Mike McCarthy decided to go out there and wing it around anyway.

Buffoon!

The Packers were well on their way to a probable blowout of the Colts in the first half. Then running back Cedric Benson went down. While he was in the game, the Packers were running nearly as much as they were passing (53 percent). After he left, the Packers passed 77 percent of the time.

In the Packers other two losses this season, they passed 85 percent of the time against the 49ers and 78 percent of the time against Seattle.

See a pattern here, buffoon?

Ah, fuck it, let’s just go deep on every play. We’re bound to hit a couple of them!

For the record, the Packers are 29-3 since 2010 when they pass less than 70 percent of the time.


Somewhat distorted "stat". It doesn't take into account the fact that you pass more when trailing (not this week.) and run more when you are up by 2-3 scores.
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play2win on 10/9/2012(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#37 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 5:30:23 PM(UTC)
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We all know what is going on with that.

So, apparently does TJ Lang.

Everybody knows what this team needs to do in order to win.

Now all Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers have to do is, THAT.

There's no excuse this year. The defense is improved.
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Offline macbob  
#38 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 7:34:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Packers Are Terrible When They Don’t Run



Somewhat distorted "stat". It doesn't take into account the fact that you pass more when trailing (not this week.) and run more when you are up by 2-3 scores.


True, WPR, but Mike McCarthy has been abandoning the run in close games (or, as in this week, when we were ahead).

For example, first half of the Seahawks games 27 passes, 3 runs. Score was 0-0 until 6:22 left in the 2nd quarter.
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Offline yooperfan  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 4:16:56 AM(UTC)
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I would like to see the Packers run the ball 25 times a game and use a short quick throw passing game.
I'm tired of seeeing Rodgers holding unto the ball looking for the "long bomb" and ultimately getting smucked.
McCarthy is obviously a stubborn man and I don't expect him to change though.
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wpr on 10/9/2012(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 8:08:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
I would like to see the Packers run the ball 25 times a game and use a short quick throw passing game.
I'm tired of seeeing Rodgers holding unto the ball looking for the "long bomb" and ultimately getting smucked.
McCarthy is obviously a stubborn man and I don't expect him to change though.


I would just like to see Aaron Rodgers release the **** ball instead of trying to setup the long bomb every play. I saw a few receivers open underneath when Aaron Rodgers ignored them and looked deep vs the Colts. We need to stop doing that.
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Offline nerdmann  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:35:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
I would just like to see Aaron Rodgers release the **** ball instead of trying to setup the long bomb every play. I saw a few receivers open underneath when Aaron Rodgers ignored them and looked deep vs the Colts. We need to stop doing that.


Indeed. And shorter, high percentage passes are far less likely to be dropped.

Let them get YAC. We'll still get the long gainers.
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Offline Pack93z  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:27:09 AM(UTC)
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What do you want from a running game? That is the question.

If you simply want to pause, even briefly, the pass rush, yes just attempts will do that.

But if you want the second level of the defense to respect the run, you have to have some effectiveness to it. Just running the ball into the pile will affect the coverage very little if the point of attack is taking care of the run.

So yes, the yards gained, more precisely the yards per carry do impact a defense.

Last season, all we needed to do was rack up the running attempts to pause the pass rush and allow the offensive line to gain an advantage in time and setup.

This season, I think we have to run the ball and affect the second level of the defense with it to force the defense to come out of taking the deep portion of the field away. Once we maintain balance the defense really is going to have to play us honest and it will start to open up that vertical aspect that Rodgers is craving. Patience and balance.

**EDIT**

The above isn't touching down and distance impacts on the play calling and conversion and the impact upon the defense as well.

Message modified by user Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:05:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline play2win  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:30:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
What do you want from a running game? That is the question.

If you simply want to pause, even briefly, the pass rush, yes just attempts will do that.

But if you want the second level of the defense to respect the run, you have to have some effectiveness to it. Just running the ball into the pile with affect the coverage very little if the point of attack is taking care of the run.

So yes, the yards gained, more precisely the yards per carry do impact a defense.

Last season, all we needed to do was rack up the running attempts to pause the pass rush and allow the offensive line to gain an advantage in time and setup.

This season, I think we have to run the ball and affect the second level of the defense with it to force the defense to come out of taking the deep portion of the field away. Once we maintain balance the defense really is going to have to play us honest and it will start to open up that vertical aspect that Rodgers is craving. Patience and balance.

**EDIT**

The above isn't touching down and distance impacts on the play calling and conversion and the impact upon the defense as well.


All I know is that we look like a bunch of fucking powder puffs out there on offense, and that is really, really demeaning to powder puffs. I'm sorry to any who might be reading this.

The simple fix is letting your OL tee off on the guy in front of them, with regularity. We have good enough RBs. They will reach the 2nd level if we only give the run game a chance. In my opinion, that is where McCarthy is failing big time. He is failing his OL by forcing them into impossible situations by passing the majority of the time. He is failing his defense with these ridiculous 3 & outs. He is failing Rodgers by putting him more at risk. He is also failing us fans who want to see a winner. Granted, the team has to execute, but the game plans, preparation and play calling leave a lot to be desired.

How hard can it be to call 25+ running plays? It is an attitude thing. We should be mauling other defenses.
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Offline Pack93z  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:44:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
All I know is that we look like a bunch of fucking powder puffs out there on offense, and that is really, really demeaning to powder puffs. I'm sorry to any who might be reading this.

The simple fix is letting your OL tee off on the guy in front of them, with regularity. We have good enough RBs. They will reach the 2nd level if we only give the run game a chance. In my opinion, that is where McCarthy is failing big time. He is failing his OL by forcing them into impossible situations by passing the majority of the time. He is failing his defense with these ridiculous 3 & outs. He is failing Rodgers by putting him more at risk. He is also failing us fans who want to see a winner. Granted, the team has to execute, but the game plans, preparation and play calling leave a lot to be desired.

How hard can it be to call 25+ running plays? It is an attitude thing. We should be mauling other defenses.


I concur.. 100%.

If I had my druthers.. I would design a team in the model of a balanced team. Probably even run first, however the current NFL rules would sway that. If you can effectively run the ball, you control the game. If you have a QB worth his salt, he is going to find success in the passing game with an effective running game behind him.

Basically you dictate to opposition and that carries over into the defense as well.

Trying to pass first allows the defense to sort of dictate to you, you are going to take what they give you in coverage. That is not how I want a football team to be modeled.. I want that control. I want to dictate pace, the emotions and the clock of that game.

A locker room is a funny place, a bunch of hyper and testosterone flowing guys that feed off emotion of the game. The big hits.. the small victories within a game. There is nothing like punching the rock down someones throat and them looking at you like there is nothing they can do. Whipped. I have been on both sides of that coin at the lower levels.. there is nothing like that natural high.

I truly believe that is why we seem to play to the level of the competition often and at times (lately most of the time) seem to lack fire. We are a opportunistic type team in place of a dictating type team. We don't take what we want.. we take the path of least resistance.

Balance gives you more room for error, and in the NFL, every little edge or play may mean a win or a loss.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Rios39  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
I would just like to see Aaron Rodgers release the **** ball instead of trying to setup the long bomb every play. I saw a few receivers open underneath when Aaron Rodgers ignored them and looked deep vs the Colts. We need to stop doing that.



He's looked up to guys like Montana, Favre, Brady ect... Well they knew how to drive down the field and take what the defense gives them. You would NEVER see Montana hold onto the ball this long looking for 30+ yard strikes. In 2007 we never had a running game till Grant came on strong which took us to a new level but early on we were getting by just fine with Favre dinking and dunking his way down the field then occasionally hitting the long pass.

In 2009 we were trying this same BS. Then we got our backs against the wall and had to beat some pretty good teams like the ravens and cowboys to make the playoffs and started throwing shorter passes, slants and driving the fields length. Then the closer we got to the playoffs in came the long routes again, which you can't really complain about with the results of the steelers and cardinals game but Rodgers was JUST getting the ball out at times and took some hits. In the Cardinals game he threw a few balls that should have been picked off.

This is the kind of stuff that a coach like Belichick does NOT let happen. Sdjustments come fast. I've watched a few Patriots games where Brady wasn't getting protected and the pass rush was pretty intense but after a few series they adjusted. Started throwing some short patterns, run the ball a little bit ect.
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Offline play2win  
#46 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:01:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
I concur.. 100%.

If I had my druthers.. I would design a team in the model of a balanced team. Probably even run first, however the current NFL rules would sway that. If you can effectively run the ball, you control the game. If you have a QB worth his salt, he is going to find success in the passing game with an effective running game behind him.

Basically you dictate to opposition and that carries over into the defense as well.

Trying to pass first allows the defense to sort of dictate to you, you are going to take what they give you in coverage. That is not how I want a football team to be modeled.. I want that control. I want to dictate pace, the emotions and the clock of that game.

A locker room is a funny place, a bunch of hyper and testosterone flowing guys that feed off emotion of the game. The big hits.. the small victories within a game. There is nothing like punching the rock down someones throat and them looking at you like there is nothing they can do. Whipped. I have been on both sides of that coin at the lower levels.. there is nothing like that natural high.

I truly believe that is why we seem to play to the level of the competition often and at times (lately most of the time) seem to lack fire. We are a opportunistic type team in place of a dictating type team. We don't take what we want.. we take the path of least resistance.

Balance gives you more room for error, and in the NFL, every little edge or play may mean a win or a loss.


That was palpable in last night's HOU v. NYJ game. HOU forced their will on the Jets. Beat them down with the run. The Jets D looked completely gassed. For the Packers, the beauty is that we have the talent to throw down in similar fashion. Mike just needs to call it. I think our passing attack would become way more potent as a result, and our D would benefit from less reps.

HOU's D has the fewest reps in the NFL. No wonder they are rated #3 overall, behind only SEA and SF, two more teams who have no problems calling 32+ attempts per game - that is their average attempts. All of them. HOU #2 rushing. SEA #4. SF #6.
Offline macbob  
#47 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 4:44:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
That was palpable in last night's HOU v. NYJ game. HOU forced their will on the Jets. Beat them down with the run. The Jets D looked completely gassed. For the Packers, the beauty is that we have the talent to throw down in similar fashion. Mike just needs to call it. I think our passing attack would become way more potent as a result, and our D would benefit from less reps.

HOU's D has the fewest reps in the NFL. No wonder they are rated #3 overall, behind only SEA and SF, two more teams who have no problems calling 32+ attempts per game - that is their average attempts. All of them. HOU #2 rushing. SEA #4. SF #6.


What I liked about Houston's offense was the mix of plays. They'd run the ball out of a running formation (rather than a draw out of the shotgun), then follow it up with a play-action pass. Because of the run, the LBs had to honor the run threat, couldn't just drop back in zone, and the middle of the field was open for the pass. Next play another run from the I, followed by another play-action pass. As a result, Hou is dominating time of possession 60-40%.
Mike McCarthy too many times has pretty much abandoned that type of game plan. I just hope Mike McCarthy is paying attention as he watches the Hou-Jets film to get ready for this week's game.
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Offline Pack93z  
#48 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:06:01 PM(UTC)
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So on another board.. in the same type of argument we have been wagering for some time, with Zombie finally conceding I may add (lol), I took it to task to look at the Rodgers tenure in numbers when we run more than 20 times vs less than 20 times a game.


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In almost every case, running the ball has a positive effect on the team. From sacks to defense to yard per pass attempt, all for the sacrifice of 1.55 pass attempts a game.

The winning percentage looks at only those amount of games, IE when we rush more than 20 times, we win 80% of those games.


Damn auto sizing.. lol... attached the image.
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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#49 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2012 5:13:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
So on another board


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Offline Pack93z  
#50 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2012 5:43:06 AM(UTC)
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No traitor here.


But later today I will throw Zombie a bone.. because the numbers that I thought were going to be there with ypc, just are not what they appear to be. Color me shocked.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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