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Offline K_Buz  
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:01:05 PM(UTC)
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Woodson is done...D-O-N-E...DONE.

The guy came into Green Bay and gave us some good years, but you can stick a fork in him now. He's a liability out there.
Offline Pack93z  
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:07:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: K_Buz Go to Quoted Post
Woodson is done...D-O-N-E...DONE.

The guy came into Green Bay and gave us some good years, but you can stick a fork in him now. He's a liability out there.


As a corner, I agree, but as a safety.. I will disagree.

I would say against quality receivers, Wayne is one of them, his man on man coverage days are over.

But there is much football left in that cat. A ton.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:37:11 PM(UTC)
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Wait. How did Woodson get the goat of that game? He's been doing pretty well this year so far. In the first four games, he's got 1.5 sacks, 1 INT, and a forced fumble. Hardly stats of someone you'd want to retire.

Wayne beat us all. He was the savior of that game for the Colts (although hats off to Luck as well for not giving up after getting beaten up in the first half pretty badly). It wasn't Woodson's fault.
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Offline yooperfan  
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:38:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: K_Buz Go to Quoted Post
Woodson is done...D-O-N-E...DONE.

The guy came into Green Bay and gave us some good years, but you can stick a fork in him now. He's a liability out there.


I agree he looked slow old and cold in the Giants game last year.
He looks even slower this year.


Online Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:40:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Wait. How did Woodson get the goat of that game? He's been doing pretty well this year so far. In the first four games, he's got 1.5 sacks, 1 INT, and a forced fumble. Hardly stats of someone you'd want to retire.

Wayne beat us all. He was the savior of that game for the Colts (although hats off to Luck as well for not giving up after getting beaten up in the first half pretty badly). It wasn't Woodson's fault.


I think he had three passes defense too where he almost picked them. Maybe two?
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Offline Pack93z  
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:43:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I think he had three passes defense too where he almost picked them. Maybe two?


And he got away with at least a handful of defensive holding down the field.. one in the end zone.

My opinion, the Packers should have sat Williams or Shield on Wayne with a bracket over the top of Woodson someplace within the game when it was apparent he was killing them. However he even when two defender were near him he was catching the rock.. impressive catches I may add.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:52:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I think he had three passes defense too where he almost picked them. Maybe two?


Well, he would have had one INT if it wasn't for two of our defenders crashing into each other like we're the 3 Stooges.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:55:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
And he got away with at least a handful of defensive holding down the field.. one in the end zone.

My opinion, the Packers should have sat Williams or Shield on Wayne with a bracket over the top of Woodson someplace within the game when it was apparent he was killing them. However he even when two defender were near him he was catching the rock.. impressive catches I may add.


My choice ... Casey Hayward. I think he got the pick covering Reggie Wayne, lol.
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Offline DakotaT  
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 6:02:57 PM(UTC)
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With Wood you have to subtract the defensive holding calls from his big plays and calculate if you still have a great player. And I think the answer is no. You now have a once elite player that is two steps slower and is not worth the money we are paying him. There's two things I'm positive of: he cannot play corner outside on an island, and he can't even cover 2/3 of the area that Nick Collins could. We have regressed. Woodson to me is now a situational player - he should be in the subpackages and we should be getting McMillian more playing time.
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Offline shield4life  
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 6:10:38 PM(UTC)
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We need a lot more help then I had thought this off season!
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Offline StoicFire  
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 7:26:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
With Wood you have to subtract the defensive holding calls from his big plays and calculate if you still have a great player. And I think the answer is no. You now have a once elite player that is two steps slower and is not worth the money we are paying him. There's two things I'm positive of: he cannot play corner outside on an island, and he can't even cover 2/3 of the area that Nick Collins could. We have regressed. Woodson to me is now a situational player - he should be in the subpackages and we should be getting McMillian more playing time.


I still think Woodson can play, just not spectacularly in all of the situations we put him in. He may settle into the safety role fairly well with time, but as of right now I think he's playing it a little too aggressively.

I do agree though, that he is probably not worth the money we are paying him. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of contract restructuring down the road.
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Offline stevegb  
#12 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 7:45:55 PM(UTC)
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We haven't been beaten that badly by one receiver since that play-off game where Plaxico Burress beat us.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#13 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:27:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
And he got away with at least a handful of defensive holding down the field.. one in the end zone.

My opinion, the Packers should have sat Williams or Shield on Wayne with a bracket over the top of Woodson someplace within the game when it was apparent he was killing them. However he even when two defender were near him he was catching the rock.. impressive catches I may add.


Defensive Holding BS. It is called defense. Every single one of those plays he "got away with". There was just as much contact from the receiver as from Woodson. FYI. It is just as illegal for the offensive player as it is for the defensive play.

Wayne was covered and making plays on everybody. Williams, shields, Woody, Burnett you name the DB.
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Offline nerdmann  
#14 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2012 10:10:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Defensive Holding BS. It is called defense. Every single one of those plays he "got away with". There was just as much contact from the receiver as from Woodson. FYI. It is just as illegal for the offensive player as it is for the defensive play.

Wayne was covered and making plays on everybody. Williams, shields, Woody, Burnett you name the DB.


I'd really like to see them clear up the pass interference rules.
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Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:20:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: K_Buz Go to Quoted Post
Woodson is done...D-O-N-E...DONE.

The guy came into Green Bay and gave us some good years, but you can stick a fork in him now. He's a liability out there.


I am starting to have some of the same feelings about Charles Woodson. I think he is not as good at S as he is playing CB. Throw in his loss of speed to cover, and what have we got with him? I love the guy and respect the hell out of what he has brought to our team. However, his play is on the downside, and it is apparent. How many INTs has he dropped this year? More than 5? It is somewhere around there. He is holding way more because he no longer has the recovery speed. I think this is pretty plain to see.

We may need younger, faster playing speed at S opposite Morgan Burnett.
Offline play2win  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:21:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I am starting to have some of the same feelings about Charles Woodson. I think he is not as good at S as he is playing CB. Throw in his loss of speed to cover, and what have we got with him? I love the guy and respect the hell out of what he has brought to our team. However, his play is on the downside, and it is apparent. How many INTs has he dropped this year? More than 5? It is somewhere around there. He is holding way more because he no longer has the recovery speed. I think this is pretty plain to see.

We may need younger, faster playing speed at S opposite Morgan Burnett.


It doesn't help that he is the highest paid player on the Packers at over $11M this year.
Offline Pack93z  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 8:50:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Defensive Holding BS. It is called defense. Every single one of those plays he "got away with". There was just as much contact from the receiver as from Woodson. FYI. It is just as illegal for the offensive player as it is for the defensive play.

Wayne was covered and making plays on everybody. Williams, shields, Woody, Burnett you name the DB.


Hey.. I don't like the rules in the NFL these days at all.. but they are what they are. You cannot pin the receivers arm to his body or grab his jersey coming out of the break. Those are clear.

I love the way he plays the game, I really do. But the rules, currently in the NFL favor the receiver and the passing game. I wish the officials would call pass interference more evenly, but it never has been.

All I am saying is that Woodson has limitations at this point, but he is far from done. I do not like him being matched up against great receivers and up. I think he has to use the entire bag of tricks to stay with the receivers because he physically can't match their moves and breaks in and out of the routes.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 9:06:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Hey.. I don't like the rules in the NFL these days at all.. but they are what they are. You cannot pin the receivers arm to his body or grab his jersey coming out of the break. Those are clear.

I love the way he plays the game, I really do. But the rules, currently in the NFL favor the receiver and the passing game. I wish the officials would call pass interference more evenly, but it never has been.

All I am saying is that Woodson has limitations at this point, but he is far from done. I do not like him being matched up against great receivers and up. I think he has to use the entire bag of tricks to stay with the receivers because he physically can't match their moves and breaks in and out of the routes.


Yes the rules are what they are. It is illegal for offensive players to initiate contact and push to gains separation. And that applies from the snap of the ball, until the pass is touched. Every play, that is what happened.
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Offline Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 10:12:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Yes the rules are what they are. It is illegal for offensive players to initiate contact and push to gains separation. And that applies from the snap of the ball, until the pass is touched. Every play, that is what happened.


I will have to agree to disagree, was there some contact from Wayne, yes. But anything outside of the normal, which applies to the even the Packers receivers, I didn't see it.

I did see Wayne catch a ball with Woodson baring his right arm and miss one in the endzone with his arm pinned down.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Online dhazer  
#20 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 5:52:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Wait. How did Woodson get the goat of that game? He's been doing pretty well this year so far. In the first four games, he's got 1.5 sacks, 1 INT, and a forced fumble. Hardly stats of someone you'd want to retire.

Wayne beat us all. He was the savior of that game for the Colts (although hats off to Luck as well for not giving up after getting beaten up in the first half pretty badly). It wasn't Woodson's fault.


Watch the game again folks. This isn't going against you Zombie, but the reason Woodson was on Wayne alot in the second half was because Wayne made Williams look like a high school cornerback.

Wayne had 7 of his catches in the 2nd half and 5 of those were on there last drive.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#21 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2012 6:09:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
Watch the game again folks. This isn't going against you Zombie, but the reason Woodson was on Wayne alot in the second half was because Wayne made Williams look like a high school cornerback.



Oh, I agree. That's why I'm wondering why Woodson is the goat in this thread. Woodson didn't start covering Wayne until later.

Woodson had some really good coverage on some of the completions. There's only so much a DB can do when the pass is perfect and receiver is a future Hall of Famer.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 8:44:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Oh, I agree. That's why I'm wondering why Woodson is the goat in this thread. Woodson didn't start covering Wayne until later.

Woodson had some really good coverage on some of the completions. There's only so much a DB can do when the pass is perfect and receiver is a future Hall of Famer.


Just went back and rewatched the game. And stayed sober doing it.

Woodson had 4 maybe 5 passes completed against is protection. 2 to TE both he had covered and made immediate tackles. One resulting in the 4th down stand.

And two to Wayne. One being the long completion where he was flagged. And the 2nd being the pass over the middle late when Luck was under extreme pressure and somehow got the ball off for a 1st down, and Woodson had very good coverage there. They just made a play.

And the 5th was on a roll out scramble, to a deep throw down the sideline when Woodson was playing deep coverage safety. Where he almost had an INT but still made the tackle for no gain past the catch.

Those criticizing Woodson, have not really been paying attention. I wonder if it is because he is often in on the tackle of others coverage so since he is around the ball, it must be his fault.

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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:20:05 PM(UTC)
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You can go to the end of time itself blaming different players on this team. It isn't gonna change the fact that we're playing sloppy football. Fuck, I keep hearing "Fire Dom Capers" " Mike McCarthy is a horrible playcaller" I've even heard someone compare us to the Eageles dream team statement..... Just stop, it's so disrespectful. I just can't believe the Packers has gotten so much media heat this season. Yet still, this organization is the class act of the NFL. Our team has taken the situation very well including Mike McCarthy starting with the Seattle dabacale. This is why this team is so great and has gotten through tougher adversity than this shit. Overcame losing a legendary QB? Going 6-10 the first year? Then we came back and made the playoffs? But lost in overtime. Then our greatest season, we started 8-6 with 15 players hurt and everyone counted us out week after week? Then won our last 6 games and the Super Bowl. What more adversity can't we overcome? A measly 2-3 record not even half way through the season? I know Mike McCarthy will get this team going. Mike McCarthy is a straight foward man that wants to win. And, as every season goes foward the players buy into what he wants to accomplish. I have no doubt this team can beat every team on this schedule starting with the Houston Texans.

I think you need to look the whole team instead of one player.
If we didn't have Woodson this teams toughness and more importantantly mental toughness would be at an all time low.
Woodson is a leader on this team, and no matter how bad he plays it will never change what he means to this team.
Donald Driver? Where has he been this year? You know why wern't talking about his performances lacking? Because he's a leader. Treat Woodson the same way. I like what Greg Jennings said about DD, "he's our #1 reciever" That's saying a lot about his friend and teammate. This is what emotional leaders mean to this team. I don't what would happen if those guys were gone, but we'd be a whole lot different team without them.
Offline play2win  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:11:17 AM(UTC)
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Gaycandybacon, you are right about the leadership qualities Woodson brings to our team, and about the class McCarthy has shown in handling the SEA debacle, as well as his history of guiding his team through adversity.

However, I think we are all Woodson fans here. Despite that, it is perfectly reasonable to recognize his dropped INTs this season, his high penalty rate, and his loss of speed to cover downfield. I believe the latter was evident last season during the worst display of defense in NFL history. Not blaming Woodson for that '11 negative notch in the history books as we had no pass rush, but his diminished skills in deep coverage started to show. The downside of a career is just that, and I think it is clear he is there now. Happens to all of the great players in the NFL.

He is still a phenomenal ball hawk. All he needs to do is finish, and complete the INTs coming his way. He is great at anticipating those and coming away with the ball. He simply needs to finish.

Being the highest paid player on the team, he should have no problem with the scrutiny of his missed plays by Packers fans. Doesn't mean we are not his fans, or that we're not good Packer fans. We all just want to see him convert on those sure TOs (made "sure" by his jumping a route or gaining position over the receiver on a ball), and maybe play a cleaner game. The wheels may be slowing down, but his instincts are still sharp.

Now, ask yourself, are you seeing $11M worth of play out of him this season? That is a pretty huge impact on our roster. Scrutinizing his missed plays is entirely appropriate. Personally, I think he needs to be on this team, and he needs to be playing a bit better, and a bit smarter. I just want to see that happen.

I will add, he is not alone! There are far too many players not playing up to their abilities. Tramon Williams should be taking a good look in the mirror, just to name one.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:28:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Just went back and rewatched the game. And stayed sober doing it.

Woodson had 4 maybe 5 passes completed against is protection. 2 to TE both he had covered and made immediate tackles. One resulting in the 4th down stand.

And two to Wayne. One being the long completion where he was flagged. And the 2nd being the pass over the middle late when Luck was under extreme pressure and somehow got the ball off for a 1st down, and Woodson had very good coverage there. They just made a play.

And the 5th was on a roll out scramble, to a deep throw down the sideline when Woodson was playing deep coverage safety. Where he almost had an INT but still made the tackle for no gain past the catch.

Those criticizing Woodson, have not really been paying attention. I wonder if it is because he is often in on the tackle of others coverage so since he is around the ball, it must be his fault.


Thank you PackFanWithTwins. Applause
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