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Offline nerdmann  
#91 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 10:01:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
Do you guys think that Raji is overvalued as a run defender? Pickett seemed much more effective in there and even our nickel seems well equipped to step up over that with Neal and Worthy together.


Raji's not known as a run defender. He's a pass rushing NT.

Pickett is the run stuffer of the group.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
thanks Post received 2 applause.
zombieslayer on 10/15/2012(UTC), macbob on 10/15/2012(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#92 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 11:13:10 AM(UTC)
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Thought it might be interesting to see what the Texans rag had to say about the game.. some of the articles.


Source...

Quote:
QB: C-minus

Matt Schaub was under tremendous pressure from the start. He was sacked three times – the same number as the first five games. He also threw two interceptions, the same number as the first five games.

RB: F-plus

The running game averaged 3.2 yards a carry. Arian Foster scored two touchdowns but totaled only 29 yards on 17 carries. That’s a 1.7-yard average per carry. The blocking was bad way too often against the Packers’ three-man front.

WR/TE: B-minus

Andre Johnson had eight catches for 75 yards and reached the magical 10,000-yard mark. Owen Daniels and Garrett Graham, both of whom played at Wisconsin, combined for six catches for 71 yards. Nobody caught a touchdown pass.

OL: D

Matt Schaub was under too much pressure and got hit way too much. The running game averaged only 3.2 yards a carry. And the Packers were missing injured nose tackle B.J. Raji. They also lost two starting linebackers.

DL: C-plus

J.J. Watt recorded two more sacks and had four tackles for loss. They got pressure on Aaron Rodgers, but he was able to avoid it. Overall, the run blocking was good. They limited the Packers to 3.2 yards a carry.

LB: C

The linebackers contributed to the run defense that allowed 99 yards, including 3.2 yards per carry. They didn’t get burned in coverage like the secondary did. Bradie James was the leading tackler with six. They had no sacks.

DB: F-minus

You don’t give up six touchdown passes, one short of the league record, and have anybody play well. Jordy Nelson burned Johnathan Joseph. James Jones torched Kareem Jackson. Glover Quin cost them a touchdown. It was across-the-board bad.

Specialists: C-minus

Bryan Braman blocked a punt that DeVier Posey recovered in the end zone for a touchdown. They committed three penalties, including two that led to touchdowns. Shayne Graham had a 51-yard field goal and punter Donnie Jones had a 45.8-yard net.

Coaching: F

This was an embarrassing performance before a record home crowd and a national television performance. Coach Gary Kubiak’s team wasn’t ready to play on offense, defense or special teams.


Personally, I thought it was funny what Watt did with the belt thing.. so did Rodgers. I am not big on going to the showboat nonsense.. but I did chuckle about the belt thing. State Farm got their money's worth last night in the interview though.

Source..

Quote:
The Texans’ J.J. Watt is having a impressive season, more impressive than any other defensive player in the NFL, and he had another good game against the Packers with six tackles and two sacks.

Still, you have to wonder how long he spent thinking about the classless sack dance he would do after taking down Rodgers in the first half, acting as if he were ripping off a title belt and slamming it to the ground. Any time he spent thinking about it is more than he would have before the season started and too much time for Kubiak and Wade Phillips.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline steveishere  
#93 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 12:00:25 PM(UTC)
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JJ Watt copying Clay and Aarons celebrations came off as kind of weak to me because he did them both while the Texans were losing, made it seem kind of selfish IMO. I was glad to see Hayward do his salute to Houstons bench after his 2nd INT, much better timing.
Offline TexasPackerFan  
#94 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 1:20:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
JJ Watt copying Clay and Aarons celebrations came off as kind of weak to me because he did them both while the Texans were losing, made it seem kind of selfish IMO. I was glad to see Hayward do his salute to Houstons bench after his 2nd INT, much better timing.


I always enjoy it when players mock the title belt Rodgers seems to go into beast mode after that.
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#95 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 2:32:47 PM(UTC)
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I wonder Raji's place. In base I do not see his value after this past game especially considering he's not known that way. He should be a run stuffing NT right? I thought that was why he was drafted.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#96 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 2:36:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
I wonder Raji's place. In base I do not see his value after this past game especially considering he's not known that way. He should be a run stuffing NT right? I thought that was why he was drafted.


He's a decent pass rusher and provides a push up the middle on passing downs. I don't think he deserved a Pro Bowl nod last year though. He was good, but not that good.

Still, big bodies aren't exactly a dime a dozen. We could really use him.
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macbob on 10/15/2012(UTC)
Offline DarkaneRules  
#97 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 2:40:00 PM(UTC)
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Yep. And honestly he has played SO many snaps so early. Seems he lost just a little bit already. It must be tough being that big haha.
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Offline go.pack.go.  
#98 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 2:54:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
JJ Watt copying Clay and Aarons celebrations came off as kind of weak to me because he did them both while the Texans were losing, made it seem kind of selfish IMO. I was glad to see Hayward do his salute to Houstons bench after his 2nd INT, much better timing.


I noticed that James Jones did Arian Foster's TD celebration too, where he bowed down or whatever you want to call it. I was glad he did that, especially after what Watt did.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#99 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 3:11:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
Yep. And honestly he has played SO many snaps so early. Seems he lost just a little bit already. It must be tough being that big haha.


Some big guys can have long careers. Gilbert Brown played from 93-03 with us, missing the 2000 season. Ryan Pickett still plays for us and he's still good. He's been playing in the NFL since '01. I was bummed when we lost Corey Williams after the '07 season. He's still in the NFL. Grady Jackson played from '97 to '09. He was a hard man to block.

So, hopefully Raji can bounce back. Remains to be seen. In my opinion, he had his best year in 2010.

The big guy I really miss though is Cullen Jenkins. He's still on the Eagles. They definitely got their money's worth last year where he had 5.5 sacks from right up the middle.
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macbob on 10/15/2012(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#100 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 3:35:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
He's a decent pass rusher and provides a push up the middle on passing downs. I don't think he deserved a Pro Bowl nod last year though. He was good, but not that good.

Still, big bodies aren't exactly a dime a dozen. We could really use him.


Ya agreed, I think he should of went in 10' more so than last year.
Offline Rios39  
#101 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 4:29:40 PM(UTC)
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One has to ask though if we are actually better off with Pickett at NT. Usually the NT is known for getting a bit of push but mostly swallowing the run game. Last night was the most dominant we have been against the run. Last year we were "ok" against the run in 2010 with Raji at NT we did not do the best verse the run but had a great pass rush, in 2009 with Pickett at NT I believe we gave up the least amount of rushing yards in football.

If he's not going to be sucking up the middle of the field on run downs and his pass rush is "good" not great, maybe it's time to move him into the DE area and see if he can get some favorable matchups that way.

I guess we will see how he looks when he gets back. Our push up the middle was ok, our rush up the field was great but I've never seen the line of scrimmage get pushed so consistently into the offense side of the field against a quality team, so frequently. While playing on the road where you don't really get a jump on the snap.
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Offline macbob  
#102 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 6:46:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Sort of sarcastic.

This is more of a response to the "we need a good RB" myth that has been harped on consistently by football fans. We don't need a "good" RB. We just need NFL caliber RBs, which means somewhere in the top 100 of the position. Yes, that's all we really need.

A good OL should open up the holes where any of the top 100 RBs in the NFL could get 3+ ypc, and that's pretty much all you need. Top $$$ should be spent on D, as from my research, D wins Championships, and secondary in importance is an elite QB. RBs don't matter, and don't even figure in the equation of who wins Championships.

Through my research, I found I was wrong about the %s of pass/run. I thought we could go 65/35. You can't do that all season long. High 50s is about the right %. And too much rushing (50% or more) is also a bad thing.

In the game last night, we got to see Green get 22 carries. The 67 yards would actually be considered "mediocre," but that's fine. Mediocre RBs are ideal as like I've said, the yards don't matter. All that matters are the carries.

You'll get the yards if you have a decent OL. Benson, Green, Starks, Ryan Grant, and probably Brandon Seine could all be thrown back there and the game results will be the same.

Green did what he was supposed to do - hold on to the football and get 3+ ypc. That's it. That's all you really need from a RB.

From a Packers' perspective, bonus if the RB can catch passes and block.


Zombie--a truly awesome post. Only two things I would have said slightly differently:

1) Top 100 RB is a 3rd stringer on the worst team in the NFL. I think you need a little higher quality than that for your starter, but agree 100% that there are better things to spend your $$ on than an elite RB.

2) Attempts/carries matter most, but yards do matter. If everytime you run you get -2 yds the defense isn't going to honor the run as much as if you get 7 yds per carry. You don't need to lead the league in rushing, but need to have a certain level of success, and I think 3 yds per carry is probably about the minimum you need to keep the D honest.

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wpr on 10/15/2012(UTC), zombieslayer on 10/15/2012(UTC)
Offline macbob  
#103 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 6:49:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
Do you guys think that Raji is overvalued as a run defender? Pickett seemed much more effective in there and even our nickel seems well equipped to step up over that with Neal and Worthy together.


I like Pickett moved back to NT--that's his natural position--and Raji playing DE. Think we're a better line when we're like that. Move Raji inside on obvious passing downs, but otherwise we'd have Perry and Raji over on the opposite side of CM3, and I think that would give an offense all kinds of fits.
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Offline DakotaT  
#104 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 6:56:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Raji's not known as a run defender. He's a pass rushing NT.

Pickett is the run stuffer of the group.


They should just let Pickett play the nose and then bring Raji in with Worthy when they want to rush 4.

We play some funky formations and are very rarely in our 3-4 base. What I think is stupid is playing Pickett at end. It makes no fucking sense, especially when C.J. Wilson and Neal are playing better.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#105 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2012 7:14:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
Zombie--a truly awesome post. Only two things I would have said slightly differently:

1) Top 100 RB is a 3rd stringer on the worst team in the NFL. I think you need a little higher quality than that for your starter, but agree 100% that there are better things to spend your $$ on than an elite RB.

2) Attempts/carries matter most, but yards do matter. If everytime you run you get -2 yds the defense isn't going to honor the run as much as if you get 7 yds per carry. You don't need to lead the league in rushing, but need to have a certain level of success, and I think 3 yds per carry is probably about the minimum you need to keep the D honest.

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Thanks Macbob. Almost brought a tear to my eye. Love Love

1) OK, maybe top 50 would be better. And don't get me wrong. I don't hate RBs. My favorite non-Packer ever was Wallie Payton. My favorite non-Packer today is Adrian Peterson. This is just what the research has been telling me.

2) Well, only a real bad back is gonna get -2 yards a carry. Even a 3rd string RB should get you at least 2.5 ypc. Unless of course your OL sucks and in that case, your QB is probably dead anyways and you won't get that far, even with an elite D. You still need some offense.

But you really don't need success. There is no historical difference since the 80s (it takes forever to sift through stats so I don't go back very far) between having the #1 rushing team and the #20 rushing team. The stand out elite rushing team who was dominant were the 90s Cows and the 90s Broncos. But there have been so many really bad teams at running the ball who have won Championships that they statistically even out the 90s Broncos and Cows.

So once again, in importance is:
1) elite D,
2) elite QB

And that's pretty much it. Of course a real bad OL gets your QB killed so that's somewhere up there in importance.


EDIT: Just in case you were wondering (which I'm sure you were) how our recent SB winning teams were in rushing, here ya go:
1996 Packers - Out of 30 teams, 14th in attempts, 11 in yards, 19th in TDs
2010 Packers - Out of 32 teams, 20th in attempts, 24th in yards, 19th in TDs

To be honest, I was surprised we ran that well in 1996. I thought we'd be in the bottom 10. But then I forgot that we had a dual RB system that year.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
thanks Post received 1 applause.
macbob on 10/15/2012(UTC)
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